TheAntiElite, I do see where you're coming from, I do see your point(s).
I just disagree with having servers specific to eRP, it's probably a waste of time and effort on the game developer's part.
In all my days of pen'n'paper face to face roleplaying, I have never once wished to roleplay out a sex scene, nor sit and listen to one of my friends do the same. Frankly it would be rather awkward, yet I have no problem role-playing a female character at times (and I've never chosen to play a female character for the specific purpose of roleplaying out sex scenes). So I understand why people wouldn't want to walk around a town and have to see the xxx chat all over the place. I've never played an MMO where that was a huge problem, however, and the odd time I've seen it, I simply laughed and carried on by.
But as far as making a stand-alone eRP server, I see it becoming a quiet, empty, lonely place. A lot of people who do eRP on various online games are probably getting a kick from either doing something that is taboo, or because they might get caught. I see the charm of an eRP server wearing off rather quickly, and bet you'd see most of the eRP-ers back on regular servers doing their thing in a fairly short time.
That is, if the relatively low number of RP-specific servers for various games holds true.
I don't believe that the OP was talking about cut-scenes and fade-to-black where it's obvious that NPC is going to shag your character. Nor was he talking about using ones' character's charisma to woo the ladies (or men) and get what they want from them (food, beer, the Caramilk secret).
I think overt sexuality can be tastefully displayed. I think one can have naked boobies and not cause a fuss. And if that's the direction PFO takes, with hints and teases and fade-to-black, that's fine.
But I believe the OP was talking about players getting together somewhere and acting out (with chat or text or what have you) their own little scenes depicting whatever sexual fetish or scene their hearts desire. For the most part, that's okay too. Though from what I have heard, it can get a little out of hand. /shrug/
I just don't think we need separate servers for it.
You're going to find that most people are going to think along similar lines. It seems that most North Americans take more issue with topics about sexuality than they do with violence. You've got lots of Bugs Bunny and the Road Runner causing violent things to happen to Wile E. Coyote, and lots of Coyote trying to commit violence on the RR and Bugs, but you've got exactly zero (official WB stuff) cartoons where Bugs and the Coyote engage in casual sex. Sure, dressing in drag is just fine, and so is dynamiting someone, but no casual sex or threesomes. We're that bent. :P
It comes down to the kids really. If PFO was an adult only game, the sex tangent really wouldn't be much of an issue. But as soon as kids are allowed to play the game, well... anything sexual goes out the window. I mean, I imagine my friends watching their kids playing WoW.
"Look daddy, I'm killing a giant spider." "Cool!"
Now I imagine: "Look daddy, this guy wants to show me Mr. Wrinkles.."
WTF?!?! It goes downhill from there. :P
See, to put in contextually appropriate terms, cartoons in the standard Warner Brothers or Disney sense might not be the most apt comparison to use; in aggregate, the predominance of such features are geared towards the slapstick in most cases, ramping up more towards the violent rather than the seductive. However, there's a good amount of content that runs in counterpoint to that argument...and the vast majority of it can be ascribed to one man.
Tex Avery.
Take into account, however, that even before Tex's rise to prominence, and the introduction of Red Hot Riding Hood, cartoons were not exactly designed with children in mind. Some people let their kids watch cartoons with them, not unlike letting their kids play WoW, and the peripheral demographic was eventually made into the primary.
I figure a good number of people would not consider Family Guy a children's show, but I also have cause to believe that parents who aren't paying attention when at the friendly neighborhood video store might mistake it as being for children purely because it is a cartoon. Then again, I've been to video stores where people put Fritz the Cat in the children's section.
I also don't necessarily find all World of Warcraft, without modification, to be of dubious 'child friendliness' - the genocide sought by Sylvanas is likely not discussed between parents and their children. I doubt that Varian Wrynn's hatred of the orcs is given an in-depth explanation when the children go to do quests, and I similarly doubt that parents explain why it is that Garrosh is having the Horde tear through Ashenvale. The initial Death Knight quests are fairly sociopathic, given their introduction to what might have been under the expansion's Archvillain - at the very least, there is a clear-cut anti-heroic tone, coupled with a moment of redemption further down the chain, and while great as a potential teachable moment, it's something that should received discussion. And we haven't even touched on some of the more risque flirts...or the removed ones (like more than half of them for the female draenei, which is silly compared to current worgen and goblin flirts)!
