Goblin Squad Member
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So we know generally where we're gonna live, how we're gonna live and how we're gonna die. We've discussed, we've argued. So, what excites you about the prospects so far? Exploring content? Starting a settlement? Opening a business? Running around robbin' fools? Whatever? I'm most excited about being able to really specialize my character. I'm not talking about the 'holy trinity'-I mean really make my guy exactly how I want him. It always bothered me walking around Shattrath City in WOW with my raid gear, a set from the arena, and the highest dps cloth a player could make himself and then see, well, the exact same guy, different race maybe. Over and over. So, more arena and join bigger raids? God it got boring, for my friends too. In PFO, they will start with 11 archetypes with all the requisite options and then skills anyone can learn, it seems. With multiclassing, you can be pretty unique, suited to the role you want to play. Relatively speaking, of course. I'm thinking Monk/Sorcerer or Monk/Cleric. Start a family guild or join one. Maybe be a bounty hunter or hired guard. What do you say?
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm definitely making at least two characters, maybe more; so many ideas bouncing around in my head.
One will be... I haven't decided yet; either a human sorcerer or a dwarf monk. He'll be my main adventurer, whose goal it is to explore the land and see what he can see. Maybe join a guild if he feels like it.
Another would be my merchant/crafter; I'm thinking Booster Terrik meets Torneko Taloon; a combat-averse businessman, but capable of driving a hard bargain on a good deal.
And whenever they add the APG archetypes (oh come on, they have to at some point), I'm definitely making a kobold alchemist. On that note, if you can't play as most, if not all, of the humanoid races, I'll be sad.
I might also have my main become a sailor, if they include water travel. Become a guardsman for a merchant fleet, or maybe become a privateer.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Building a settlement, even if it's just a small village that doesn't have enough wealth to make it worth anyone's time to pillage.
That, and being a Paladin...
One of my favorite posts in SWTOR forums (where I'm nowhere near as prolific as I am here, this is really a unique experience for me being this active in any forums, and is wholly due to the indescribable excitement I feel about PFO that is unlike anything I've felt since I first heard about Vanguard, and don't get me started on how heart-breaking it was to finally give up on that game) was in one of those typical threads you see along the lines of "Jedi Knights are worthless" where everyone describes how the developers are fools and don't see how obviously broken Jedi Knights are because they're... 0.7 dps lower than some other class at end-game, or whatever. Anyway, the post simply states something along the lines of "Yeah, but Jedi Knights get a Light Saber, and get to save the universe!"
I'm really excited to play a Paladin :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm intrigued by the idea of how player driven this game will be, both PVP and economy wise. I usually like the darker characters, so I'll probably play a bounty hunter/assassin/sniper of some kind. With or without magic, remains to be seen. Maybe when we hear more about how combat will work, I'll have a better idea.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm starting to get the impression that Ryan has visited people and literaly peed in their Wheaties...
I get the impression some people are more swayed by gossip and rumor than others, and don't have any compunction about saying incredibly rude things in forums that would rightly get them punched in the face if they said them face-to-face.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Actually playing a sandbox game. I have never played one before. Was always scared by the non-consensual PvP aspect. I am not a twitch gamer.
I have played WoW then LOTRO and now SW:TOR.
I always do crafting in my MMOs. It will be fascinating if GW makes a game where crafting is interesting and important. In themepark MMOs crafting provides some decent stuff up until level cap. That has always been disappointing.
I had my first experience with player housing in LOTRO. It could have been so much more. I have no idea if this is even in the works, but the idea of being able to build the house I want and decorate it how I want is intriguing.
And beyond player houses there is the potential to build a player city. So yeah, there are a few things I am looking forward to that has me looking past my past apprehension toward sandbox games.
I hope food plays a role, especially with such a dynamic market. Why?
Cause I want a character that essentially just hunts, be it for a guild or a settlement or whatever needs food... I want to be one of the guys that gets it for them.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm starting to get the impression that Ryan has visited people and literaly peed in their Wheaties...
I get the impression some people are more swayed by gossip and rumor than others, and don't have any compunction about saying incredibly rude things in forums that would rightly get them punched in the face if they said them face-to-face.
Pretty much my point, actually. People are taking what he may or may not have done personaly.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I always do crafting in my MMOs. It will be fascinating if GW makes a game where crafting is interesting and important.
