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So...I've been reading over my friends PFS sorcerer tattooed sorcerer build and abilities.
I am confused...can he "make" scroll like tatoo's at level 7?
I am truly confused as to how this whole thing interacts...I'll go into more detail later but...if someone knows how all of the abilities work in conjunction with PFS rules, please help.
...a tattooed sorcerer may only use her create spell tattoo power during days spent in play (ie. not between scenarios)...
The FAQ will usually have information on how to mesh archetypes with OP. The rest of the description for the ability is in the feat on page 16 of Inner Sea Magic.
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I've read over that, but it does not discuss how this interacts with the inability to craft magic items, such as scrolls, which this ability emulates, in PFS.
There is no FAQ covering this that I have found on this webpage. If you know of one, please provide a link? Untill then...can someone give me a break down of how this works or do I need to ask more specific questions?
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Pathfinder Campaign Setting: Inner Sea Magic
Equipment: riffle scrolls (any spell augmented by the Silent Spell metamagic feat; price equals the spell’s effective level x the caster’s level x 25 gp); Feats: all feats on pages 10 and 15; Prestige Classes: A cyphermage replaces any Spell Focus feat for Scribe Scroll as a prerequisite, and may not choose the swift scrivener ability from the list of available cypher lore; the divine scion functions as written; Spells: all spells in chapter 5 except impart mind, and spellscar Other: all magical tattoos on page 16, both the spellscar and outer rifts oracle mysteries on pages 30–31 (the spellscar oracle does not gain access to the eldritch scar, primal mastery, or trigger primal magic event revelations), all archetypes on pages 32–43 except the primalist wizard archetype, with the following restrictions: only elves may be spire defender magi, a tattooed sorcerer may only use her create spell tattoo power during days spent in play (ie. not between scenarios), a vampire hunter inquisitor does not gain the silversmith ability, instead replacing detect alignment with detect undead; the Varisian Pilgrim does not replace her 8th-level domain power with Blessing of the Harrow.
My apologies. I meant Additional resources instead of FAQ. I tend to think of them as the same when that can be confusing to others. A lot of your restriction questions for books will be buried in text on the Additional Resources page like Dragnmoon has shown.
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Hey DragonMoon
I read over these and am still confused. Does this mean a tattooed sorcerer can make "scrolls" with her tattoo's during game play? Wouldn't that...kinda break the no crafting clause?
Yes.
No, it is just one of several points where the specifics trump the generalizations.The no crafting clause gets majorly broken with the Wizard (and some Bard) Arcane Bonded item.
And some folks (but not all) can craft poisons.
The Gunslinger bypasses the crafting rules entirely with their ability to make ammunition & black powder, since they don't even need to make any rolls, although they need certain equipment and skill ranks to do it.
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Hey DragonMoon
I read over these and am still confused. Does this mean a tattooed sorcerer can make "scrolls" with her tattoo's during game play? Wouldn't that...kinda break the no crafting clause?
Like most rules, you need to look at what the intentions are. I'm speaking for myself of course but I believe the reason for the ban on crafting (Scrolls in specific) is threefold:
1) Keep the game running smoothly. If you could create scrolls, it would either have to be allowed outside game sessions (auto-succeed) or in sessions (slows down things as the GM witnesses each roll).2) Prevent a micro-economy of scrolls from developing. In other words, if you could group with someone who has craft scroll and she was willing to make you a bunch of stuff at half market price, everyone who played a scenario with her would be spending time loading up on half-price scrolls (which if you later decide you don't need you can sell at exactly the price you paid). See point 1.
3) Hinder the "oh, I've got a scroll of that" phenomenon. With scribe scroll, a lot of clerics will prepare a scroll of every spell they don't normally memorize, just for the one time they need it. Don't get me wrong, it's smart adventuring to have some esoteric spells available as contingencies, but without scribe scroll the cost (and potential loss if you don't use it) means you have to pick and choose.
So, a long post but the point is this: The Tattooed Sorcerer's ability is limited in such a way that it doesn't violate the intentions of the ban on scribe scroll and therefore she can use her Create Spell Tattoo ability.
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So does that mean GM's should be encouraged to target scrolls because they are somehow unbalanced? What's the difference between a pragmatic wizard with 10,000gp worth of scrolls and a fighter with a 10,000 weapon? Is the fighter at any less risk of armor/weapons rusting than a wizard's scrolls getting moldy? And what happens when the scroll-holder gets extra-dimensional storage (haversack/bag)?