Oh, hey, X, fancy meeting you here. I didn't recognize you without the 21st letter!
K, here, S is at home asleep before work. I should drop by and visit again.
Also, curse your logic and logistical conveyance of exactly how difficult the implementation of the idea would be! :) That aspect, alone, is a disincentive for anyone that would not want to have to file off that particular portion of character motives for sake of both ease of access and avoidance of excessive complication. As I am not in the business as anything save a content generator, I tend to forget the administrative and regulatory (fiscal and otherwise) aggravations that accompany the subject matter in question. From my end, I can theoretically afford to expect the best of people...though that also assumes an implausible level of perfection on the part of the 'screening process'. Those having to oversee that part of the equation don't have the luxury, as the capital at stake is their own, barring an E style aggregate funding via donations and the like.
A large portion of my expectations vis a vis eRP is tied to the experiences I've had, on E and in other places, where it isn't even the core of my roleplaying, but relevant to certain character existences. It's shaped some core if-then assessments of character behaviors, how other characters are responded to, and of course choices in character 'RP-wear' for when not out and adventuring. Such matters won't come up all the time, even in the most fully fleshed-out of games, because they don't always come up in our day to day life, unless one lives in the world of How I Met Your Mother (suit up!).
Before I contemplate pursuit of the idea further, regardless of the merits therein, the funding and demand issue really need to be prioritized. I know KickStarters aren't an option, and I've not yet become sufficiently independently wealthy from my writings to be able to drop the sort of cash needed on such a project by myself.
Why is sex treated so different from murder and death?
Because like or not, that's the culture we live in. It's a culture in which Janet Jackson's "wardrobe malfunction" during her famous Super Bowl spot was one of the few things that brought Congress to immediate, fast, and bipartisan action, something that not even war could bring us in recent times.
Simply put, allowing erotic material in Pathfinder Online is a sure way to kill this as an economic enterprise. This game will not sell enough to pay the bills if it has to be put in the "Adult" counter. That is not a situation that will change in the foreseeable future. You have no worry about the brothels being "dumbed down" in PFO. They won't even exist.
So if you want to cybersex in PFO, you'll have to do just like in the other MMO's. Keep it to an out of the way spot.
While I respectfully disagree, for the most part, the fact about the culture is an unfortunate truism. After all, there were parents who were perfectly fine with buying their children Grand Theft Auto 3 and letting them go around killing people...but the minute they heard the squeaky suspension of picking up a hooker, they flipped their proverbial excrement. Had the Discworld games been more popular, I am certain that the House of Negotiable Affection, Better Known as the 'Seamstress Guild', would have been subject to greater scrutiny (even if all that was done was negotiating recipe makings for information that went into the cleavage of the more bountiful of the ladies on the balcony of the establishment). Saint's Row the Third went with the M rating, though it's more a case of 'Rated M for Money'.
Maybe it's possible to, for lack of better phrasing, 'euphemism' the issue away, in the same way that saloons and bars had to be disguised during Prohibition. I'm not crazy about the idea, given my previous comments about Moral Guardians and Frothy Mugs of Water, but sometimes one can only work with what's made available.
Let's be honest here, we all know this is going to happen in the back alleys of RP servers. Happens in WoW, happens in Guild Wars, happens in EVE Online, happens everywhere.
Why not just make a server or two for it? (Or zones, if you're going that route.) You don't have to name them "SEX DUNGEON" or anything - something classy and understated, maybe, like how "massage parlour"s work.
Plus, it would be great for all the Shelyn/Lamashtu-worshipping roleplayers.
This attitude is symptomatic of how hard it is to be a Christian RPGer (which I am). Put this stuff in and I lose interest in PF Online and respect for Paizo.
We could have Christian RP servers, maybe. Servers for everyone! A Muslim RP server for multiculturalism, why not.
That might be confusing though. Maybe we can make it the one server but make special areas for ERP and Christian RP (CRP?) and such?
While we're being satirical, why not make the proselytizing religions play the same server? That way, you can have different Abrahamic factions pre-loaded for divisiveness. Besides, I'm a maltheist, I don't want to see that disgusting faith stuff being waved in my face.
I've got no problem with with chocolate or peanut butter.
What I do have a problem is with people letting their crotchfruit with peanut allergies anywhere near the stuff, then complaining about the peanut butter being out in the open. I'm not going to give up my peanut butter because your special snowflake is gonna swell up like a g#!*&&ned balloon and then pop like a zit!