I always thought crafting should basically allow you to spend a little extra time up-front, before adventuring, to make your adventuring easier. If you wanted more of a challenge, you could forego crafting and just adventure. If you wanted to have an easier time doing the suggested content, or maybe even have a shot at doing higher-than-expected content, you'd craft yourself or buy crafted goods.
Since PFO will not have much in the way of "suggested content" for a given level, I'm very hopeful that they'll make cost rather than level requirements be the deciding factor. I'd like the option of outfitting my lowbie in the same gear that a max-level adventurer would wear if they were starting out fresh again.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Cause I want a character that essentially just hunts...
This reminds me of one of the most successful aspects of Star Wars Galaxies' economy, at least from my perspective. Doc classes could make buffs that really put you in a separate game entirely, not just buffing you by +10% or something, but actually buffing you something along the lines of 10 times your previous stat. To create those, they needed large quantities of mats. My friends would go out in large groups and kill and harvest large herds of animals to fill those needs. That was fun, and quite lucrative.
I would love to see an opportunity to do that kind of cooperative farming, where having large groups working on it had a real benefit, maybe not in amount harvested, but at least in time to harvest.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am excited for the real darkness!...oh wait...
Just kidding...I am actually excited about playing with the type of people I hope this game will draw. People who are not danger adverse but are also interested in being creative and think about their actions.
And...I have high hopes for a crafting system.
My biggest excitement though, is the hope that my people (guild/clan/town/friends that I play with) and I will be able to creatively and originally shape our tiny corner of Golarion. Yeah, that is definitely what I am here for.
Cause I want a character that essentially just hunts...This reminds me of one of the most successful aspects of Star Wars Galaxies' economy, at least from my perspective. Doc classes could make buffs that really put you in a separate game entirely, not just buffing you by +10% or something, but actually buffing you something along the lines of 10 times your previous stat. To create those, they needed large quantities of mats. My friends would go out in large groups and kill and harvest large herds of animals to fill those needs. That was fun, and quite lucrative.
I would love to see an opportunity to do that kind of cooperative farming, where having large groups working on it had a real benefit, maybe not in amount harvested, but at least in time to harvest.
I don't know... I like the idea of simplistic food benefits - faster health regeneration for example, or a cure for a hunger debuff. Rarer animals should maybe have more extravagant food capable of awesome buffs. I'd like to play that type of hunter. Venison? Nah, I'll be hunting for some nice unicorn or pegasus meat, something people will be paying for and that hopefully people will try to take from me so I can have excitement on my trip back to town or to whoever ordered it.
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I like mabinogi's crafting the best, it could be better but at the end you can play a minigame that affects how well made the item is. The breadth of options is nice too, cooking tailoring fishing smithing music each dividing into subcrafting skills(music has composing and playing as seperate skills for example)
Although I want to remake my kobald mnk/rog/sorc and hit someone with a snk atk/shocking grasp/ stunning fist combo. I did this on pnp but to do it on an mmowould be amazing.
Its sad I won't be able to recreate my best atk ever though, I had a cleric and we had a prison campaign(the best campaign I have ever played) and a lich walked into the room, I asked to atk the lich and channel all my essence into positive energy into the lich even if I died(this was a 3.5 game before pathfinder, btw) the lich ran from the room with 2 hp. The lich was like 10 lvls higher then me, that was probably the coolest thing ever even though I fell 2 hp short. If that could be done on mmo I would die of excitement.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ah, you guys are already giving me too many ideas... promise not to steal 'em. I think almost everybody will start a main and alt combo; the crafter will compliment the other build and also go bowling for cash. Wish we new how many characters allowed per player in the first 4,500 tho.
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What excites me? Massive cohesive player run virtual world. Meaningful unrestricted and risky gameplay. Unrestricted character development. Meaningful crafting and economy. Meaningful RP opportunities.
Haven't been this excited about a game in along time.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Very much anticipating:
Specializing my character
Specializing equipment and gear
Exploration of the game world - with danger!
Interaction with different players and NPCs (factions, reactions, unique quests, etc)
Creating my own niche in the world, be it a small home or market stand to sell my wares..all in a sandbox world
Crafting somewhat, but the method isn't a big deal just as long as it doesn't get overly simplified like WoW. I'm more excited about the challenge of making rare items
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Goblin Squad Member
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Ditto Saryx. The chance to go out and MAKE A UNIQUE CHARACTER, have them grow and change and ~live~ in their world.
