Seeking advice / help on a fighter concept


Advice

Contributor

Hi there!

I've never been much of a tactical player, but I'm trying to improve that aspect of my game. I'm hopefully going to be playing a dwarven fighter in the Second Darkness AP and I've got the idea in my head that I want him to use a flail and do a lot of tripping.

I'd appreciate any advice, especially in the area of feat selection, but also about round-to-round tactical ideas of how to most effectively fight while serving the parts of his story concept that involve, y'know, flailing and tripping.

We used the "Heroic" method of rolling up ability scores from p. 15 of the Core Rulebook and I had some great rolls. The array I rolled was 17, 17, 15, 14, 12, 12. As for the other variables at first level, he came in a bit low at 150 gp starting money, and the DM goes with maximum HP at first level.

Taking the racial modifiers into account, here's how I currently have the array assigned.

STR 17
DEX 17
CON 17
INT 14
WIS 14
CHR 10

I had to assign the 14 to INT because of the prerequisites for Combat Expertise, which is itself the prerequisite for the various tripping feats.

I chose fighter for his favored class and put the 1st level point into HP, so his HP is 14.

Haven't bought all his equipment yet, but it looks like I'm going to be going with heavy flail, light crossbow, and scale mail as the campaign begins. (And one question is how and when to spend such money comes in, upping armor into the heavy categories ASAP?)

Here's what's probably the meat and potatoes for folks who know what they're talking about, and where I've probably made some missteps, the feat plan.

1st: Weapon Focus: Heavy Flail, and Power Attack
2nd: Combat Expertise
3rd: Improved Trip
4th: Weapon Specialization: Heavy Flail
5th: Iron Will
6th: Greater Trip

For traits, I currently have chosen a campaign trait from the Second Darkness player guide that gives him Perception as a class skill (and a bonus), and Tunnel Fighter, which gives him some bonuses when fighting underground.

I'm following the Two-Handed Weapon archetype from the APG, though that doesn't really do anything at 1st level.

And, let's see, what else would y'all need to know? Oh, I did one of those racial ability swap outs from the APG as well, Ancient Enmity for Hatred.

I really appreciate any time or trouble anybody spends on advising me on feats, tactics, and equipment. Thanks.


Urgosh, Dwarven
Maulaxe, Dwarven
Waraxe, Dwarven
Dorn Dergar, Dwarven

So ok the Heavy Flail is a cool weapon, gives a +2 to disarm and trip manuvers, and does a d10

But another weapon you might want to look at is the Dorn Dergar is a reach weapon that can be used with or without reach and it does a d10 to..

And we can't forget the other dwaven weapons: Waraxe, maulaxe, Urgosh are pretty sweet.

Are you planning on using heavy armor. If so trade that dex for another stat.


You have it pretty well in hand. I would rearrange your feat order. So that you had improved trip right away, because that seems to be what you wanted to emphasize. Power attack and focus can come later if you want to keep the trip artist flavor. I will say you may want to look into the Knockdown feat as well it grants a free trip anytime you do more than 10 points of damage, this means anytime you make a solid hit you automatically get a trip attempt. This way you hit and trip. All of the benefits of tripping without giving up the damage. If you wanted Knock down I would go combat expertise and trip at fist level and knowckdown at second level, followed by Power Attack at 3rd level. This gets you everthing you wanted except Iron Will by 6th. Definately go for Knock-Down I had a blast playing a similar character.

I played a human though grabbed the extra feat. I was thinking the same thing as you a dwarf instead I just made a human with the same temperment. Think Hamish from Braveheart.

Contributor

Thanks, guys! Gnomezrule, I don't see the Knockdown feat on the PrD, what's its source?

The Exchange

Pathfinder Rulebook Subscriber

I'm pretty sure he's thinking of the Rage Power by that name.


You may want combat reflexes at 5 instead of iron will. As a dwarf your will saves will e decent and at 6th you'll not only be getting an AoO when the enemy stands up next to you, but also when you trip them, meaning 2 a round. This also means you may want to keep your dex where it is. I also agree about getting improved trip at first and taking weapon focus at 3 and power attack at 2.

Dark Archive

Jaryn Wildmane wrote:
I'm pretty sure he's thinking of the Rage Power by that name.

Knockdown was a broken 3.0/3.5 feat, that does exactly what Gnomezrul said. And like I said: broken feat.

OP: I like the dwarf build. I'd suggest staying with the base fighter, rather than the archetype, so you can use all of that DEX in full plate as you level up: your AC will be comparable to somebody who is using a shield, even though you are using a two handed weapon.


Yeah that knockdown feat is pretty broken. By fourth level your base damage will be +9 (if you bump strength to 18 you're at +6 strength, +1 weapon training, +2 weapon specialization, and with PA add another +6), so every hit will grant you a trip. At sixth every trip will grant you an attack. That's just broken in my opinion.

Contributor

This is all great information, thank you all.

So now I'm thinking NOT take the archetype and go with this feat progression:

1st: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip
2nd: Weapon Focus: Heavy Flail
3rd: Power Attack
4th: Weapon Specialization: Heavy Flail
5th: Combat Reflexes
6th: Greater Trip

And pick up heavy armor as I can afford it.


I second the motion for combat reflexes. Like diskordant said if you don't have it you won't even be getting the full benefits of tripping 1 person. Much less tripping multiple enemies or taking advantage of aaos that enemies give you free for doing silly stuff.

edit: too slow :(

Liberty's Edge

A couple of things to think about:

Improved Disarm, Greater Disarm.

Nothing gives me greater warm-and-fuzzies, as a player, as knocking my opponent down (Greater Trip) and then disarming him as he is falling (Greater Disarm). So, he is lying at my feet, with his weapon off 15' in a random direction. Bwhahaha! IIRC, flails have the Disarm keyword as well as the Trip keyword.

Fury's Fall (Cheliax book)

Let's you add your Dex mod into your CMB for trip attacks.

Don't forget the possibility of the Improved Drag & Improved Reposition combat maneuvers, since the Blog poist on Trip also says that Trip weapons can be used to perform those maneuvers...

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