If you cannot deduce that Peanut Butter Online might contain Peanut Butter, then Have a Nice Darwin! Also, what George Carlin said, vis a vis children.
If you cannot deduce that Peanut Butter Online might contain Peanut Butter, then Have a Nice Darwin! Also, what George Carlin said, vis a vis children.Which Pathfinder book had Goreans in it? I'll make sure to not buy that one, augh.
No Goreans, but going by the ones I have had access to and/or purchased...
You've got your Lamashtu bits in Faiths of Corruption, Book of the Damned 2, and a few mentions in a couple of other books. Lavender Lil, naturally, comes from Second Darkness, pgs. 30-31. I can't recall the page in Kingmaker 2 for the building types, but in Book of the River Nations - Complete Player's Reference for Kingdom Building, you may want to avoid page 11 and notation about places where one can purchase companionship of any and all sorts. Page 301 might be enough to put you off of purchasing the Game Master's Guide, moreso if the table on 211 offends for daring to offer a house of 'ill repute' as part of its urban location chart. Then again, that would also require blatantly ignoring page 11's suggestions.
My take would more be that, just as some people prefer cookies without tree nut content, some don't want them excised because others might be allergic. I'd say it's not as bad as the 'may contain nuts' on a can of mixed nuts, though, the previous example being a blatant overstating of said position. It's also an example of the absolutism apparent on both sides of the issue.
Goblin Squad Member
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Epic Troll.
Seriously, there is no way this is happening.
Actually, most of the WoW servers I know of have quite a heavy population of mature or erotic RPers. For the most part, it's kept on the down low in private channels, and the people are very, very discreet, but I will admit to some hilarious moments where we've stumbled across a pair of ERPers and we've just destroyed them.
It's gonna happen in Pathfinder Online. No if's, and's or but(t)'s.
While I don't think it's going to be wide-spread at first, as the game progresses, characters flesh out and people start looking for other things to do ... it's gonna happen.
That said, so long as we don't have a Moonguard where we have 'tourists' coming in asking for 'Half-Celestial Catgirl to orally polish my Rod of Lordly Might!', I honestly don't think anyone will give a fig-leaf about what somebody is making their mass of pixels do to somebody else's mass of pixels in private.
THAT SAID, doing this is basically giving Paizo and Goblinworks Online a free "GTFO" card to use against the (E)RPers at any stage or point in the game, so ERP at your own risk.
I hope it's treated rather tongue in cheek, much like it is in FF XIV, where I literally start the game, there's three Miqo'te girls dancing in some very revealing clothing, and the NPCs are telling them to 'shake it', and one is asking one of the cat-girls to reach into his pocket for some of the game's currency ....
Why it's a bad idea to ERP in an easily accessible area.
so as a rogue can i get someone in bed and since it is open world pvp i can then Gut them ? it is what i think about when i hear about a erotic rp and i want to join in just a great way to get their guard down.
I take it you'll be playing a Female character?
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Goblin Squad Member
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so as a rogue can i get someone in bed and since it is open world pvp i can then Gut them ? it is what i think about when i hear about a erotic rp and i want to join in just a great way to get their guard down.I take it you'll be playing a Female character?
He might be playing the bull seen in his avatar! Bring on Catherine the Great, and a sturdier hoist!!
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Goblin Squad Member
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so as a rogue can i get someone in bed and since it is open world pvp i can then Gut them ? it is what i think about when i hear about a erotic rp and i want to join in just a great way to get their guard down.I take it you'll be playing a Female character?
Nothing there to assume a female character let's keep River Kingdoms free from narrow thinking. Males could just as easily be using such tactics.
I imagine having erotic zones by any other name opens up all kinds of liability.
Also it's gross inside of this kind of game. There are plenty of other places on the internet for porn.
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Goblin Squad Member
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If they're trying to keep things PG-13 and you're "ERPing" in an alley, expect to get reported, and eventually banned.
I doubt it. Not unless you are doing so in public chat. I expect this kind of thing will happen commonly in private chat just like it does in many other games. I hope not to see half-naked characters spooning in public areas of Brighthaven or people being sexually harassed but generally if people want to send a willing partner seductive messages or roleplay out... whatever within the confines of player owned houses or ERP friendly establishments, have at it.