Probably make a Half-Orc of some description (Oh Surprise Surprise, says the boards), the build itself dependant upon being able to find people on at Australia time, but likely either Fighter, Barbarian, Rogue or Ranger, most likely. Maybe Cleric if I find my ass getting beaten to a pulp without healing >_>
But mostly being able to go, find a nice spot, claim it, build on it and make a Farm of some kind, being able to breed horses or livestock in addition to going out and playing the good old game of Punt-The-Goblin. Being able to do something constructive with my time in-game other than going out and collecting 50 buzzard asses for a static NPC.
And arguably most importantly after playing WoW for 6 years ..... Playing with other Table-Top Roleplayers who will hopefully have enough maturity that I won't want to stuff them into a barrel and throw them off a cliff after five minutes.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Being in a dynamic world that actually changes according to the actions of the players. Finally escaping the Greek Hell of Sysiphus pushing that same rock up that same hill day after day.
When I kill Tim the Sorcerer, I don't ever want to see Tim the Sorcerer standing around in the world again, unless he's actually be resurrected. I most certainly don't want to watch someone else kill him then stand around for 3 minutes waiting for my turn to kill him. I'm not 100% sure PFO will avoid this; any developer-created content at all will likely result in some special "named" mobs that we'll be able to kill repeatedly, but I would sure love it if they could avoid this.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Being in a dynamic world that actually changes according to the actions of the players. Finally escaping the Greek Hell of Sysiphus pushing that same rock up that same hill day after day.
When I kill Tim the Sorcerer, I don't ever want to see Tim the Sorcerer standing around in the world again, unless he's actually be resurrected. I most certainly don't want to watch someone else kill him then stand around for 3 minutes waiting for my turn to kill him. I'm not 100% sure PFO will avoid this; any developer-created content at all will likely result in some special "named" mobs that we'll be able to kill repeatedly, but I would sure love it if they could avoid this.
I've always hoped for that kind of real-world continuity in an MMO, but I think it awaits the development of even greater computer power than we have now. To update the server every time an npc dies, or to change an entire town destroyed by ogres, or replace a dragon and his vast treasure hoard every time he's killed in the middle of Echo Wood with something else? I don't think you could have that even with a bunch of programmers/level designers working 24-7. GW is going to have a lean and mean staff, we know that. A programmer friend of mine suggested a sort of template-you kill Tim the sorcerer and he respawns as Xixix(random name generator) the kobold (random humanoid generator[racial stat adjustment]) sorcerer who would do and say basically the same static things as the unfortunate Tim. MAYBE a different spell selection and of course he/she would look different. Depending on circumstances, you're alignment and standing with Tims' faction might be affected. Even this would require a lot more programming language to start out. In a preeminently sand box environment you can't use the 'phasing' of WOW-they want another addition to the hamster wheel; people keep grinding to see the same world as their friends so they can quest and raid together. PFO needs everybody seeing the same thing to augment player interaction, the whole point, really. So, I think the 'theme park elements' are going to be, well, theme park (I prefer the term 'wax museum'). Now, randomly generated dungeons? Instances all across the landscape that you can just find exploring? That can change based on what occurs on the server, over time. A contest for player submitted/created content? Maybe some of this can be pulled off.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Warcraft tries to do some of this by phasing, but I'm not sure that phasing to that extent is going to be practical. Content can't be produced for every individual player so yes it does wind up being recycled. And given that everyone is paying to play, just because you've just done some content shouldn't deny it to everyone else.
IMO it should mean more dynamic content. IMO the top most deadly bosses should spawn randomly in the world, and not necessarily have specific names. A giant red dragon attacks a random location in the east, a large green dragon attacks in the west, Hordes of demons coming from the north or wherever. Events like this hitting areas, maybe 100 random events that can hit at random times, the most deadly ones may do damage to towns, may cause untold damage if not stopped, and will likely take hundreds players to take down each one. Now these horrendous bosses may show up anywhere at anytime, but for simplicities sake lets say any given large area is only likely to run into one of these every few days, possibly even once a week. These should not be simple grab a 5 man together and take it out, these could be, gather your whole town, and your neighboring towns etc... type events.
