| 2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |
This is probably late and has already been asked, but I’ve thought back and forth about the Flurry of Blows and I can’t decide which way it’s supposed to work.
Option 1: The modifications that FoB applies to a Monk’s full attack action apply in all circumstances.
Example 1A: A 20th level Monk with one (1) temple sword (and interspersing no attacks by any other weapon, including his unarmed strikes, into the FoB) makes an FoB like so: +18, +18, +13, +13, +8, +8, +3. He gains additional attacks a la TWF, despite the fact that there is no second weapon, taking the listed penalties for TWF, despite the only weapon involved being a one-handed (that is, not a light) weapon.
Example 1B: A 20th level Monk with two (2) temple swords (that is, two one-handed weapons with no light weapons involved) makes an FoB like so: +18, +18, +13, +13, +8, +8, +3. TWF with two one-handed weapons gives you a -4 penalty to attack rolls, not the -2 factored into the Monk’s FoB, but the Monk gets to ignore this because he makes his additional attacks using “any combination of unarmed strikes or attacks with a special monk weapon … as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat.”
Example 1C: A 20th level Monk with two nunchucks can make an FoB with some attacks by one of the nunchucks in the FoB sequence, some attacks by the other nunchuck, and some attacks with his unarmed strikes. This would technically be Three-Weapon Fighting, but the Monk gets to do this because it’s “any combination” made “as if” using TWF.
Option 2: The modifications that FoB applies to the Monk’s full attack action apply separately.
Example 2A: A 20th level Monk attacking with one (1) temple sword (and adding no additional attacks from any source) makes an FoB like so: +20, +15, +10, +5. He does not gain additional attacks because only one weapon is involved. On the other hand, the attacks he does get take no penalty because only one weapon is involved.
Example 2B: A 20th level Monk attacking with two (2) temple swords (two one-handed weapons) makes an FoB like so: +16, +16, +11, +11, +6, +6, +1. This uses the penalties for TWF with one-handed weapons, not the penalties for TWF with a light weapon involved, as assumed by Table 3-10: Monk.
Example 2C: A 20th level Monk wielding any two weapons (and, of course, having his unarmed strikes available to him) must pick two of the weapons to attack with, since adding a third results in Three-Weapon-Fighting, which he doesn’t actually get from FoB.
Which way do you think it works? Based on the way the Zen Archer’s FoB works (in that, the “as if you have TWF” part of the regular FoB was not replaced by the Zen Archer’s FoB, which “otherwise functions as normal for a Monk of his level”), I’m leaning towards the first.
...
Incidentally, I flat-out do not buy into the notion of character being incapable of TWF using just their unarmed strikes (that is to say, their left and right fists (plural)), so please do not use that as a talking point, because it doesn’t make sense to me in the remotest.
Definitely the first. Not sure if it lets him ignore the penalties for fighting with two one-handed weapons, but he could very definitely make all the extra attacks with one weapon, or with any combination of weapons in hand and his unarmed strike.
I think you are over complicating the situation....
A monk can attack, as a full round action, using either his normal Base Attack Bonus (+15/+10/+5) or his Flurry of Blows (+18/+18/+13/+13/+8/+8/+3) if he is unarmed or wielding a monk weapon. If he uses Flurry of Blows, this already takes into account two weapon fighting gains and penalties (as per the text describing it)
If he chooses to attack Flurry of Blows, he can take any combination of attacks that he likes with his weapon and unarmed strikes. Meaning, he could go: sword, headbutt, foot, sword, sword, foot, sword as an example.
Basically, flurry of blows is telling you "Monks can two wield, but they are cooler at it than others, assuming they use their fists or monk approved weapons. In that case, use these numbers for attacking."
Does that help clarify?
Option 1: The modifications that FoB applies to a Monk’s full attack action apply in all circumstances.
Yes.
Example 1A: A 20th level Monk with one (1) temple sword (and interspersing no attacks by any other weapon, including his unarmed strikes, into the FoB) makes an FoB like so: +18, +18, +13, +13, +8, +8, +3. He gains additional attacks a la TWF, despite the fact that there is no second weapon, taking the listed penalties for TWF, despite the only weapon involved being a one-handed (that is, not a light) weapon.
Flurry of blows is not two weapon fighting; it is only mechanically similar. Yes, you may flurry with a single weapon.
Example 1B: A 20th level Monk with two (2) temple swords (that is, two one-handed weapons with no light weapons involved) makes an FoB like so: +18, +18, +13, +13, +8, +8, +3. TWF with two one-handed weapons gives you a -4 penalty to attack rolls, not the -2 factored into the Monk’s FoB, but the Monk gets to ignore this because he makes his additional attacks using “any combination of unarmed strikes or attacks with a special monk weapon … as if using the Two-Weapon Fighting feat.”
