| Liam Warner |
I just got a look at the Kitsune and I personally am not happy with the shapechanging. I mean this in a purely personal context of things like thinking of them as shapechanging animals not humanoids and giving up a rare feat for that bothered me. So I put together an alternate method for houseruling in my game and I'd appreciate feedback from more experienced people. Is it good, bad, should I change things because its overpowered. I'm posting from my mobile and I'll post more details later. Flavour text and the like.
I'm using a skill, shapechange, currently Kitsune only with various DC'S as follows.
Change Shape.
A kitsune can become a human, hybrid or fox by making a DC 15 skill check. Failure of 5 or less means the change is incomplete e.g. retaining a fox's tail, ears or paw. Failure by 6 to 10 means that only part of the change took e.g. a paw becoming a hand or the muzzle becoming a pair of human lips, GM determines what changes or doesn't for both categories. Failure of 11+ means the Kitsune failed to maintain the focus necessary and remains in their current form.
Partial Change
Experienced Kitsune can with a DC 25 check can deliberately change only specific elements of their form e.g. becoming a fox with their human mass or changing one paw into a hand to unlock something. Failure same as above for consequences.
Alternate Form
The oldest and most powerful Kitsune are even said to be able to assume a form other than their own altering their features, colouring and even sex so as to appear as a different person possibly even a specific one. DC 35 check with the same consequences as above. If attempting to immitate a specific person they also need to make disguise and/or bluff checks as normal.
| Warclam |
I like this. I don't have the book with the Kitsune shapeshifting feats, but when I read about the race on d20pfsrd I found needing feats to become, say, a full fox, to be somewhat disappointing. Making it a skill check brings some resource consumption back into it, but without sucking up anything as precious as feats.
There are a few things that need to be cleared up, though. How long does this shapeshifting take? A minute? 1d3 × 10 minutes, like the disguise skill? If you fail, can you just try again? If so, that makes failing kinda pointless, unless it takes a while. Also, is it considered a class skill for kitsune? If so, it might result in these skill checks being too easy. What ability is affiliated? Wisdom, like the old were-creature control form skill?
It looks good to me, though, just needs some mechanical loose ends tidied up before it can be properly evaluated.
| Liam Warner |
I like this. I don't have the book with the Kitsune shapeshifting feats, but when I read about the race on d20pfsrd I found needing feats to become, say, a full fox, to be somewhat disappointing. Making it a skill check brings some resource consumption back into it, but without sucking up anything as precious as feats.
There are a few things that need to be cleared up, though. How long does this shapeshifting take? A minute? 1d3 × 10 minutes, like the disguise skill? If you fail, can you just try again? If so, that makes failing kinda pointless, unless it takes a while. Also, is it considered a class skill for kitsune? If so, it might result in these skill checks being too easy. What ability is affiliated? Wisdom, like the old were-creature control form skill?
It looks good to me, though, just needs some mechanical loose ends tidied up before it can be properly evaluated.
Sorry about the delay I missed your reply. To answer your questions,
Q: How long does the shapeshifting take?
A: It takes a variable amount of time depending on the complexity.
Base Forms (human, fox, hybrid) take 1 standard action.
Partial Forms (a paw to hand for instance) take 1 round.
Alternate Forms (a cat for example) takes 1d4 + 1 (2-5) rounds.
Q2: Can you try again if you fail?
A2" If you fail yes you can try again but you have to wait a period of time based on the degree of failure. I'm not sure what's reasonable though right now I'm leaing towards either 5 or 10 minutes * the degree of failure so if you failed by 4 you'd have to wait 20 or 40 minutes for recovery and trying to figure out where you went wrong in your attempt.
You can also take 10 and 20, taking 20 assumes your working to achieve a specific form and assumes you fail a number of times. It would thus would take a minimum of the DC times faillure time. For exmaple if failure time was 5 minutes per degree of failure and you took 20 to achieve a partial change DC 25 the time it would take is 5 times 25 divided by 60 or 2 hours. Which means its useful if you have time to wait but if you need it now you take the risk of rolling as its a lot quicker.
Q3: Is it a class skill?
A3: Yes its a class skill for Kitsune and other shapechanging races that are or will be out there, it can also be used untrained but only by a being that posseses an alternate form e.g. no humans or elves.
Q4: Might that make it too easy to hit the DC's?
A4: Maybe that's why I made them so high right now even assuming a +4 bonus from the associated ability you need a minimum level of 1- to get the alternate forms and while you can make the lower checks at level 1 it requires a 20 on the dice for the second one. That is DC 15 - ability - rank = 10 a 50/50 chance or taking 10 to change properly with your base forms at first level, DC 25 - ability - rank = 20 you need a natural 20 or to spend a long period of time changing a pariticular body part at 1st level, DC 35 - ability - rank = 30 impossible until 10th level which is about as high as most people go.
Q5: What ability is affiliated?
A5: I was thinking wisdom or charisma. Wisdom fits flavour wise as its about common sense and focus. Charisma is also a possibility however as Kitsune get a bonus that and its generally meant to represent force of personality.
Thanks for the feedback.
| Liam Warner |
The rest of us are waiting on the Advanced Race Guide... ???
I expect they'll handle it the same way they did in the dragon empires primer. You get a base form change and then spend feats to purchase "extra" forms all of which works ala the alter self spell. Which is why I'm trying to put together this one.