This avoids the "OK we're going to kill Dragon X for the 3rd time this week" lack of persistence while giving big events and challenges for many, and essentially infinant types of PVE content (Different terrain could completely change a boss encounter from one attempt to the next, and never knowing what or where the next major boss will be prevents "farm" status)
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Goblin Squad Member
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It's not that content is 'denied' but rather with a constantly spawning map, no two players, or even the same player re-rolling, will have the same experience. Players at the start might have to face Wolves, Goblins, Killer Rabbits and the occasional Walking Dead, but as the region becomes more 'civilised', hopefully the game-engine will start to produce less of those enemies and start to spawn more Thieves/Bandits, stray dogs and maybe even were-rats!
And just thing, as players move on to newer hexes, the hexes they have left behind could start to 'regress' if the PCs haven't taken steps to hire/train Guards to keep the region relatively safe and Militia to uphold the Common Law. Walk away from Sheepherder's Village like a bawss, convinced you've got nothing left to do, come back in-game a month later and Oh goddammit, Hobgoblins everywhere and the villagers are enslaved to dig up some ancient relic. Including that slightly creepy guy who likes his sheep a little bit too much...
Oddly enough I've just picked up Eve and while the first five days resulting in my smashing my forehead into the keyboard going "WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY!" I'm finally getting the hang of it, thanks to the Noob-Channel, where long-term players can be asked for advice, and generally respond almost instantly. Also mining is hilariously fun as I wait for the Skills to level up and I've already had one invasion into an asteroid field when a bunch of Scavengers showed up and tried to kill the miners .... not realising that a Guild had called in their gigantic star-killing super-ship to transfer some mined ore just a few minutes later.
Dear god, I've seen wafflestomping before but .... DEAR GOD IT WAS BRUTAL!
A shout-out to Helperbot 21. I don't care if you're a real person or a digital program, you rock!
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am looking forward to spending 50 hours doing something that I could have paid $20 to skip because it's a F2P MMO and that's how they work. I can't wait to be nickel and dimed by microtransactions! Also I look forward to killing 6 pigs. Or maybe 8. Or collecting 6-8 boar tusks and returning them to a questgiver who then will say thanks and then offer me the quest again. Oh! Also I am looking forward to griefers trying to wreck the game for everyone.
I can't wait!
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Goblin Squad Member
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To update the server every time an npc dies, or to change an entire town destroyed by ogres, or replace a dragon and his vast treasure hoard every time he's killed in the middle of Echo Wood with something else? I don't think you could have that even with a bunch of programmers/level designers working 24-7.
The way I've always envisioned it is not that you would swap out one set of static content with another set of static content, but rather that you would have NPCs enter and inhabit the dynamic world the same way the characters do.
My best estimate of the way most current MMOs create content is that they design an NPC from scratch and place him in the world at specific coordinates, maybe give him some wandering behavior, and then set a respawn timer on him.
What I would love to see is an entirely different system where the presence of a critical mass of NPCs of a particular type (half-orcs, elves, whatever) would generate a Spawn Point. NPCs would spawn into this area based on population and other factors, and would be given random templates for class and level of heroism. Heroic NPCs would be given unique, random names and would also have additional behavior, again based on random templates, such as trying to lead their fellow NPCs in battle to expand territory, or go off on their own and build a tower, etc. One of those Heroic NPCs might become Tim the Sorcerer, but it wouldn't be because any developer ever created Tim the Sorcerer, it would be the result of several random templates coming together in just the right way to create an NPC powerful enough to create his own tower and attract some minions. Once he's killed, he's gone. Either because a group of players stumbled upon him and killed him, or because some other NPC faction ran up against him and took him out. There could literally be thousands of these kinds of characters that are never encountered by any player.
Yes, I realize that is not likely in PFO. But I can dream :)
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am looking forward to spending 50 hours doing something that I could have paid $20 to skip because it's a F2P MMO and that's how they work. I can't wait to be nickel and dimed by microtransactions! Also I look forward to killing 6 pigs. Or maybe 8. Or collecting 6-8 boar tusks and returning them to a questgiver who then will say thanks and then offer me the quest again. Oh! Also I am looking forward to griefers trying to wreck the game for everyone.
I can't wait!
While the snark really isn't warranted, you do raise a valid point.
Will Free To Play characters be overly penalized for being that? Are we going to avoid the 'Daily Quest' routine that WoW gave to us (hello Sweatshop Simulation) or will we instead head fully down the EvE route and have 'quests' take days to finish and 'jobs' that can be finished in minutes or even hours?
