instead of the 4 books a month that Wizards was doing in 3.5.
Not sure if you're simply exaggerating to make a point, but I feel I have to defend WotC a bit on this. For all their other possible faults, they never released 4 books in a single month during 3.5, unless you count adventures (the closest was october 2003, with 3 hardcover releases, but one of those was FR-specific, while both of the others were also fairly specific in their approach). Most months where they published more than one book, one or more of those were campaign specific.
July 2003
Player's Handbook
Dungeon Master's Guide
Monster Manual
August 2003
Dragonlance Campaign Setting
September 2003
(none)
October 2003
Book of Exalted Deeds
Forgotten Realms: Underdark
Miniatures Handbook
November 2003
Complete Warrior
Draconomicon
December 2003
(none)
January 2004
(none)
February 2004
Unearthed Arcana
March 2004
Forgotten Realms: Player's Guide to Faerûn
April 2004
Expanded Psionics Handbook
May 2004
Complete Divine
June 2004
Eberron Campaign Setting
July 2004
Forgotten Realms: Serpent Kingdoms
Planar Handbook
August 2004
Races of Stone
September 2004
Frostburn
Monster Manual III
October 2004
Forgotten Realms: Shining South
Libris Mortis
November 2004
Complete Arcane
Eberron: Sharn: City of Towers
December 2004
Races of Destiny
January 2005
Complete Adventurer
February 2005
Forgotten Realms: Lost Empires of Faerûn
Races of the Wild
March 2005
Sandstorm
April 2005
Lords of Madness
Races of Eberron
May 2005
Forgotten Realms: Champions of Ruin
Heroes of Battle
June 2005
Dungeon Master's Guide II
Forgotten Realms: City of Splendors: Waterdeep
July 2005
Eberron: Five Nations
Weapons of Legacy
August 2005
Eberron: Explorer's Handbook
Stormwrack
September 2005
Magic of Incarnum
October 2005
Eberron: Magic of Eberron
Heroes of Horror
November 2005
Forgotten Realms: Champions of Valor
December 2005
Spell Compendium
January 2006
Eberron: Player's Guide to Eberron
Races of the Dragon
February 2006
(none)
March 2006
Forgotten Realms: Power of Faerûn
Tome of Magic: Pact, Shadow, and Truename Magic
April 2006
Complete Psionic
May 2006
Player's Handbook II
June 2006
Fiendish Codex I: Hordes of the Abyss
July 2006
Eberron: Secrets of Xen'drik
Monster Manual IV
August 2006
Forgotten Realms: Dragons of Faerûn
Tome of Battle: The Book of Nine Swords
September 2006
Dragon Magic
Eberron: Faiths of Eberron
October 2006
Complete Mage
November 2006
Cityscape
Eberron: Dragonmarked
December 2006
Fiendish Codex II: Tyrants of the Nine Hells
January 2007
Complete Scoundrel
February 2007
Dungeonscape
Eberron: Secrets of Sarlona
March 2007
Magic Item Compendium
April 2007
(none)
May 2007
Complete Champion
Drow of the Underdark
June 2007
Eberron: The Forge of War
July 2007
Monster Manual V
August 2007
(none)
September 2007
Exemplars of Evil
Forgotten Realms: The Grand History of the Realms
October 2007
Eberron: Dragons of Eberron
Rules Compendium
November 2007
(none)
December 2007
Elder Evils
January 2008
(none)
February 2008
Eberron: City of Stormreach
instead of the 4 books a month that Wizards was doing in 3.5.Not sure if you're simply exaggerating to make a point, but I feel I have to defend WotC a bit on this. For all their other possible faults, they never released 4 books in a single month during 3.5, unless you count adventures (the closest was october 2003, with 3 hardcover releases, but one of those was FR-specific, while both of the others were also fairly specific in their approach). Most months where they published more than one book, one or more of those were campaign specific.
** spoiler omitted **...
Very true, but they did release 13-19 hardcover books per year over the lifespan of 3.5e. And that doesn't count the softcovers (though there were nowhere near as many of those, as I recall).
1 to 1.5 per month is a lot less than 4/month, but it's still a lot of books per year.
With 3.5 we had only certain publishers stuff we would always alow and then other stuff had to be agreed on
Now with Pathfinder its Paizo and only Paizo anything they print is allowed
Did the players actually like playing a character they weren't allowed to personalize? That seems a tad draconic.
At my table, it's all of Core Rulebook and some of APG (feats, archetypes, prestige classes, equipment, new combat maneuvers) that are in play. The new base classes from APG aren't in play. PCs also can't freely take spells from the APG (they have to be found in captured spellbooks or scrolls, or taught by someone who already knows them.) I'm also not using Traits or Action Points.
I also have provided additional lists of available feats and spells that I've cribbed from other sources (some Paizo, some 3.5) that are in-play.
The other rule is that I will consider individual rules (feats, archetypes, etc) from other Paizo sources on a case-by-case basis.
--Hal
Its simple I have the Core Rule Book and the Bestiary.
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I am curious about two things that were mentioned in this thread.
1) That GM's think they need to restrict the material used in the campaign based on "THE PLAYERS" inability to make skill/feat choices for their character. I think the term "players get overwhelmed" was used.
-Why do you feel its your job to do this? If you know the material, then whats the deal? I personally think this is a lame excuse and doesnt make any sense. Is it our job as GM to police the players ability to learn the material? I think not. If they make a bad choice, they know better next time. Right?-
2) To pregenerate 50 characters and give your players a choice to play one?