If the OP really wants a ERP haven I would encourage him to start an inn, name it something like "The Hard Knight's Ride" and promote that it's a "rowdy" place. I probably won't go there but I support it's right to exist, and it's likely to the direction I'll boot anyone pushing that stuff on my members (provided they weren't willing participants) if the admins don't ban them.
If they're trying to keep things PG-13 and you're "ERPing" in an alley, expect to get reported, and eventually banned.I doubt it. Not unless you are doing so in public chat. I expect this kind of thing will happen commonly in private chat just like it does in many other games. I hope not to see half-naked characters spooning in public areas of Brighthaven or people being sexually harassed but generally if people want to send a willing partner seductive messages or roleplay out... whatever within the confines of player owned houses or ERP friendly establishments, have at it.
If the OP really wants a ERP haven I would encourage him to start an inn, name it something like "The Hard Knight's Ride" and promote that it's a "rowdy" place. I probably won't go there but I support it's right to exist, and it's likely to the direction I'll boot anyone pushing that stuff on my members (provided they weren't willing participants) if the admins don't ban them.
if it is consensual,whats the problem?(just curious)
The Terms of Service will forbid users from creating content that the general public would classify as "adult content," offensive, or inappropriate for minors.
This is not a thing that is up for discussion.
does that mean ppl erping in private may get banned?
For Paizo, it's a great way to get the game slapped with a rating that will effectively take it out of a good chunk of the market.if it is consensual,whats the problem?(just curious)If they're trying to keep things PG-13 and you're "ERPing" in an alley, expect to get reported, and eventually banned.I doubt it. Not unless you are doing so in public chat. I expect this kind of thing will happen commonly in private chat just like it does in many other games. I hope not to see half-naked characters spooning in public areas of Brighthaven or people being sexually harassed but generally if people want to send a willing partner seductive messages or roleplay out... whatever within the confines of player owned houses or ERP friendly establishments, have at it.
If the OP really wants a ERP haven I would encourage him to start an inn, name it something like "The Hard Knight's Ride" and promote that it's a "rowdy" place. I probably won't go there but I support it's right to exist, and it's likely to the direction I'll boot anyone pushing that stuff on my members (provided they weren't willing participants) if the admins don't ban them.
my 2 cents, i present u the guys that greatly helped the project, and would like to remember that the "kids" will be playing the last shiny themepark and wont give a *uc* about PO.
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Goblin Squad Member
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The Terms of Service will forbid users from creating content that the general public would classify as "adult content," offensive, or inappropriate for minors.
This is not a thing that is up for discussion.
does that mean ppl erping in private may get banned?
Really all you need is for someone to have a "private" conversation with a 15 year old. The parent finds out. Bam, the company gets in trouble for exposing their child to internet pedophiles (regardless of whether the person on the other end knew it was a minor). It may be too weak to cause a legal hit, but the reputation hit from publicity is also undesirable.
Chief Technical Officer
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The Terms of Service will forbid users from creating content that the general public would classify as "adult content," offensive, or inappropriate for minors.
This is not a thing that is up for discussion.
does that mean ppl erping in private may get banned?
I expect the admins will have better things to do than monitor private conversations, but if for some reason it became apparent to the admins, it could be a problem for someone.
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Goblin Squad Member
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For Paizo, it's a great way to get the game slapped with a rating that will effectively take it out of a good chunk of the market.if it is consensual,whats the problem?(just curious)If they're trying to keep things PG-13 and you're "ERPing" in an alley, expect to get reported, and eventually banned.I doubt it. Not unless you are doing so in public chat. I expect this kind of thing will happen commonly in private chat just like it does in many other games. I hope not to see half-naked characters spooning in public areas of Brighthaven or people being sexually harassed but generally if people want to send a willing partner seductive messages or roleplay out... whatever within the confines of player owned houses or ERP friendly establishments, have at it.
If the OP really wants a ERP haven I would encourage him to start an inn, name it something like "The Hard Knight's Ride" and promote that it's a "rowdy" place. I probably won't go there but I support it's right to exist, and it's likely to the direction I'll boot anyone pushing that stuff on my members (provided they weren't willing participants) if the admins don't ban them.
my 2 cents, i present u the guys that greatly helped the project, and would like to remember that the "kids" will be playing the last shiny themepark and wont give a *uc* about PO.