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I am looking forward to spending 50 hours doing something that I could have paid $20 to skip because it's a F2P MMO and that's how they work. I can't wait to be nickel and dimed by microtransactions! Also I look forward to killing 6 pigs. Or maybe 8. Or collecting 6-8 boar tusks and returning them to a questgiver who then will say thanks and then offer me the quest again. Oh! Also I am looking forward to griefers trying to wreck the game for everyone.
I can't wait!
O please grow up. This type of comment is getting tiresome to read again and again on this forum. If you're not excited or interested in what GW is describing thus far, then don't comment at all instead of providing this type of piffling negativity.
I for one am excited as all heck for the game as described thus far. I was an avid Ultima Online and Star Wars Galaxies player and fell in love with the sandbox style MMO. The prospect of getting to play something similar with updated graphics and a prospect of a more rounded system is one I relish.
PvP combat where real risk is involved.
An ability to work toward real goals (Own towns, homes, businesses) instead of just the newest released pvp armour/weapons, etc.
The chance to play a Bard that will actually be interesting much like in paper'n'dice Pathfinder. (I guess this one is more of a "hope")
So far I like most everything I've read in the blog updates and I look forward to reading more.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am looking forward to spending 50 hours doing something that I could have paid $20 to skip because it's a F2P MMO and that's how they work. I can't wait to be nickel and dimed by microtransactions! Also I look forward to killing 6 pigs. Or maybe 8. Or collecting 6-8 boar tusks and returning them to a questgiver who then will say thanks and then offer me the quest again. Oh! Also I am looking forward to griefers trying to wreck the game for everyone.
I can't wait!
At least in their stated goals and intentions of the f2p p2p system, I highly doubt they will be skipped items. So far from the sounds of their descriptions you will have options along these lines
subscription:
train skills on more then 1 character simultaneously
access to all merit badges/skills
Freemium (AKA al a carte buy when you need):
Possibly rent the ability to level extra characters simultaneously
Purchase merit badges/skills on an as needed basis.
Ryan has stated many times that they do not intend to make it so that a freemium will get more advantages then a subscriber, and going purely free will most likely be more or less a long time trial where your characters potential is capped by not being able to access certain skills or abilities, as well as only being able to skill up 1 character at a time. If you don't want limitations, go with a subscription it's that simple.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I am looking forward to spending 50 hours doing something that I could have paid $20 to skip because it's a F2P MMO and that's how they work. I can't wait to be nickel and dimed by microtransactions! Also I look forward to killing 6 pigs. Or maybe 8. Or collecting 6-8 boar tusks and returning them to a questgiver who then will say thanks and then offer me the quest again. Oh! Also I am looking forward to griefers trying to wreck the game for everyone.
I can't wait!
While the snark really isn't warranted, you do raise a valid point.
Will Free To Play characters be overly penalized for being that? Are we going to avoid the 'Daily Quest' routine that WoW gave to us (hello Sweatshop Simulation) or will we instead head fully down the EvE route and have 'quests' take days to finish and 'jobs' that can be finished in minutes or even hours?
Hey Darkling! Isn't there a thread about that? Free To Play issues? I'm thinking that PFO is going to be a boutique style system-you buy the game and play w/o a fee for content ala Guild Wars. However you can buy vanity items with a microtransaction. I assume all parts of the world will be open to all players. In this thread I was kinda hopin' for optimism/suggestions. Although 'Don't play this game' is a suggestion. Thanks!
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm thinking that PFO is going to be a boutique style system-you buy the game and play w/o a fee for content ala Guild Wars. However you can buy vanity items with a microtransaction. I assume all parts of the world will be open to all players.
This doesn't sound like what I expect the game to be.
My understanding is that there will be a monthly subscription that gives you full access to all game features, or you could purchase access to bits and pieces with microtransactions.
Ryan has stated flatly that playing for free will generally only be done to "try it before you buy it". I believe there is also an expectation that a non-subscription account will always be more limited than a subscription account, even if the non-subscription account spends ten times as much money in microtransactions.
Warcraft tries to do some of this by phasing, but I'm not sure that phasing to that extent is going to be practical. Content can't be produced for every individual player so yes it does wind up being recycled. And given that everyone is paying to play, just because you've just done some content shouldn't deny it to everyone else.Being in a dynamic world that actually changes according to the actions of the players. Finally escaping the Greek Hell of Sysiphus pushing that same rock up that same hill day after day.