IMO, it is bad form to go after a character's magic items unless there is some very specific reason/benefit from the "bad guy's" perspective. It probably shouldn't happen within PFS, unless it is written in the tactics/text or the characters are being unusually irresponsible in protecting their items.
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as posted above: Hinder the "oh, I've got a scroll of that" phenomenon. With scribe scroll, a lot of clerics will prepare a scroll of every spell they don't normally memorize, just for the one time they need it. Don't get me wrong, it's smart adventuring to have some esoteric spells available as contingencies, but without scribe scroll the cost (and potential loss if you don't use it) means you have to pick and choose.
If anyone has a pile of stuff that they carry around for sudden eventualities, the GM should see them as a target for at least consideration in resolving damage to goods affected by any attack, accident. I am always amazed at the the character toting such ephemera who takes a swim and expects to find everything in working order the next time he opens that scroll. Mould is a favorite spoiler, but hacked to shreds works just fine as well. Fire is a hungry beast...etc.
Sorry, that is NOT the reason for the elimination, in general, of item creation. That is to keep the wealth by level more-or-less balanced across classes and builds. One of the earlier organized play campaigns suffered from several issues that tended to massively screw up wealth by level, and crafting was a major contributor. Having a Wizard or Cleric at 6th level with the wealth of a 10th level character makes it hard to balance CRs, since, to challenge them, you have t ramp up the encounters, but then the non-crafters are going to be under-powered. Losing proposition all around.
Now, as to your "Target their gear" comments, I have to ask you a question that keeps getting posed in the "Don't optimize too much" character building threads here, and that is, "How does this help the fun at the table, for the players?" IMO, it does not. I despised, as a player, getting hit by green slime, which destroyed my PC's magical boots, no save, destroying a significant portion of his wealth by level. Why would I enjoy either getting hit by what would appear to be a vindictive GM action, or having to sit there while someone else has to roll dozens of item saving throws? Not to mention having to take time to look up all the rules portions for this. We are already n a limited time budget, where does this kind of crap help?
And, as well, IMO, that rule, "Don't Be a Jerk" is a two-way street. Along with not being a jerk as a player, you shouldn't be a jerk as a GM. This problem is, usually, self-correcting in the long run; in the short-term, it makes for unhappy players.
Remember, the primary rule for PFS, at least, is that we are all here to have fun. How does having to sit there and either roll dozens of item saving throws, or, even better, sitting there while someone ELSE at the table rolls them, add to anyone's fun?
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This is an old thread, but I'm wondering about this myself...
Could it be that using the Create Spell Tattoo class ability (p. 40, Inner Sea Magic) is not considered item creation in the same way? That would make sense in terms of its legality for PFS play (it wouldn't then be an exception). Here's why I'm thinking this is not item creation:
- It's a supernatural (Su) ability
- It takes only a standard action, whereas if the normal spell tattoo item follows item creation rules (as per Wondrous Items, see p. 16), it would take much much longer (1 day per 1,000 gp in its price, as per the feat description)
Relatedly, a few things are still unclear to me:
- whether the sorcerer with this ability would have to spend the material component cost.
- whether the sorcerer needs the Inscribe Magical Tattoo feat to utilize this ability (nowhere does it say she gets the feat as part of the archetype, nor that she needs it for the 7th level ability; in fact, it says that spells created with that feat do not count toward the limit of the number of tattoos that can be active)
- partly dependent on the answer to the previous question, whether the character needs to have 5 ranks in Craft (calligraphy, paintings, or tattoos) to use the ability; this is also not mentioned anywhere.
It's clearly not a strict reading, but my guess is the intention was that at 7th level, once per day, the sorcerer gains the supernatural ability to create the spell tattoo quickly through her inherent magical powers rather than through the drudgery and cost of actually crafting it over the course of a day, hence bypassing the feat and skill prerequisites and the material components.
What do you think?
Yeah, when it says you CAN do what it says, you can do so, you don't need Feats to do that.
The Class Ability isn't working like the Craft Feat as you note (how you make it, action/crafting duration),
you just get the stated end result (same as Craft Feat) when you use the ability as standard action, no cost needed.
Note the no-material/focus restriction for the Class Ability (not Feat), so component cost isn't an issue.
The ability is not like crafting because it is not something you can keep producing,
it is a limited usage/day ability, and it's results can't accumulate over time.
It's basically like Pearls of Power in reverse, giving the sorceror bonus prepared slots.
(which other characters can also use, albeit they need to be able to cast those spells or UMD the tattoos)
The Enhanced Varisian Tattoo is similar, except being a daily SLA you can 'forget/re-learn' the spellknown for it, if you wish.