And I'm not talking about Muls from Dark Sun, I'm talking about Humans that suffer from Dwarfism. Do they get sent to the mines and are adopted by Dwarven nations?
They're tenderfooted halflings.
They jealously fight over the right to the title with the Dwarves who came from the Underdark.
That is fight as in mud wrestling dwarves.
Gnomes get jealous because they are more interesting.
Wizard took the genes for dwarf humans out of the gene pool.
Assuming this thread isn't *entirely* in jest, I expect Humans on Golarion, much like those on Earth, come in many varieties, with outliers in nearly every conceivable category. Therefore, there will be really tall humans and really short humans. I doubt such Humans would be called "Dwarves" in a world with *actual* Dwarves. I believe such people don't like the term in *this* world. I think they prefer to be called "Little People." (I know the condition is called "Dwarfism, but that shouldn't dictate how we describe or treat other people).
But as for what they might be called for Pathfinder purposes, I don't think there is an official word. I say go with what works for you.
It's half in jest, half out of an unanswered question. I had a friend who told me she was legally a Dwarf (out of a discussion to do with driving). It's always bugged me that Dwarves and Halflings are a separate race (which in fantasy means another species) from humans. In real life humans who, well look like Dwarves; are all the humans in fantasy worlds perfect and free from conditions such as being short (or giant)?
If not, I imagine that as the child grows up, the parent would freak out and think something along the lines of, "A changeling*!" and possibly send the child away. That or other races would often be seen as strange, short humans.
*I'm referring to the Folktale definition, not the fantasy race
In the same vein of reasoning, I could see a setting where gnomes are seen as elves with dwarfism (well, except in the settings where Elves are perfect and free of 'conditions')
Well humans with dwarfism do not breed true. It is a genetic defect with many other drawbacks. The fantasy race however are not suffering from that issue and do not have the same drawbacks.
It is unlikely the condition would have a name outside a few small circles and would be more like
" Have you seen the miller's boy?"
"Ah, yes that one isn;t well at all."
"I know, hardly bigger then a gnome and those stubby little arms of his, poor child"
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I'd like to think that there's a greater difference between Dwarves, Humans, and Halflings than just how tall they are. Humans with "dwarfism" would be distinct from actual dwarves in several ways (no darkvision, for example) and would be recognized as just being very short humans. Unfortunately, the "Childlike" feat for halflings sort of flies in the face of this, since it implies that halflings and human children are alike enough to be near-indistinguishable. In which case, I'd say our "dwarf human" is basically a normal human with a character trait that acts as the reverse of Childlike-- he can pass himself off as a halfling (or dwarf).
In fact, I'd think "dwarf humans" in Golarion would have an easier time of it than they do in the real world. Golarion already has gnomes and halflings, so there's already houses, clothes, and everything you need built for 3-feet-tall people, and people wouldn't stop and stare at you because there's nothing out of the ordinary about seeing a guy half your size at the marketplace.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
And I'm not talking about Muls from Dark Sun, I'm talking about Humans that suffer from Dwarfism. Do they get sent to the mines and are adopted by Dwarven nations?
If genetic defects are covered as 'Diseases' in the game setting then there would be nearly no genetic abnormalities to cause dwarfism.
Cure disease, over the course of eon's would have a severe impact on the population. Once cure disease would be discovered to eradicate the various genetic related diseases, there existence would eventually shrink to nearly nothing as the condition would never be passed on to succeeding generations and cases would be fewer and fewer.
Genetic defects, being passed on at birth and not 'catchable' like other diseases would be readily more eradicated as, once cured, it could never be given to ones offspring.
Of course, it could always be a form of curse, but that too could be dealt with. Harder to do but very possible.
D&D and Pathfinder assume that every entity in the game is a perfectly functioning example of its race/gender/class/alignment/statblock unless modified in play somehow.
There are no established mechanics for starting a character that has food allergies, physical deformities, blindness, deafness, color blindness, etc. (unless imposed as a class feature a la Oracle)
In games where you could take various limitations as a part of character generation, you could play a one-armed swordsman from the get-go, and in exchange for not having all of the options that a standard two armed swordsman would have, you would get some form of compensation typically in the form of character build points. Such games typically feature a broader spectrum of character types, because there is more incentive to consider playing someone who was born blind, lame or otherwise hindered.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
They are humans that are Small size rather than Medium. That is all.
Except it is not a disease or curse. It is just a genetic abnormality or "deformity" kinda like those half ogres with the one big finger instead of a hand due to inbreeding. You can't actually cure it as it is just how they are. Like, you can't cure someone of blindness if they are born that way as it is just how their genetic coding is. It's not an affliction. I would say you just take a human and apply the small template. Size bonus to AC, strength penalty, things like that.