When I kill Tim the Sorcerer, I don't ever want to see Tim the Sorcerer standing around in the world again, unless he's actually be resurrected. I most certainly don't want to watch someone else kill him then stand around for 3 minutes waiting for my turn to kill him. I'm not 100% sure PFO will avoid this; any developer-created content at all will likely result in some special "named" mobs that we'll be able to kill repeatedly, but I would sure love it if they could avoid this.
I would rather kill Tim a hundred times than have phasing. It's massively multiplayer... not "have your own little version of existence in an inconstant world".
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Goblin Squad Member
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Know what excites me? The same way Minecraft excites me - the ability to take a rocky hill and being able to transform it into a bastion of civilization. I'd love to join up with some other people, find some nice spot in mid-sec, and build a town, holding it against all comers. That's what really excites me about this game in ways that even EvE Online doesn't. I'm not excited because "oh goody, I get to prove that my manhood is larger than someone else's in PvP!" I'm excited because "Oh goody, when I secure a patch of territory I CAN ACTUALLY SECURE AND KEEP IT", then take time to really customize it and build it up, much more than just watching a Sovereignty bar go up.
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Goblin Squad Member
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I would rather kill Tim a hundred times than have phasing. It's massively multiplayer... not "have your own little version of existence in an inconstant world".
Actually the very definition of sandbox, is inconsistent world. IE someone or something changes something, it stays changed until someone else changes it again, you leave your mark on the world and the mark stays. New challenges come and go, for others to tackle, and the most important threat/challenge is the other players in the game in this case.
If consistency and having the exact same hoops to jump through on your new character as your old character, and as your friends a year before you had, a theme park MMO is what you should be looking for, there are hundreds to chose from.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If consistency and having the exact same hoops to jump through on your new character as your old character, and as your friends a year before you had, a theme park MMO is what you should be looking for, there are hundreds to chose from.
I think Zidash was merely expressing his extreme distaste for phases.
If you're not familiar with Phases, they were implemented in Wrath of the Lich King expansion of World of Warcraft, and they basically allowed the game world to change as you completed certain actions. For example, you would enter a new zone that had a heated battle with tons of Undead mobs attacking a town. After you complete the quests to save the town, the same map area is no longer under attack, and you see friendly NPCs burying their dead or planting a new crop or whatever the case may be.
The main downside of Phases is that two people could be walking side-by-side, and then enter a phased area, and unless they were both in the same phase, they would suddenly not be next to each other anymore. It was common to have people in your group who had not completed all the same quests as you, and therefore could not exist in the same phase you were in. It was actually quite frustrating at times.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If consistency and having the exact same hoops to jump through on your new character as your old character, and as your friends a year before you had, a theme park MMO is what you should be looking for, there are hundreds to chose from.I think Zidash was merely expressing his extreme distaste for phases.
If you're not familiar with Phases, they were implemented in Wrath of the Lich King expansion of World of Warcraft, and they basically allowed the game world to change as you completed certain actions. For example, you would enter a new zone that had a heated battle with tons of Undead mobs attacking a town. After you complete the quests to save the town, the same map area is no longer under attack, and you see friendly NPCs burying their dead or planting a new crop or whatever the case may be.
The main downside of Phases is that two people could be walking side-by-side, and then enter a phased area, and unless they were both in the same phase, they would suddenly not be next to each other anymore. It was common to have people in your group who had not completed all the same quests as you, and therefore could not exist in the same phase you were in. It was actually quite frustrating at times.
Aaah ok, I quit WoW just before burning crusade came out. Yeah if that is what phases are I absolutely agree. I believe great attacks etc... should happen, but they should not be limited to some people, if an area is swarmed by undead, that should be a game wide event, that anyone who wants to join in should. I'm more in favor of general random events that take place in random locations that anyone in the area is effected by, rather than an instance overlaying an area.
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Goblin Squad Member
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Being in a dynamic world that actually changes according to the actions of the players. Finally escaping the Greek Hell of Sysiphus pushing that same rock up that same hill day after day.
Haha, yes. This. It's so discouraging seeing the changes I've made on a game-world eventually despawn so the next player can come and do exactly what I just did. I'd like to know I'm having a lasting, legitimate impact on my virual surroundings!
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Goblin Squad Member
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subscription:
train skills on more then 1 character simultaneously
Inaccurate. As I have said before, we're charging you to train skills. Subscribers don't have to micro-manage their skill training payments, but a subscription still gets you just one character-month of training. You could pay for two subscriptions on one account and double that and train two characters in parallel, or you could use MTX to give some training to a second character in parallel.
