Anyone else using Hands of Slaughter from the Rival Guide?

[ithuriel]

They work really well as a group of trailblazers for your primary rival group. In our case the PCs are with the PFS so the Hands of Slaughter are the advance group for the Aspis Expedition. They can harass the PCs from afar as a recurring group of antagonists to play up the rivalry a little more.

Curious if anyone has done anything interesting with them.

[Douglas Muir 406]

I did! Though not in this AP.

Tentative conclusion: they're rich in personality but they need some tweaking as combat opponents. The gorilla is awesome and, frankly, overshadows the rest of the party... he does insane amounts of damage, has reach, and can't easily be taken down with spells because of his antipaladin saves. Alicette is close to useless in combat with an equal-level foe. The druid's animal companion is pretty good but the druid himself is no great shakes. The sorceror is a sorceror. The lamia can be bad news if she sneaks up on you.

In an extended campaign I think they all could shine -- Alicette could make a cool slavemaster character, mixing whip strikes and fascination. I'd try to keep them a level or so ahead of the PCs until it was confrontation time.

Doug M.

[remoh]

They were a bit high to introduce in Race to the Ruins, but I plan to use them in City of the Seven Spears. One PC has rival druid in his backstory. I had planned on the HoS Druid be that guy. It should add some interesting story lines.

[Douglas Muir 406]

I'd say introduce one or two of them first, then throw the whole party at the PCs when they're strong enough. If they're still too high a CR, let the PCs at least hear about them, or see them in action being badasses and/or evil. (I'd play Alicette as totally reasonable and even charming. Until she turns and starts using that whip on a slave who's not moving fast enough.)

Note that the full party includes the druid's lion companion and the gorilla's lamia cohort, plus summoned monsters. So the PCs should have a nice surprise, come the day.

Doug M.

[ithuriel]

I've been using them as harassment one step removed through Racing to Ruin.

Spoiler:

Aliciette hired Rickets the caravan master running the cock fights to take them out or slow them down. So the whole gambling argument thing was a pretext with him angling for his best opportunity- whether it be claiming some of their horses in payment or the inevitable fight.

Aliciette also hired the assassins in Kalabuto to take them out. They were paid with Aspis minted currency from Bloodcove. She had also paid Kibi to deliver a note the next day to taunt them a little if they survived.

So generally the Aspis advance team is ahead of the PCs on the trail to Tazion, but they aren't staying close enough to the main Aspis expedition to help them out directly.

What I am really hoping to do with them is...

Spoiler:

pull the Indiana Jones move. When they have finally figured out the Pillars of Light and used them to display the route to Tazion, I would like to use the HoS to steal the knowledge the PCs have worked so hard for and use their druid with stone shape to seal them into a room in the pyramid. My PCs also have a druid so worst case scenario he preps stone shape the next day and unseals the door.
Might throw in a scroll of wall of force to allow for some taunting while the stone slowly closes in.

After that I figure the PCs will be ready for a serious reckoning in Saventh Yhi.

[Douglas Muir 406]

I love it. I hope it works out for you! Post here what happens, why don't you.

Spoiler:

Your scenario is good, but it can get even better if the PCs must do as Indy did and find another way to get out.

As you say, the party druid can just stone shape the next morning. So put a clock on it. I'd suggest the classic "bad air", myself. Give the dungeon gases gradually rising from some subterranean source, no big deal as long as the passage is open but gradually increasing to lethal concentrations once it's closed. Have Team Evil point this out as the druid is closing the door; Alicette can politely explain that they have an hour, perhaps two, and suggest that they spend the time making peace with their gods.

I would turn up the salt-in-the-wounds aspect, too, especially if you catch them fair and square. Alicette doesn't strike me as a gloater, but she could totally do the Bellocq ("you have worked so hard, my friends. Ah, well.")

Incidentally, it bears repeating that the gorilla is a terrifying opponent in melee, especially if he gets a FRA. Smite + Power Attack on a good character = he can kill a comparable-level PC in a round; he has reach, and his saves are good too. Handle with care! Maybe give the PCs a chance to see what a badass he is. Clever PCs can play keepaway and peck him to death with ranged attacks. If you show them first what they're up against and they still insist on going toe-to-toe, it's on them.