Once again, yes. Ony the penalties from flurry apply to flurry when using unarmed strikes or monk approved weapons.
Example 1C: A 20th level Monk with two nunchucks can make an FoB with some attacks by one of the nunchucks in the FoB sequence, some attacks by the other nunchuck, and some attacks with his unarmed strikes. This would technically be Three-Weapon Fighting, but the Monk gets to do this because it’s “any combination” made “as if” using TWF.
Yes. Taking the example to the extreme, you could use a temple sword, a nunchuck, or an unarmed strike in any combination. None of the weapons would count as off-hand attacks, and all would receive the full strength modifier of the monk. Also note, if you are using a two-handed monk weapon (such as a quarterstaff), you still receive your Str modifier and not your Str mod times 1.5.
Option 2: The modifications that FoB applies to the Monk’s full attack action apply separately.
Nope Option 1 is correct.
Example 2A: A 20th level Monk attacking with one (1) temple sword (and adding no additional attacks from any source) makes an FoB like so: +20, +15, +10, +5. He does not gain additional attacks because only one weapon is involved. On the other hand, the attacks he does get take no penalty because only one weapon is involved.
No. Only the flurry penalties apply and these ALWAYS apply, even if just one weapon is wielded.
Example 2B: A 20th level Monk attacking with two (2) temple swords (two one-handed weapons) makes an FoB like so: +16, +16, +11, +11, +6, +6, +1. This uses the penalties for TWF with one-handed weapons, not the penalties for TWF with a light weapon involved, as assumed by Table 3-10: Monk.
Nope. It is good to be a monk, eh?
Example 2C: A 20th level Monk wielding any two weapons (and, of course, having his unarmed strikes available to him) must pick two of the weapons to attack with, since adding a third results in Three-Weapon-Fighting, which he doesn’t actually get from FoB.
Nope. Flurry is not two-weapon fighting. It only resembles it.
Incidentally, I flat-out do not buy into the notion of character being incapable of TWF using just their unarmed strikes (that is to say, their left and right fists (plural)), so please do not use that as a talking point, because it doesn’t make sense to me in the remotest.
An unarmed strike is ONE weapon. A monk (or other character using an unarmed strike) can make an attack, or multiple attacks with unarmed strike with different fluff (right fist, left kick, etc.) but it remains a single weapon.
Master Arminas
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Flurry of Blows takes the entire Two-Weapon Fighting line, and condenses it into one Superfeat, and you have the same bonuses and negatives of an equivalent level fighter using Greater Two Weapon Fighting. Whether or not you are using a "single weapon," (i.e., a single Temple sword, or a quarterstaff held in both hands) or no weapon at all, is mechanically irrelevant to the ability; Flurry of Blows both assumes and penalizes as though you are always fighting with a secondary, light weapon, because a monk's body is that secondary weapon.
For example, a monk using a quarterstaff (a two-handed weapon) could block an incoming attack with his staff, and then deliver a kick in order to give himself room to make a follow-up strike with both ends of the staff.
Likewise, a completely unarmed monk might deliver a chop to the wrist (disarm attack), a knee to the kidneys, follow up with an elbow to the face, and then sweep your legs with a kick (trip attack).
Yes, one could claim an armed monk mechanically is just bashing with the same weapon seven times; the rules certainly grant you that option. But the spirit behind the mechanic is that you are a vastly superior two-weapon fighter who can attack with any limb, and can never truly be caught unarmed or be disarmed, unlike a TWF-using Fighter, who is mechanically limited to strictly what he is holding in his right and left hands. Just like you might expect from a kung fu movie, your monk become a virtual whirlwind (one might even say a flurry) of kicks, punches, sword swipes, elbow strikes and flying knees.
For comparison's sake, a 20th level fighter with the entire TWF line will have an attack chain like this:
Main hand: 20/15/10/5
Off hand: 20/15/10
Assuming that fighter is using a light weapon in his off-hand, you apply standard two-weapon penalties of -2/-2 to all attacks, and his chain now looks like this:
18 / 13 / 8 / 3
18 / 13 / 8
18, 18, 13, 13, 8, 8, 3. Identical to a 20th monk's flurry chart.
18 / 13 / 8 / 3
18 / 13 / 8
so does this mean he gets 4 attacks with main hand and 3 with off hand?
im a lv.6 monk / lv.4 ninja.
so at lv 6., with +4/+4/-1
+4/-1
+4
how many attacks do I get?
and bab=monk lv would be 6 right? his str bonus is 4.
2 sais (one in each hand)
so how many attacks and what would be the damage?
im neew to pf and really confused here