Of course the same logic applies for 3, 4, etc. characters.
RyanD]
Aaah ok, I quit WoW just before burning crusade came out. Yeah if that is what phases are I absolutely agree. I believe great attacks etc... should happen, but they should not be limited to some people, if an area is swarmed by undead, that should be a game wide event, that anyone who wants to join in should. I'm more in favor of general random events that take place in random locations that anyone in the area is effected by, rather than an instance overlaying an area.If consistency and having the exact same hoops to jump through on your new character as your old character, and as your friends a year before you had, a theme park MMO is what you should be looking for, there are hundreds to chose from.I think Zidash was merely expressing his extreme distaste for phases.
If you're not familiar with Phases, they were implemented in Wrath of the Lich King expansion of World of Warcraft, and they basically allowed the game world to change as you completed certain actions. For example, you would enter a new zone that had a heated battle with tons of Undead mobs attacking a town. After you complete the quests to save the town, the same map area is no longer under attack, and you see friendly NPCs burying their dead or planting a new crop or whatever the case may be.
The main downside of Phases is that two people could be walking side-by-side, and then enter a phased area, and unless they were both in the same phase, they would suddenly not be next to each other anymore. It was common to have people in your group who had not completed all the same quests as you, and therefore could not exist in the same phase you were in. It was actually quite frustrating at times.
Nihimon is right, I generally dislike the idea of, as you say - " an instance overlaying an area". I find it ruins a massive amount of the immersion and hopefully you can see how I'd view it as an inconsistent world.
As for looking for a theme park mmo? Massive no no no - I essentially have indeed been looking for the Fantasy version of EVE. As someone working to become a developer and an avid gamer it's something I would like to see realised. There's a massive niche in the market for hardcore gamers who want such a world as something other than what I think of as a 'shared single player experience' and feel this market gap needs attended to. I see more profit in it as a developer than competing with theme parks and I see more fun in it as a gamer than playing these theme parks.
Goblinworks Executive Founder
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subscription:
train skills on more then 1 character simultaneously
Inaccurate. As I have said before, we're charging you to train skills. Subscribers don't have to micro-manage their skill training payments, but a subscription still gets you just one character-month of training. You could pay for two subscriptions on one account and double that and train two characters in parallel, or you could use MTX to give some training to a second character in parallel.
Of course the same logic applies for 3, 4, etc. characters.
RyanD]
That's... pretty much the exact opposite of the last word-of-god I got on the issue.
You are saying that paying more per month will result in a concrete mechanical advantage over a single subscription, such as having multiple characters that can compete?
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So far, the only thing about this that has caught me is the fact it's set in Golarion. Nearly everything else described so far is a clone of Asheron's Call, one of the original MMO games.
It had housing, it had global quests that then permanently changed the world as free monthly updates were released based on how well the global community were working. Death was serious, you lost items and xp, and had to run back to get them. There were no classes, just skills that you could lean as you wished. You got better with use, rather than time. It still took a very long time to hit mc level.
Questing was there, but so was just random exploration. As a matter of fact, the majority of the game was just running around the country side and discovering things, most of which had mini bosses as quests unto themselves.
It was a good game for it's time, but much of it was just painful. Grinding to get better at skills. Losing gear you'd spent a long time acquiring in areas that you'd spent a long time getting to sucked. PvP was worse, since you had no chance to get your gear back as your killer just nicked it.
PFO is making most of the same mistakes, but has added a whole batch of new reasons to get frustrated. Big guilds are needed to succeed. PvP is not by choice. The chance to get to the real unique aspect of the game is limited to people who can create big guilds and devote large amounts of time to defending it.
I find it frustrating that a game built around Pathfinder is so openly encouraging of hostility rather than what that game itself does. Pathfinder is a game built on team play, heroic exploration and questing. This game is making many mistakes made in the past and moved on from by nearly all other games. I hope it works out, but so far I don't see much that inspires me.
Cheers
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Goblinworks Executive Founder
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The chance to get to the real unique aspect of the game is limited to people who can create big guilds and devote large amounts of time to defending it.
That's because the real unique aspect of the game is the ability to create and develop big factions and compete with other people doing the same thing. I think you want a sandbox Pathfinder Single Player roll-playing game.
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The chance to get to the real unique aspect of the game is limited to people who can create big guilds and devote large amounts of time to defending it.That's because the real unique aspect of the game is the ability to create and develop big factions and compete with other people doing the same thing. I think you want a sandbox Pathfinder Single Player roll-playing game.
