Yup. All I ask is that it be medieval fantasy, urban fantasy, steampunk, space fantasy, or some other type of fantasy, and that it does not have any sort of happy ending.
The first two books of Brandon Sanderson's Mistborn series are like that. Same with most of Robin Hobb's Farseer series.
You never know who's gonna die next in GRR Martin's Song of Ice and Fire Series.
Any of Shakespeare's Tragedies fit the bill obviously as well.
Thanks, guys.
To be clear, I'm looking for either a complete death of all the good guys in order to stop the bad guys, victory for the bad guys, or both. I want a rocks fall, everyone dies ending or a bittersweet ending.
You are looking for books by Joe Abercrombie. Your OP pretty much describes his books entirely. They are well written too.
+1!
Thanks, guys.
To be clear, I'm looking for either a complete death of all the good guys in order to stop the bad guys, victory for the bad guys, or both. I want a rocks fall, everyone dies ending or a bittersweet ending.
Have you ever read Hamlet or Titus? :)
It doesn't get much worse than than Titus. I remember my mom giving me the complete collection of Shakespeare's plays when I was 10. Not knowing any better I started at the beginning (Tragedies came first) with Titus Andronicus. After finishing it I went to my mom, looked at her and said, "Are you entirely sure this is age appropriate?" I was a snarky kid :)
I've read Hamlet but not Titus.
*Goes looking*
You never know who's gonna die next in GRR Martin's Song of Ice and Fire Series.
I might actually go so far as to say that it's a good bet everybody will be dead by the end of it, and every bad thing you could imagine will have happened.
And to the OP: that means the bad guys win an awful lot, sometimes even at the end of a book.
Now, I've never been a fan of good guys die just for the sake of saying the good guys died. That seems shallow to me. And to be honest, after however many Martin books, I am ready to call it a gimmick.
I think bittersweet can be achieved without everyone dying, and I think by itself it's nothing to shoot for or grab onto. It's not a principle unto itself. A good story need not follow any particular prescribed path, be it Pollyanna or Apocalyptic. In fact, it's best if it doesn't.
Yup, Abercrombie's works fit the bill.
Don't let them influence your campaigns too much, though.
Watchmen?
Roger Zelazny's Nine Princes in Amber. Just read the first book and skip the rest of the series, and you've got what you want.
If you're not tied to fantasy, almost all of Trevanian's novels have beautifully bittersweet endings. The Main and The Summer of Katya, two of my favorites, might be right up your alley. Incident at Twenty-Mile has the same type ending, except it's a western instead of a mystery/social commentary. Or, if you prefer espionage thrillers, his Eiger Sanction and The Loo Sanction would also fit the bill.
I've read Hamlet but not Titus.
*Goes looking*
Not one of his better efforts but if you are looking for lurid Shakspear that is a good place to go.
And if Titus Andronicus is too tame for you, pick up Marlowe's The Jew of Malta. What's for lunch, kids?
Hee hee!
Not really fantasy, but I can't help but plug Gulliver's Travels and Candide by Jonathan Swift and Voltaire, respectively.
Not fantasy at all, but, Ian MacEwan's Atonement is a happy-go-lucky, kill all the "good guys" off book.
Anyway, yeah, back to genre-lit, Abercrombie should hit the spot. Kurt Vonnegut, too, if you like that type of thing. I'm thinking particularly of Cat's Cradle, Slaughterhouse-Five and/or The Sirens of Titan.
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I've read Hamlet but not Titus.
*Goes looking*
Titus Andronicus is essentially "Shakespeare does splatterpunk." Consider it his Tarantino phase.
I was going to recommend the Bas-Lag series, too, although I don't consider the endings in the first two books entirely ambiguous. All the protagonists (can't really call them heroes) are either dead or utterly soured on the existence they call life. Okay, one of them might actually be kind of happy, not that it means much anymore.
Chain of dogs by erikson. Second in the series
Malazan Book Of The Fallen series in general. There is a lot of death, both deliberate self-sacrifcies, vicious murders and meaningless, accidental deaths. Bittersweet endings are the norm. Yet, some of the deaths are truly, truly epic.
Watchmen?There are no good guys in Watchmen.
Most Cthulu stories tend to end the way you want.
Keep in mind that Kelsey here seems fond of thread titles that go towards stirring sensationalism. Maybe we should hook her up with Raving Dork?
Well, I would not agree with you. They are just deluded, weak, wrong, naive and fanatic. But whatever they are, there are protagonists, and they lose.
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I was going to recommend the Bas-Lag series, too, although I don't consider the endings in the first two books entirely ambiguous. All the protagonists (can't really call them heroes) are either dead or utterly soured on the existence they call life. Okay, one of them might actually be kind of happy, not that it means much anymore.
Poor word choice on my part, I apologize.
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I was going to recommend the Bas-Lag series, too, although I don't consider the endings in the first two books entirely ambiguous. All the protagonists (can't really call them heroes) are either dead or utterly soured on the existence they call life. Okay, one of them might actually be kind of happy, not that it means much anymore.Poor word choice on my part, I apologize.
No apologies necessary, just figured it was different interpretations.
It's been a while since I read them, but wouldn't the Thomas Covenant books by Stephen Donaldson fit the bill here? It seems that every victory in those stories came at enormous cost, either a physical decimation, or doing the right thing set someone squarely on the horns of a moral/ethical dilemma, which then led to physical decimation... well, you get the idea.