I would consider that comment a bit naive. EE is going to be largely us adult folk who had the extra money to burn to pay for a game we won't be able to play for two years. Most "kids" would rather buy the game they can play now.
We'll see minors playing that are children of backers who bought buddy and guild accounts that do not post on the forums. We will see minors in more presence at OE. And some of these "kids" nowadays can be quite well spoken on the internet to where you would think they were much older.
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Goblin Squad Member
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For Paizo, it's a great way to get the game slapped with a rating that will effectively take it out of a good chunk of the market.if it is consensual,whats the problem?(just curious)If they're trying to keep things PG-13 and you're "ERPing" in an alley, expect to get reported, and eventually banned.I doubt it. Not unless you are doing so in public chat. I expect this kind of thing will happen commonly in private chat just like it does in many other games. I hope not to see half-naked characters spooning in public areas of Brighthaven or people being sexually harassed but generally if people want to send a willing partner seductive messages or roleplay out... whatever within the confines of player owned houses or ERP friendly establishments, have at it.
If the OP really wants a ERP haven I would encourage him to start an inn, name it something like "The Hard Knight's Ride" and promote that it's a "rowdy" place. I probably won't go there but I support it's right to exist, and it's likely to the direction I'll boot anyone pushing that stuff on my members (provided they weren't willing participants) if the admins don't ban them.
my 2 cents, i present u the guys that greatly helped the project, and would like to remember that the "kids" will be playing the last shiny themepark and wont give a *uc* about PO.
Of course the forum reader age is older. We're mostly older gamers who like pathfinder, and people with enough disposable income to fund a a MMO project that wont be out for two years after we paid. That skews to an older demographic. Once we are into EE and then OE expect that average age to drop.
It really doesn't matter, even if there is only ONE minor on PFO, having a sexual element in the game leads to all kinds of possible lawsuits and bad publicity, especially as laws designed to protect minors online become more and more strict.
It will be against the terms of service, and not tolerated. Period.
I expect the admins will have better things to do than monitor private conversations, but if for some reason it became apparent to the admins, it could be a problem for someone.The Terms of Service will forbid users from creating content that the general public would classify as "adult content," offensive, or inappropriate for minors.
This is not a thing that is up for discussion.
does that mean ppl erping in private may get banned?
ok, thanks.
im having a hard time figuring out why gutting ppl with a rusty blade is acceptable and consensual erotism isnt, but if it is to avoid legal problems and bad publicity i can understand from a BUSINESS perspective.
note: ppl will do it regardless;
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Goblin Squad Member
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im having a hard time figuring out why gutting ppl with a rusty blade is acceptable and consensual erotism isnt,
Blame us puritanical Americans. It's a huge disconnect in our society that violence is less offensive than sex, but that's what happens when your country is founded by religious extremists.
For what it's worth, I agree with you, but it's the way things are.
American mores are stupid and poorly founded and yet it is still commercial suicide to violate them.
If only we could have had Australia's shipment of criminals instead of the puritains...
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Goblin Squad Member
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American mores are stupid and poorly founded and yet it is still commercial suicide to violate them.If only we could have had Australia's shipment of criminals instead of the puritains...
Which makes the difficulty of selling violent video games in Australia a bit surprising if you ask me. I agree our moral systems are backwards here in the states on some aspects. Regardless, I believe it is safe to say that if you keep it to yourselves, most of us won't mind.
But don't be surprised if someone tries to get you in trouble if they find out or suspect. I don't care and won't complain unless you are perving on minors. But some folks get their jollies by tattling on others.
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Goblin Squad Member
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...slapped with a rating...
Per Ryan:
I am not sure at this point if we'll even bother with ESRB or other ratings. They're only necessary if you want to sell a game through traditional Rick & mortar retailers.
and
...there's no reason to pay for the expense of participating with the ESRB, or with dealing with the fines they impose for violations of their codes (which are steep, and the codes are complex).
Nothing there to assume a female character let's keep River Kingdoms free from narrow thinking. Males could just as easily be using such tactics.so as a rogue can i get someone in bed and since it is open world pvp i can then Gut them ? it is what i think about when i hear about a erotic rp and i want to join in just a great way to get their guard down.I take it you'll be playing a Female character?
I actually wasn't making fun of females, but males who play female characters to live out their feminine sexual fantasies with unsuspecting nerds. lol