I am typically a DM, but for once I am playing a pc in a friends campaign. A situation occurred that set off my DM rules senses and am looking to make sure I am not "misinterpreting" a situation.
The situation is that a group of lv 1 pc's are in a 5ft foot wide alleyway, that is 20ft high and very long. a typical overgrown city back ally. They are attacked from behind and from the roofs of the 20ft high buildings. Combat begins and the enemies on the roof start throwing/swinging grappling hook like weapons down from the roof and hooking Pc's up. The DM ruled that after an attack hit, the hook was snagged into the pc, there was an opposed strength check (they had a additional +4 from height and two people pulling) to see if they could hoist you up the side of the wall. Once this happened they then puled the pc up 10ft a round.
One of the players got hooked and was being dragged up, she was already out of spells from fighting 12+ minions and didn't have a slashing weapon to cut the rope, so was quickly on her way to being surrounded and beaten to death onto of the building.
Now my question comes from what one of the other players did. she playing a ninja with a very high Dex, attempted to make a acrobatics check to spring board up the wall like parkour, and then attack the rope to save the suspending hooked character who was 10ft off the ground. She rolled well and got a 24 total. What happened next was an disagreement over acrobatics rules, as we could fine no ruling for this kind of check the DM ruled that it was a standing high jump, so 10ft x 4=40 then x2 for not having a running start, so an 80 dc. While I know this is RAW by definition of they type of jump the DM ruled it as, but I thought I remember a rule for this kind of check somewhere, possibly in a feat. I just think an 80 dc is a bit extreme for a 5ft wide multiple bounding jump that is only 10ft high. Now I know a climb check would have been easier, but the walls of the buildings in this rundown city are all stucco and apparently incredibly smooth and have no crumbling parts.
Any idea where this rule might be? A possible different way of interpreting the situation, or how you would have ruled it?
Thank you for your time.
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It's correct that the DC for a high jump is the distance in feet times four. However, that's the distance to be traveled:
Target is 10ft up: presumably this means that there is a 10ft gap between the target's feet and the ground - in terms of squares, there are two empty ones beneath the one occupied by the target.
The jumper is (if Medium) approximately 5ft tall (fills the bottom square). The jumper also has 5ft reach (able to reach the second square up, the one directly above him).
The jumper therefore only needs a 5ft high jump to get into that second square such that the target will be within his 5ft reach.
The DC would then be 5ft x 4 = DC 20. But if you don't have a running start of at least 10ft (or a special ability to negate this rule, such as the ninja having at least 1 ki point in her pool), the DC is doubled (becoming 40).
So the DC should have been 40, or 20 if the ninja had a ki point remaining or room to get a running start.
So is there no rule for jumping say 5ft across without a running start (dc 10), with a vertical height of 2ft (dc 16), multiple times in a quick succession like parkour or any action movie nowadays has?
Calculate distance height. Calculate height of nearest barbarian/fighter/paladin/character with a str over 12 bent over at waist. Stand on character. Cut rope. Look at dm and wonder about 80DC standing jump.
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So is there no rule for jumping say 5ft across without a running start (dc 10), with a vertical height of 2ft (dc 16), multiple times in a quick succession like parkour or any action movie nowadays has?
For the back-and-forth wall jump? Not that I know of.
Calculate distance height. Calculate height of nearest barbarian/fighter/paladin/character with a STR over 12 bent over at waist. Stand on character. Cut rope. Look at dm and wonder about 80DC standing jump.
This +1
As for the Rule I thought it was covered by spider step feat, but I was just remembering it wrong. It really seems there should be a rule in the game for springing or jumping off something. It's not quite climb, and yet not nearly as hard as the acrobatic check makes it, I see kids at the school i work at jump between bars and easy get 6-7 feet high.
I think there should be a feat for it, but I suspect that they're trying to cover it by give certain classes boosts to acrobatics such as monk and ninja exclusively.
Ninjas are always considered to have a running start as long as they have one ki point left. If she gave away her last ki point, its really her fault. One should never ever do that.
Then, to jump 10' from stand the DC is 40, not 80.
Acrobatics:
The base DC to make a jump is equal to the distance to be crossed (if horizontal) or four times the height to be reached (if vertical). These DCs double if you do not have at least 10 feet of space to get a running start.
Therefore, with one ki point and a running jump the DC would have been 10.
Its a supernatural ability and she doesnt need 10' for the running start.
At level 10 the DC for her would only be 5.
Also there are two ninja tricks, one to get +20 on acrobativs checks and one to hald the DC ;)
Jumping is a ninja iconic ability.
Everybody else seems to have a good hand on the rules question regarding the Acrobatics check. So I will focus my own GM-sense on this whole bit about being out of spells after having taken on 12+ minions, only to find yourselves in a narrow alley where hordes of idiots on the roof can throw hooks down into the bodies of party members, with intent to haul them up one-at-a-time for a quick and brutal death. All at 1st level!
Now, for the sake of letting this sink in, I will repeat that:
Your guys were out of spells after having taken on 12+ minions, only to find yourselves in a narrow alley where hordes of idiots on the roof were throwing hooks down into the bodies of party members, with intent to haul them up one-at-a-time for a quick and brutal death. And your GM considered this a reasonable challenge for a 1ST LEVEL PARTY.
It sounds exciting, no doubt. But I think your GM may be pulling a classic premature attackulation. He had a great idea that really is better for a higher-level party, but couldn't hold back from shooting it at you now.
Ok i was wrong actually i see.
Without any ki points left the DC would actually be 80.
And Ninjas don´t have a ki pool at level 1.
You could argue that jumping from one side to the other in a 5' alley would give you a bonus on your roll.
But then, i faintly remember some rules about 5' alleys -
and i think i know what you meant Seer, but that is all in the climb rules unfortunately.
I understand the monk and ninja ability's later on, my concern is not just for those classes, but say a rogue, ranger or barb or really any class. There should be an application for acrobatics that covers bounding off walls. I cannot even name all the action movies that have a hero or even a low level thief bounding up walls, fences, alleyways, and back flips off walls. This kind of action should not be equated with swimming up a waterfall or climbing mount Everest with no gear. So no rules anywhere? maybe I'm remembering something from 3.5?
Not even looking at the acrobatic for a moment. I am curious on those weapons (looks like a great one to use on PC's).
Did they go off of CMD checks to drag characters up?
No he was using them as an attack roll, then an opposed STR check to start pulling. It's his first time running in pathfinder, he has been using 3.5 for a long time. It did 1d4 points of damage.
In Golarion such things are calledAklys.
Since they have the trip quality, they can be used for other combat maneuver stuff. Im not sure if the DM knew that.
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Basically at 1st level the double jump isn't a feasible stunt. This absolutely requires a feat, class ability, or magic item to pull off.
I do however fault your GM for throwing such an overpowered encounter at you. Not only are you depleted but you don't have the abilities to counter such an ambush. OTOH, this might just lead you to a Story based conclusion. Perhaps you'll be knocked unconscious with non lethal damage and taken before some nefarious NPC with some blackmail scheme?
I know a PC never likes to lose a battle but once in a while it might be interesting to see what your GM might have up their sleeve (or can pull from their butt)!
--Vrock wall