One obvious problem with this thread is that since one criterion involves the ENDING, it's impossible to mention any book without revealing the most major of spoilers.
Ah well.
It's debatable whether this book qualifies, but how about _Goblin_Quest_ by Jim C. Hines? Your typical D&D party - a fighter, a wizard, a dwarven cleric, and an elven thief - goes into your typical D&D dungeon, and they take an incompetent mook goblin prisoner to get information from him... but the twist is that the goblin is the main character.
The reason the book might not qualify is that since we're seeing from the goblin's point of view, the humanoids don't seem so good, and the goblin doesn't seem so bad. But the humanoids are still good in their way, and the goblins are still evil in their way.
And you'll never guess what happens to the good guys in the end. At least, I didn't, despite what was, in retrospect, the most obvious of hints.
And since I'm scratching up debatable choices, how about - dare I say it? - the Old Testament?
I mean, I'm Jewish, but if you don't happen to believe in the Bible, then to you, it's a fantasy, right? And it does NOT have a happy ending! Especially if you end with the book of Kings.
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I was always partial to Jacqueline Carey's "The Sundering", which is a two novel series, Banewreaker and Godslayer which is kind of the standard fantasy trope told from the bad guys side and leaves him as a rather sympathetic character force by the "evil" good gods to be the antagonist.
Roger Zelazny's Nine Princes in Amber. Just read the first book and skip the rest of the series, and you've got what you want.
Well... the good guys don't die, and many of them are, in fact, comfortably situated at the end of that book.
(EDIT: Well, it's true that most of the ARMY fighting for the good guys gets wiped out. But they're more like mindlessly loyal, nameless followers than actual good guys.)
But if _Nine_Princes_ qualifies, and if you just want to read the first book of a series and then stop, then how about _The_Tainted_Sword_ by D.J. Heinrich? I got that in the days of the height of my Mystara fandom.
But I guess that doesn't qualify because the book is not particularly GOOD.
Hey, how about mythology? From what I know of Greek myths, there are plenty of heroes in them, such as Bellerophon, or Jason, who came to nasty ends. How about the story of Persephone, or of Orpheus and Euridice? How about Sophocles' play "Oedipus Rex"?
It's been a while since I read them, but wouldn't the Thomas Covenant books by Stephen Donaldson fit the bill here? It seems that every victory in those stories came at enormous cost, either a physical decimation, or doing the right thing set someone squarely on the horns of a moral/ethical dilemma, which then led to physical decimation... well, you get the idea.
I have not read the Thomas Covenant series in a long time, but they are beautifully crafted and pretty much fit the bill. Covenant is one of the most interesting fantasy genre characters ever. Big thumbs up here for a recommendation.
Chain of dogs by erikson. Second in the seriesMalazan Book Of The Fallen series in general. There is a lot of death, both deliberate self-sacrifcies, vicious murders and meaningless, accidental deaths. Bittersweet endings are the norm. Yet, some of the deaths are truly, truly epic.
+1 Erikson has absolutely no qualms about killing off very likable heroes at the drop of a hat. Even the end of the 10 book series wasnt a happy occasion. Not even close.
Oh shiznit, if we're going to go Ancient Greek:
Euripides, Medea. Nasty stuff.
Change it over to Latin and there's a lot of unhappy endings (although some happy ones, too) in Ovid's Metamorphoses.
I prefer my pagans Dionysian. Lots more sex.
and that it does not have any sort of happy ending.
I'll echo Readerbreeder. I only read the first three, but The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant, Unbeliever might scratch this itch.
Man, this thread is a walking Spoiler.
Man, this thread is a walking Spoiler.
Yeah, maybe we should've thought about that...
Hey, there is an expiration date for spoiler rage. It is generally defined as ten years. In the case of these books, that is not an issue then. In the case of some, like Oedipus Rex, well...
Spoiler alert!
Doodlebug Anklebiter: Never willing to leave well enough alone!
Try "Jude the Obscure" by Thomas Hardy
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"I am Legend" by Richard Matheson has a brilliant ending. I won't spolier it though other than to say it's much better than the crappy ending they put in the film.
On a totally non fantasy basis "The Great Gatsby" has a downer ending.
Oh and whilst I agree "Nine Princes in Amber" is a great book you shouldn't stop there. Read the whole series, it's damn good.
"Villains Victorious" Edited by Martin H. Greenberg & John Helfers
14 short stories by various authors all of which involve the triumph of evil.
Mind you, I don't know if it's just me, but that many stories with the bad guys winning one after the other gets a little soul crushing.
Then again, there's a few really good stories in there, too.
Reggie
Spoiler alert!
** spoiler omitted **
Doodlebug Anklebiter: Never willing to leave well enough alone!
Heh. Of course, the REAL spoiler - that is, the part of Sophocles' ending that isn't quite as well known - is that...
This thread's still going on?
Kelsey, do tell, did you ask for these books because you intend to kill the next party you play with (or let the bad guy win in some other dastardly way), or is it just for entertainment purposes? Because I'd have no idea how to react if the former theory is correct.
Mind you, I don't know if it's just me, but that many stories with the bad guys winning one after the other gets a little soul crushing.
I feel for you, man. I myself usually prefer bittersweet or even happy endings (not the fairytale "boring everything was alright and they lived happily ever after" kind of happy, mind you) though I have seen a rare few shows and books where a sad ending has happened, but it didn't make me feel like I wasted my time investing in the characters (which usually happens when I see such endings).