Also, other than the gorilla the hands are no great shakes in a fight. Alicette in particular is painfully misbuilt and not likely to survive more than a round or two of combat. Consider rebuilding her or adding a level or two (I'd give her a level of fighter and some real armor, myself). Alternately, if your party has 5 or more PCs, consider adding a 5th character to the Hands -- I'd say a straight fighter, cleric, or rogue.

Doug M.

[amethal]

I used the Hands of Slaughter as the slavers encounter in the second book of Night Below. The gorilla, as others have said, is a fearsome opponent.

The rest largely serve as quantity rather than quality. The dismay on the faces of the players when they realised the ferasome gorilla had brought rather a lot of friends with him was one of the highlights of the encounter, but the shambling mound and the dire lion and the rest were fairly easy opponents for what I think were at the time 9th level PCs.

[The_Minstrel_Wyrm]

When I get around to Serpent's Skull I was planning on utilizing the Hands of Slaughter. It's interesting to read what others opinions of them is and what to do with it/ or about it. Hmm. Very interesting indeed.

~Dean

[Zaister]

I like the ideas presented by ithuriel and Douglas. Going Bellocq on the PCs will be fun. I'll try to adapt that. :)

[ithuriel]

Thanks for the ideas everyone.

Alicette will get a slight rebuild of feats and spells before they encounter her. I might throw an archetype on her for fun if one fits, but I haven't looked too far into it yet.

Douglas- you have it exactly right about upping the stakes in the room they will get trapped in. Don't know why I hadn't thought of that. The room is on the second floor so there isn't a good place for gases to be seeping up from, but I think some kind of stash of essential oils Issilar has for applying to his scales will do the trick. No effect for serpentfolk, but poisonous or narcotic for others with the concentration slowly building once the room is sealed. Maybe a skill check would be in order for the party alchemist to neutralize them before they hit lethal concentration.

This is the note I had Kibi deliver the morning after the failed assassination attempt for a sense of how this is going in attempts to create a little rivalry.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/28534393/Alicette%27s%20Note.jpg

[W. John Hare]

I plan on using the Hands of Slaughter as the Aspis' adventuring group, thanks for the idea. :)

I knew from my own game that the Red Mantis is what my PCs will be going after (my PCs are Pirates, argh!), and one of the rival agents managed to get away twice so she will be part of the Red Mantis group. I decided that the mooks will still use the stats as per the adventure, but that the faces of each faction needed some extra weight to make them more real to my players.

Of course, if my players decide to check, I'll give them diplomacy rolls to find out info on their rivals.

The Red Mantis group: Changeling Alchemist(Vivasecionist)/Barbarian, Mwangi Runethane (from Monte Cook's Arcana Evolved, I wanted to give the Mwangi's magic a different feel than what they are used to), Human Favored Soul/Crusader of the Mantis god (w/ leadership, cleric), and a 1/2 orc fire sorceror.

The Aspis: The Hands of Slaughter (I have a feeling that my players may avoid antagonizing this group... at least initially... :)

The Pathfinders: Dwarf Ftr/Cleric/Living Monolith, Human Alchemist, Female Human Ftr (whip mastery), Human Cleric of Asmodeus

The Sargavan Gov't: Human Paladin of Abadar, The Twins (Human Clerics of Abadar - with selective & versatile channeling), and a 1/2 Orc Alchemist

I'm looking at having the Red Mantis & Aspis as being a slightly higher challenge for the PCs than the Pathfinders & Sargavans.

And since my players have expressed a desire to hit the other encampments, I will play it as if the 'adventuring group' is out exploring (unless they decide to hit the camp specifically when the 'adventuring group' is in). Could be an interesting fight, but if they fail to give the knock out blow, I can see a possibility where they survivors will pull back to the entrance and start fortifying, and thus cut off the supply lines until the PCs find a new route.

I also liked one of the other suggestions in that the Gorilla King's forces wind up being a new faction competing for Saventh-Yhi. Not sure if I will run with it yet or not.

[Edit'd spelling]

[W. John Hare]

Oh, I suppose I should mention that both Yarzoth and Issilar are both still active and Issilar brought his 'army' of monkey men along with him. At this point Yarzoth and Issilar haven't met up, not sure if I will have them ally or not.

If nothing else, I'm hoping the faction forces will challenge my players somewhat... the last couple of fights they have smashed everything within 2 rounds... if I was lucky my monsters got to attack twice (sometimes they didn't manage to attack at all... :(