Grab and pin


Rules Questions


From grapple rules:

"Although both creatures have the grappled condition, you can, as the creature that initiated the grapple, release the grapple as a free action, removing the condition from both you and the target. If you do not release the grapple, you must continue to make a check each round, as a standard action, to maintain the hold. If your target does not break the grapple, you get a +5 circumstance bonus on grapple checks made against the same target in subsequent rounds. Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple)."

From grab ability rules:
"If a creature with this special attack hits with the indicated attack (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity."

Assume a creature with several grab attacks, e.g. hangman tree, hits several times same target and suceeds grapple check, is the result still grappled condition or something different?

Uncertainity due to sentence:
" Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions "

Could be understood that after the first suscessful grappling hit, the next one is a succesful check while the opponent is already grapples allowing additional damage over attack and constrict damage, pin or tie up.

On the other hand, this would be pretty nasty and the context of the sentence implies that the additional effects are only possible if the check is the standard action to maintain a grapple, so they could not be caused by the free checks of the grab ability.

Which one is it?


Against one target if you have multiple limbs with the grab ability used in the same grapple attempt it is still one grapple check, thus you/it must wait til next turn to make a pin.

Some creatures/class features with the the grab ability grant a +2 on the grapple, this would be the only advantage to using multiple grab limbs. If CMB is +10, and it has 3 limbs with grab (each +2) on a single target that would be a total of 16, or 14 on one target and 12 on another within reach. Since in the grab description the grapple check is a free action on hit, you would grapple the two hit targets, each with different CMB rolls.

The only way (unless listed differently in the specific monster's entry) to make a second grapple action in one round is the Greater Grapple feat, that lets you grapple as a move action, while also allowing the normal standard action grapple. There is also later a Rapid Grappler feat, that allows a grapple action as a swift action.

Here is a handy flow chart for grappling: http://paizo.com/forums/dmtz4vd3?Grapple-Rules-Flow-Chart#6


carn, Grab allows someone to START a grapple, not maintain. Pin can only be done on a maintain check.

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