Help with Ninja


Advice

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I have a Ninja as a character that is pretty ineffective, its my first rouge type character. Stats as follows. He almost died 3 times dropped to negitive HP
Human
HP 9
STR 16
DEX 18
Con 12
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 18
AC 17 2 Armor 4 dex 1 dodge
inititave+4
weapons naginata 1d6 (reach), throwing-star 20ft range 1d3+3 Comp bow +1 1d8+1
Acrobatics 8 Bluff 8 climb 7 Disable device 8 escape artist 8 Intimidate 8 Perception 4 sense motive 4 sleight of hand 8 stealth 8
Feats Death from above (+3 from attacking in the air at a target on the ground), and dodge for (the low AC)


What's your other feat? Why did you take Death from above? Were I doing a 2hw ninja, you bet your butt I'd take power attack and furious focus.

I'd recommend putting your favored class bonus in HP, you already have 10 skill points a level from your intelligence and being human.


Blue Star wrote:

What's your other feat? Why did you take Death from above? Were I doing a 2hw ninja, you bet your butt I'd take power attack and furious focus.

I'd recommend putting your favored class bonus in HP, you already have 10 skill points a level from your intelligence and being human.

dodge because I had a low AC I changed it it to power attack and combat expertise


Any reason why you're not wearing a chain shirt for 19 AC? How much starting cash?

I recognize that there is a ACP, but you're going to have to ask yourself, am I getting creamed because my skill rolls are too low or am I getting creamed because my AC is too low?

How did you come by those ability scores?


Run, Just Run wrote:
dodge because I had a low AC

invest in stealth and use it. Get maybe vanishing trick at level 2. Get a chain shirt. The number one thing right now is to stay alive until that helpful level 2. I recommend using your bow and asking your DM about changing Death from Above to Mobility so you can get Spring Attack when you meet the requirements. What kind of traits are allowed in this campaign if any? standard games get 2

Don't remember but i *think* you can take heirloom weapon for greatsword prof and take Power attack at level 3 if you want to focus on melee. If you want to focus on range get some of the ranged attack feats.


cattoy wrote:

Any reason why you're not wearing a chain shirt for 19 AC? How much starting cash?

I recognize that there is a ACP, but you're going to have to ask yourself, am I getting creamed because my skill rolls are too low or am I getting creamed because my AC is too low?

How did you come by those ability scores?

100gp


Run, Just Run wrote:
dodge because I had a low AC I changed it it to power attack and combat expertise

Should have bought a chain shirt off the bat, the other option is studded leather. You have a reach weapon, no melee weapon, so your AC shouldn't mean much.


Blue Star wrote:
Should have bought a chain shirt off the bat, the other option is studded leather. You have a reach weapon, no melee weapon, so your AC shouldn't mean much.

no melee weppon a naginata is melee


Run, Just Run wrote:
no melee weppon a naginata is melee

On with reach, meaning you are likely to be standing behind an ally most of the time. You can't use it when someone is adjacent to you.


Blue Star wrote:
On with reach, meaning you are likely to be standing behind an ally most of the time. You can't use it when someone is adjacent to you.

Oh, also can you flank with a reach weppon?


Run, Just Run wrote:
Oh, also can you flank with a reach weppon?

Yeah, it gives you a bit of extra range to do it as well, but they can back you into a corner if the live long enough.


Blue Star wrote:
Yeah, it gives you a bit of extra range to do it as well, but they can back you into a corner if the live long enough.

Thats what acrobatics is for and good. Do you have specific tactics with rouge types?


Run, Just Run wrote:
Thats what acrobatics is for and good. Do you have specific tactics with rouge types?

It's possible their CMD may be too high for you especially if they are big, plus you are in serious trouble if you get grappled. Even with escape artist, some of the CMDs get ridiculously high for bigger creatures.

Patience, sometimes you need to wait before you strike, especially with the ninja, waiting beside a target while invisble, say, for an ally to provide flanking for you, can take time.

I highly recommend forgotten tricks at 2nd, the flexibility it provides is astounding, you can take vanishing trick at 4th, and shadow clones at 6th, if you want to become harder to kill.