While I had not thought of it, I am in agreement with Gilfalas here. A Cure disease targeted at it, I think would remove it. A Heal spell would in any case.
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
I would say human dwarves is where legend of beardless Dwarves come from but my grandmother and aunt (both human dwarves) both have fairly well developed beards. So that's out.
Instead I'd throw them in with human variation. Enough weird goes on in a fantasy setting that Small sized or even Large sized humans aren't all that odd. Unless you're some gold dragon trying your hand at eugenics or something.
Why not just make them humans adjusted to small size. One other wierd thing is they could end up having someone try to create a mini tiefling or something weird.
Except healing magic restores you to what you are supposed to be. That is why restoration wont grant extra stat points because you are weak, and things like that. It's restorative magic. The spells like that can't improve you, just essentially reset you to your factory default. Which for them, is really short.
While I had not thought of it, I am in agreement with Gilfalas here. A Cure disease targeted at it, I think would remove it. A Heal spell would in any case.
I would disagree,The norm for them would be normal human. They are short and suffering form many genetic abnormalities that they can pass on. To me heal would remove those s those are not normal at all. Just as blindness is not normal, yet to someone who was born with a genetic abnormality that made them blind. You are saying heal would not fix that as blind is normal for that person.
The original concept was that dwarves, halflings, and elves were "demi-humans" or just variants of humans.
So you can see it as dwarf humans as just being dwarves or halflings. This would reflect medieval attitudes towards birth defects and atypical genetic variances.
Otherwise, you can use human stats and apply the modifiers for small creatures.
Except it is not a disease or curse. It is just a genetic abnormality or "deformity" kinda like those half ogres with the one big finger instead of a hand due to inbreeding.
Which is why I EXPLICITLY stated, IF the setting qualifies them as diseases (which some I have played in DO) then it would be rare.
Please read the whole post.
And seekerofshadowlight is dead on. If you had a character or NPC born blind and you used remove blindness on them or heal, would they still be blind? Both spells specifically state they remove those conditions permanently. But your logic would argue they would be useless since that person is 'supposed' to be blind.
An open wound is a biological and physiological abberation caused by an outside source. Cure spells fix it. They are not transporters that reset you to an earlier 'save' or polymorph spells that set you back to 'default' they nit flesh and seal wounds.
A genetic defect is a biological and physiological abberation caused by an inside source. That said, it is still an abberation to the racial norm. As such I think heal, cures and the various appropriate remove spells would work on them.
Why are some people so terrified of changing magic worlds from the norm of our own when magic can make permanent differences such as this?
Can you use Cure Blindness on something that genetically doesn't have eyes?
Can you use Cure Blindness on something that genetically doesn't have eyes?
Is the norm for the targets race to have eyes? Are genetic flaws considered diseases in the game in question?
If 1 and 2 are no then no. I 1 and 2 are yes then I would say yes.
Another question: Can Remove Disease cure Alcoholism/Addiction or Mental Illness? All of those are classified as Diseases in some way.
Does a population that all has a certain genetic flaw constitute a race? CURE THE PYGMIES>
Can you use Cure Blindness on something that genetically doesn't have eyes?
If the race has evolved to not have eyes then no. If farmers Johnson's son was born blind because of a defect then yes.
Can you use Cure Blindness on something that genetically doesn't have eyes?If the race has evolved to not have eyes then no. If farmers Johnson's son was born blind because of a defect then yes.
Considering that the Oracle's Curses actually call out that they can't be cured by magic (or other means) ("removed or dispelled without the aid of a deity") - I'd say that ordinarily, a genetic flaw can be cured with magic. Remove Blindness/Deafness does heal natural injuries, though it can't replace missing organs (see the spell, here).
If farmer Joe's eyes have cataracts, the spell will help him. If he's born without eyes, it won't. As a 3rd level spell, ordinarily it would cost 180 gp to buy. This is pretty much a major expense for peasants and ordinary people (given that trained people earn 3 sp a day = 11 gp a year). So most genetically blind or injured people just have to live with the condition in Golarion, unless there's a charitable Cleric around.
First, the childs father, not being an expert on genetics, would probably be asking any male dwarf in the area some pointed questions at the end of a pitchfork.
Once that was settled I'd imagine that the dwarf would have an easier time in a D&D universe finding things to fit: people already have dwarf and halfling sized furniture, houses, tools, clothes, farming equipment and so on.