Best forms for the party fighter and Polymorph / Greater Polymorph

[Axebeard]

Any suggestions?

Obviously, for Polymorph, lion form for pounce and 5 attacks is pretty good, but for Greater Polymorph it seems like going with a magical beast would be better.

Would this even be worth it? The fighter said that he'd be willing to take Weapon Training in natural attacks at 10 (we're 9th) and, with gloves of dueling, pump that up a bit. All of his feats except weapon focus, weapon spec, and improved critical (chosen weapon) would carry over to his new form. Any experience out there on whether or not it's worth it? Even with losing those feats and enhancement bonus, it seems like moving from 2 attacks (3 hasted) to 5 attacks (6 hasted) would be a bump in offensive power.

Here's how I'm thinking about it:

Enhancement bonus: -1 hit, -1 damage
Weapon training difference: -1 hit, -1 damage
Power attack change: -3 damage
Size to large: -1 hit
+4 strength: +2 hit, +2 damage
2H->1H damage: -3 (probably) damage
Lose weapon focus: -1 hit
Lose weapon spec: -2 damage
(Conditional) Charge on pounce: +2 hit

So that's a net +0 to hit and -7 to damage rolls, but, pre-haste, a 150% increase in the number of attacks per round, at least in the first round. If he ends up multiclassing barbarian at some point, that could get pretty nuts, raging on a pounce. (I could have sworn I've seen a pouncing barbarian somewhere before...)

His AC would necessarily drop as he became a large lion no longer wearing full plate, but we're playing a paizo AP (carrion crown) and we really haven't been pressured since one of the very first combats when the dice went against us.

In summary, are Polymorph and Greater Polymorph worth it? What are the best forms? At first blush, I thought the aurumvorax got 9 attacks if it managed to grapple, but that's only 5 because you can't rake on the same round you start a grapple. Chimera looks pretty cool.

Any huge animals with many attacks and pounce? What about large magical beasts? I was really disappointed that you can't become a hydra. (huge magical beast...)

[Axebeard]

Oh my goodness.

Is the Giant Octopus a valid form? That would be both hilarious and awesome for the 8 tentacle attacks. And then the Giant Lake octopus! Fantastic. Or the giant squid!

All the spell says that if your new form has a swim speed, you GAIN the ability to breathe in water. It doesn't mention anything about losing the ability to breathe air. Thoughts?

[ShadowcatX]

IIRC tentacles are secondary attacks so it probably still wouldn't be as good as a lion.

Also, I vaguely recall some rule about not being able to turn into sea creatures on land, but I don't remember if it was 3.5, pathfinder, or a home rule.

Barbarians get pounce but it requires 10 levels and the beast totem feat tree.

[Drejk]

ShadowcatX wrote:

Also, I vaguely recall some rule about not being able to turn into sea creatures on land, but I don't remember if it was 3.5, pathfinder, or a home rule.

Baleful polymorph has following rule:

Quote:

If the new form would prove fatal to the creature, such as an aquatic creature not in water, the subject gets a +4 bonus on the save.

There is a rule that prevents conjuration of creatures in environment fatal to them but I haven't found similar rule for polymorph effects. Or maybe I am too sleepy to find them at the moment.

[Ravingdork]

Fortunately, if a polymorph effect gives you a swim speed, you gain the ability to breathe water. If it gives you a burrow speed, you may breathe normally while burrowing.

Neither of these takes away your ability to breathe air. My sorcerer using overland flight and Beast Shape IV to go about as "the giant flying octopus of spinning doom!"