Blue Star wrote:

It's possible their CMD may be too high for you especially if they are big, plus you are in serious trouble if you get grappled. Even with escape artist, some of the CMDs get ridiculously high for bigger creatures.

Patience, sometimes you need to wait before you strike, especially with the ninja, waiting beside a target while invisble, say, for an ally to provide flanking for you, can take time.

I highly recommend forgotten tricks at 2nd, the flexibility it provides is astounding, you can take vanishing trick at 4th, and shadow clones at 6th, if you want to become harder to kill.

what about fast stealth also do you know of any guides to ninjas?


Run, Just Run wrote:
what about fast stealth

Why bother with that when you can just be invisible? I suppose you could take it at 8th, but if you really need to get somewhere fast and quiet (and maybe vanishing trick's +20 stealth isn't cutting it) you can always use forgotten trick to learn fast stealth, if that were the case, I'd also use a ki point to get +20 feet of movement, and +4 stealth.


should I dip into other classes or take prestige classes?


Run, Just Run wrote:
should I dip into other classes or take prestige classes?

Not unless you really want to, if you do, I'd recommend paladin, it does a lot of things for the ninja. Ranger is also pretty good, but I'd only dip if you needed trapfinding. I would highly recommend taking Iron Will at some point.... unless you take paladin, then your saves will be ridiculously good. Gunslinger also has some rather unhealthy (for your enemies) perks to it.


Blue Star wrote:
Not unless you really want to, if you do, I'd recommend paladin, it does a lot of things for the ninja. Ranger is also pretty good, but I'd only dip if you needed trapfinding. I would highly recommend taking Iron Will at some point.... unless you take paladin, then your saves will be ridiculously good. Gunslinger also has some rather unhealthy (for your enemies) perks to it.

What about battle stratiges?


Run, Just Run wrote:
What about battle stratiges?

There isn't much to it, wait until you have an ally in melee with them, move up to flank, and beat them like a drum. When you get vanishing trick you can move up, whack the enemy, and go invisible hopefully helping you avoid reprisals, that is, if you are worried about such an issue.


any other tips?


Also if you could spread the word that I need help that would be helpful


Run, Just Run wrote:
any other tips?

Hmm.... personally I'd go two-weapon style, it seems like a trap, and in a lot of ways it is, but, if you don't want to be useful on your own, without having to spend a ki point every round of combat, you will want improved two-weapon feint, which paradoxically doesn't require two-weapon feint.

I think taking forgotten tricks goes very well with taking feats like Improved unarmed combat, combat expertise, and dodge. You take a handful of prerequisite feats to get access to the more powerful feats through using forgotten trick to learn a combat trick. This increases your flexibility quite a bit, which can be important.

Edit: Even more paradoxically, you don't want to actually have improved two-weapon feint, as you can simply use forgotten tricks to mimic it for a number of rounds equal to your level.


really? I thought about it but I'll be missing for to long and I'll be outdamaged because of it.


Run, Just Run wrote:
really? I thought about it but I'll be missing for to long and I'll be outdamaged because of it.

You don't actually use two-weapon fighting until you can set up some very nice conditions in your favor, I myself just spent the vast majority of 9 levels using a Heavy Darkwood shield (no armor check penalty, so I can use it however I see fit) until I could get a really good shot at someone, typically when my group's Eidolon had tripped them, I'd move for the flank, and then use TWF.

I will admit, in some ways it is a waste of a feat or two, but there are times when it's really handy, and it will eventually let you work on your own.


Run, Just Run wrote:
really? I thought about it but I'll be missing for to long and I'll be outdamaged because of it.

You have a way around this. it's called Sneak Attack


Writer wrote:
You have a way around this. it's called Sneak Attack

That doesn't fix the accuracy issues.


Blue Star wrote:
That doesn't fix the accuracy issues.

That's what I was talking about. and with the naginata if I were invisible and did whirlwind.


Run, Just Run wrote:
That's what I was talking about. and with the naginata if I were invisible and did whirlwind.