I play MMO's with the same group of friends I play Pathfinder Roleplay with. There's about 6 of us. We make guilds, of about 6 people. We make the guild to get the banking and chat options so we can talk amongst ourselves without all the stupid leet speak and spam gold selling that these games bring with them.
The problem is, we're all older with full time jobs. Most of us have families so we only get to link up one night a week as a big group. It works in most MMO's for us, and due to this, we usually play for at least a year to 18 months. We played Asheron's call for 2 years, some of of the boys played that one for 4 years.
I'm not after a solo sandbox. I wanted a game set in the same world I roleplay in that allowed me and my friends to quest together. That's not what is being offered.
I can play the kingmaker campaign with my friends and run a kingdom, with just the six of us. That's not going to be true in PFO.
Nearly all of our experiences with large guilds so far has turned us off large guilds. The guys at the top get great benefit, everyone else is just a pawn. I play with my friends as a group of equals, workning together to have fun and escape the stress of life. This game so far offers me nothing but more stress, limited options and no support for casual gamers. Ryan even flat out told me that the fact im in a different timezone to America and Europe means tuff biccies to me.
I think it is very telling that the majority of the folk posting in these threads are not regular posters in Paizo game threads. This game is not appealing to those of us who play Pathfinder. That disapoints me no end.
However, I wish the developers well. Ryan has clearly stated he is after a niche market. It just seems to me that the roleplay market isn't it.
Cheers
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Goblin Squad Member
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I'm just glad that there is finally someone going up to bat for those of us that have been wanting this kind of MMO for a while. Something that is more than just item collecting and scripted events, and taking off the kid gloves and letting us make an actual impact on the game world and each other.
I've done a bit of research on this game the last few days and it sounds great so far. It has the potential to be on the same level as Eve. There are people who love MMOs that haven't subbed to anything in years because nobody offers what you plan on offering. Please don't forget this niche market as you continue to develop and refine this game.
I think it is very telling that the majority of the folk posting in these threads are not regular posters in Paizo game threads. This game is not appealing to those of us who play Pathfinder. That disapoints me no end.
However, I wish the developers well. Ryan has clearly stated he is after a niche market. It just seems to me that the roleplay market isn't it.
Tabletop gamers and computer gamers are different things with a common word. Someone can be both and they can be neither, or one or the other. They do not define each other and an avid tabletop player could love this game or hate it because it's targeted at a niche.
You mentioned the game doesn't cater to casual gamers - of course it won't. If it did it'd be competing with everything and it's not like you don't have alternate options set in fantasy worlds. It'll sell, get subs then die if it goes casual and you'll move on to something else in 18 months as you say, so let the non-casual market have this one? It's setting itself up as a hobby for a hardcore gamer rather than a game for everyone - and we love it.
Just because the game isn't for you that doesn't mean it isn't aimed at the roleplayers. I've played pen and paper for ages although I'm relatively new to Pathfinder as a setting and I just happen to fit in this niche. The reason people here seem to be uninvolved with the remainder of the forum could be more to do with the mentality of the niche the game is going for - which is fair do's considering we're the rather neglected gamers who've been waiting for a game like this that actually seems to have its act together from the start.
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Goblin Squad Member
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You are saying that paying more per month will result in a concrete mechanical advantage over a single subscription, such as having multiple characters that can compete?
Here is what I am saying:
If you pay for a subscription, you get X.
If you pay for 2 subscriptions, you get 2X.
If you pay via MTX, each MTX is a faction of X. Enough MTX equals X. Double that MTX gets you 2X.
The difference is that if you add up all the MTX costs for what a subscriber gets, it will cost more than what the subscriber pays. So you'd be better off as a subscriber. (Because we'd rather bill you monthly automatically than have you pay us incrementally when you feel like it). The difference in price will be minimal, but it will exist.
On the other hand, if you don't want to pay what a subscriber pays, you can get some benefit by paying less. As opposed to a binary choice of zero benefit and paying nothing, or full benefits and being a subscriber.
In addition there will be some content only available via MTX. So both subscribers and non-subscribers will potentially purchase and use MTX to get that content. By content I'm talking about bling mostly but it could include things like pre-packaged adventure modules. The purpose of that would be variation and fun, not a way to advance a character's power faster than otherwise. You won't be able to buy win.