I have Monte Cook's World of Darkness, but haven't had the chance to play it. I have, however, come up with an interesting idea for a way to use it.
I want to use it to build monsters for Pathfinder. I have no intention of using the Awakened or Mage (Pathfinder classes have both those roles easily handled), but I do plan to use the Vampire to make, well, vampires, Werewolf to make werecreatures, and Demon to make demons, daemons, and devils.
What I like about MCWOD Vampires, Werewolves, and Demons is that they have a wide variety of different powers and abilities to choose from, which will let me easily create a whole slew of unique versions of each creature simply by picking interesting combinations. No two vampires, werecreatures, or evil outsiders created with MCWOD would be the same, and I like the idea of that. It makes encounters more interesting. Plus, MCWOD is level based, so challenge ratings are easy to set.
What I need to know is the power level of MCWOD characters compared to Pathfinder characters. I estimate it at 3 levels higher than a Pathfinder character, but would like to know if I am correct on that. I have no intention of allowing my players to use MCWOD classes (I am using MCWOD classes for creating monsters only), so I don't need absolute precision with balance, but I still need to be sure I'm creating level appropriate challenges.
On the Lycanthrope front: What does MCWOD have in terms of lycanthropy that using the lycanthrope template and building an NPC not cover? I'm just curious on the differences.
For level appropriate challenges: Look at the monster creation table, if the numbers fall within the margins of that chart, you should be fine for CR.
MCWOD werecreatures have an interesting array of magical powers they can choose from when they level up. They can learn how to partially shift, learn fear or illusion effects, and such. I like this, and want to bring in some of these werecreatures. The Pathfinder werecreature templates aren't necessarily bad, it's just that the MCWOD version is good.
I've been looking at the classes, and it seems that treating a MCWOD character as a character with 3 more levels than it actually has gives a good approximation of it's power compared to a Pathfinder character.
I mostly want MCWOD for the vampires, though the werecreature mechanics look usable to me. The mechanics seem balanced enough for a monster, and MCWOD's D20 system vampire class approach allows building of a wide variety of different types of vampire.
I mostly want MCWOD for the vampires, though the werecreature mechanics look usable to me. The mechanics seem balanced enough for a monster, and MCWOD's D20 system vampire class approach allows building of a wide variety of different types of vampire.I'm of the opinion that bringing the World of Darkness to D20 was probably the worst thing that happened to the product line. Anyone who's played both D20 and Storyteller can appreciate that the latter does not really fold well into the former.
That's why I haven't played MCWOD. I have NWOD books, and prefer them for World of Darkness games. However, I own a copy of MCWOD, and I do like the idea of using the Werewolf, Vampire, and Demon classes for making monsters (especially the Vampire and Demon). Each vampire or evil outsider (The MCWOD Demon is equally good for devils, demons, and daemons) would be unique in it's abilities, and that would make fighting them more interesting. It's still very much a Pathfinder game without WOD elements, and my players won't be taking levels in MCWOD classes, I'll be using MCWOD classes at the GM level as a monster builder. D20 may not be good for World of Darkness games, but as a system for creating new vampires, undead, and werecreatures to use as enemies for Pathfinder characters to slay, I thing MCWOD has merit.
I mostly want MCWOD for the vampires, though the werecreature mechanics look usable to me. The mechanics seem balanced enough for a monster, and MCWOD's D20 system vampire class approach allows building of a wide variety of different types of vampire.I'm of the opinion that bringing the World of Darkness to D20 was probably the worst thing that happened to the product line. Anyone who's played both D20 and Storyteller can appreciate that the latter does not really fold well into the former.
Yes, but how do the "Monte Cook's World of Darkness" (MCWoD) d20 20-level monster classes (vampire/werewolf/demon) stack up compared to Pathfinder characters mechanically? The setting has little bearing on the mechanics. (Though MCWoD wasn't oWoD or nWoD, but a third "WoD" setting, so setting questions become disconnected anyway.)
I haven't looked at MCWoD for awhile but I remember that a level 1 MCWoD character starts with 4 hitdice. Instead of doing 4x the skillpoints and 1x the hitdice at level 1, they start with 4x skillpoints and 4x hitdice so level one MCWoD characters have a fair bit more hitpoints. (Going on up, a level 20 MCWoD character has 23 HD.) This has less significance the further you get from level 1, but it's still worth noting.
The monster abilities basically work like fighter bonus feats or rogue talents from what I recall. You may want to look through the individual powers and make sure nothing is a game-breaker before assigning it. After all, the classes were meant to be played against each other. The lack of general magic probably puts the monsters at something of a disadvantage, though there's nothing to stop you from multi-classing them into PRPG classes too, or even making the occasional gestalt spellcaster.
Anyway, I'd just advise treading cautiously, but estimate that they're still pretty close to PFRPG levels. +/- 1 CR. Been ahile since I looked at them though, like I said.
I estimate it at 3 levels higher than a Pathfinder character, but would like to know if I am correct on that.
Yes, that's right. Keep adding 3.
One quick way to find out what PF level a particular McWoD-character is comparable to is to look at the hit dice.That said, the McWoD classes are imbalanced compared to each other and will therefore be so to PF classes too.
Yes, raise this thread from the grave!
Rise! RISE!