That was the point I was making in my previous post, you don't actually use or even pick up two weapon style until 7th, then you get improved two-weapon fighting at 9th, then you start killing your enemies' dex when you find yourself without someone to flank, until then, you follow one of your melee allies. Suddenly you are self-sufficient.


Blue Star wrote:
That was the point I was making in my previous post, you don't actually use or even pick up two weapon style until 7th, then you get improved two-weapon fighting at 9th, then you start killing your enemies' dex when you find yourself without someone to flank, until then, you follow one of your melee allies. Suddenly you are self-sufficient.

What would you suggest?


Blue Star wrote:
That was the point I was making in my previous post, you don't actually use or even pick up two weapon style until 7th, then you get improved two-weapon fighting at 9th, then you start killing your enemies' dex when you find yourself without someone to flank, until then, you follow one of your melee allies. Suddenly you are self-sufficient.

What would you suggest as a weapon/weapons?


Could I make 4 attacks with 2 boot blades and 2 handheld weppons?


Run, Just Run wrote:
What would you suggest as a weapon/weapons?

Katana/wakizashi, your dex isn't so much higher than your strength that I'd recommend weapon finesse. Now, if you have access to the character traits in the APG, I would get indomitable faith (+1 will saves) and rich parents (900g starting gold) or armor expert (reduces ACP by 1), depends on how fast you think you will level.


Run, Just Run wrote:
Could I make 4 attacks with 2 boot blades and 2 handheld weppons?

Not until your BAB is high enough, or you have something giving you more attacks.


Double Katana?


Blue Star wrote:
That doesn't fix the accuracy issues.

Yea, tbh SA classes need some more hitting power. But most people think SA would be too broke if it didn't miss so much : / No real fix to this


Run, Just Run wrote:
Double Katana?

You aren't proficient with it, also it's not as good, x3 crit is nice, but an 18-20 crit is nicer. Now if you are talking about running 2 katanas, then also no, they are both 1-hand weapons, your off-hand needs to be light, natural, or unarmed, otherwise you take a -4 hit, instead of -2.


What vows would you suggest?


Writer wrote:
Yea, tbh SA classes need some more hitting power. But most people think SA would be too broke if it didn't miss so much : / No real fix to this

Broken? Like RageLancePounce Broken? Feh, skills don't do the SA classes enough good, the ninja tricks are nice, and they help a lot, but at the end of the day, the class is still somewhat weak in combat, until 9th level when it can take the combination I mentioned above.

Another thing they could do is give the SA classes extra stuff they can do using their skills, for free.


Run, Just Run wrote:
What vows would you suggest?

Vows? I'm not sure what you mean. Ninjas don't exactly have vows.


what about 2 wakizashi?


Run, Just Run wrote:
what about 2 wakizashi?

That would be fine, but the Katana hits harder, if using weapon finesse gave you a +2 hit, it might be worth it, but as it stands your strength is only a +1 difference.


Blue Star wrote:
Vows? I'm not sure what you mean. Ninjas don't exactly have vows.

At the bottom of the page under Archytypes theirs vows, same as monk vows


Blue Star wrote:
You aren't proficient with it, also it's not as good, x3 crit is nice, but an 18-20 crit is nicer. Now if you are talking about running 2 katanas, then also no, they are both 1-hand weapons, your off-hand needs to be light, natural, or unarmed, otherwise you take a -4 hit, instead of -2.

ninja are proficient with the katana. That said, katana isn't a light weapon.


Run, Just Run wrote:
At the bottom of the page under Archytypes theirs vows, same as monk vows

o_O


Blue Star wrote:
That would be fine, but the Katana hits harder, if using weapon finesse gave you a +2 hit, it might be worth it, but as it stands your strength is only a +1 difference.

Oh you don't get anything for 2 light weppons I see know, my mistake


Writer wrote:
ninja are proficient with the katana. That said, katana isn't a light weapon.

I thought he may have been talking about the double katana walking stick.... monstrosity.

@Run, Just Run:I looked at where you are mentioning in my book and I don't see it. I'll check out the website.


Writer wrote:
o_O

So any good vows?


Yeah, they don't have a link here:http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/classArchetypes.html

Nor does the word Vow appear here:http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/classes/ninja.html

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