-Never heard of such a thing, never would do such a thing (the work would be way to much, especially through 16th level for every character). Once again, if this kind of GM doesnt scare away the player base, I dont know what will. Im sitting here trying to figure out why you would do such a thing in place of learning the campaign material, writing up maps, stat block monsters, ect... Surely those things could use the multitude of hours you spent on this "pre phase" of your campaign.-
CC
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1 death a month is hardly a killer gm. I've had gm's that could average their character deaths by the hour and come up with just a little less than one.I haven't encountered any "bloat" problems in the game I run, mostly because my players are not really interested in trying to bloat up their PCs. They love the archetypes, but otherwise are relatively plain vanilla with other stuff. Most are there for the story/adventure or the role-play interactions. For books I really only use the core book, APG, and Ultimate Magic and Ultimate Combat. Those easily cover what we need at the table. Sure, I have some 3rd party stuff too, but mostly to give me options/inspiration as a GM.
On the question of number of PCs/year, I rarely see final, irrevocable PC deaths, either as player or GM. Either the GM is over the top or the players need better tactics. I find it bizarre that a game would average even one character death per month. And why stay in a game with a killer GM? I've walked out on campaigns like that rather than waste my time.
I'm afraid this comes down to a simple finding that your definition of "killer gm" and other persons' definitions of "killer gm" are not only different, they are probably irreconcilable. Personally, a character dying every month is a bit much for the games I usually play in (exceptions noted for certain games and "edgy" settings, where death is supposed to be much more common and PC's are supposed to be more interchangeable and/or replaceable), unless you have a player or two (usually this is a temporary situation solved by player improvement or player quitting group) who is making a career out of really stupid or self-destructive in-game decisions.
Now, ANY GM COULD kill off the entire party in less than an hour, and could certainly kill off roughly a character an hour-- after all, GMs have god-like power over their world-- but unless the whole point of the game is short-lived, extremely replaceable mortal heroes (and large stables of extra heroes waiting in the wings), and/or it's a short-term campaign or game session (say, a quick run of Paranoia, or taking a run at 'Tomb of Horrors' with a stockpile of one-off tournament characters) where dying quickly is one of the points (the above notes between them cover Call of Cthulhu and more dangerous Cyberpunk campaigns)-- I would find such a death-rate for PC's way over the top into 'killer gm' territory, and it's not a campaign/gaming group I'd be interested in playing with.
I tend to believe that most role playing games (at least the ones I enjoy) place a high degree of importance on character development and extended shared storytelling/character history across the course of the campaign-- which requires heroes that aren't treated as disposable (something I find at least thoroughly implied in casual acceptance of such a high death rate in the game).
So-- ain't something that's to my taste. If it's the game you and your group like to play, go for it.
At my table, it's all of Core Rulebook and some of APG (feats, archetypes, prestige classes, equipment, new combat maneuvers) that are in play. The new base classes from APG aren't in play. PCs also can't freely take spells from the APG (they have to be found in captured spellbooks or scrolls, or taught by someone who already knows them.) I'm also not using Traits or Action Points.
I also have provided additional lists of available feats and spells that I've cribbed from other sources (some Paizo, some 3.5) that are in-play.
The other rule is that I will consider individual rules (feats, archetypes, etc) from other Paizo sources on a case-by-case basis.
A quick question from a Pathfinder newbie - are there any forms (perhaps downloadable) with a list of modular options from either the Core Rulebook or the Advanced Players Guide, to keep track of what options are being used?
I remember Rolemaster had something like this once the Companions started piling up out of control.
Thanks!
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A skilled GM can easily kill 2 characters/month. That's just ½ character per session if you play once a week.Pathfinder came out in 2009 right? 36/19=1.8 characters lost per month?
Either you are playing in a lot of games or you are not doing something right.
Since when is GM skill measured by how many characters they kill?
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A quick question from a Pathfinder newbie - are there any forms (perhaps downloadable) with a list of modular options from either the Core Rulebook or the Advanced Players Guide, to keep track of what options are being used?
It would be nice if there was a checklist of the "optional" rules that are given in the Pathfinder RPG line (anything from small changes like Massive Damage to entire sub-systems like Words of Power). Shouldn't take too long, I might try and whip one together sometime. There's only really five books to look through (I don't think there's much of that type of thing in the Bestiaries).
Since when is GM skill measured by how many characters they kill?Since 1974-ish. :P
It sure is a measure of their skill ... but perhaps not in the way they think it is :)
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While PF hasn't produced the massive bloat that 3.5 did, with colossal amounts of books detailing new feats, spells, PrCs, etc... it still has a substantial amount of that stuff. Does your campaign limit the books that may be used? I'm thinking of cutting back to the core book and APG only (as far as feats, classes, and spells are concerned).
I really don't see "bloat" as a problem. I like options and I think people are happier when they have them.
Core and a few bits from APG.
We tend to see the extra as bloat that inhibits roleplay. Our core group has been playing for 15 years or so and we are more than capable of arguing the toss over any rule you can come up with; yet we will forgive almost anything for good roleplay. So we tend to find fewer rules means more fun.
Tark XT echoed my approach. It's true I'm slow to allow new rules and additions to the game right away; after all I need to think about them first and absorb them as possibilities. But within a month or two my players know I'll let them start to play with the new rules.
The key is that you can bet by then I understand the rules too, and there will be a Newtonian "RPG" action-reaction in the campaign world when such new ideas/rules come online. In other words I use the same rules you do. If I feel the power level is beginning to bloat, it's time for my campaign to deflate them a bit. And this usually happens between level 10 and 20 anyway, and this has been the case since the early days.
New abilities, feats, skills, prestige classes, odd races, high HPs, etc etc are not bad--they just require that I as a GM up my level of play to meet the new challenges presented by _very_ powerful or unusual PCs.