Alright my question is deceptively simple, and to make my life easier I've got some examples.
Druid wild shapes too a animal form. Gaining the animal type some-one (for whatever reason, sadism maybe) decides to cast Anthropomorphic Animal followed by a permanency spell. When the druid eventually shifts to human what happens to it? Does it disappear? Does it kick in next time he activates wild shape?
A second example (which I attempted to use as a counter point, but really just pointed out I don't actually know the answer) a alchemist or barbarian gets Greater Magic Fang cast on his natural weapons granted by mutagen/rage, again some-one permanences these. Once the rage or mutagen wears off, what happens to the greater magic fang? Is it lying dormant?
My general point is, how does permanency interact with temporary added features, either from 1) Polymorph, or 2)Temporary none at will class features.
Any insight guys?
When you polymorph, you do not gain the creature type/subtype.
EDIT: This includes wildshape.
The spell's duration becomes permanent, but it's still an ongoing spell effect. It effectively has an unlimited duration. BUT once the target ceases to be a valid target, the spell still disappears.
Edit:
When you polymorph, you do not gain the creature type/subtype.
That too, but my answer addresses the barbarian scenario as well. =)
Kierato, that certainly cuts half my argument (Assumptions make, etc etc)
Fiddlersgreen, I'm just wondering if you could give me a page reference so that I've got something to quote, as I vaguely remembered something similar but couldn't find anything to back me up when I looked.
Kierato, that certainly cuts half my argument (Assumptions make, etc etc)
Fiddlersgreen, I'm just wondering if you could give me a page reference so that I've got something to quote, as I vaguely remembered something similar but couldn't find anything to back me up when I looked.
pg 212 Core
You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at
a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you
activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can
decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the
place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change
your size have no effect on you while you are under the
effects of a polymorph spell.
pg 212 Core
You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at
a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you
activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can
decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the
place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change
your size have no effect on you while you are under the
effects of a polymorph spell.
Well, since neither greater magic fang or rage/mutagens are polymorphs I'm not sure how that would apply?
EDIT:- the rage/mutagen are class abilities allowing you too add features, ala the sorcerers claws.
I can definitely agree with FiddlersGreen point, though after looking I have found no support for the answer. Also, I didn't even notice the second scenario.
Kierato, that certainly cuts half my argument (Assumptions make, etc etc)
Fiddlersgreen, I'm just wondering if you could give me a page reference so that I've got something to quote, as I vaguely remembered something similar but couldn't find anything to back me up when I looked.
Under the permanency spell (pg 318):
"This spell makes the duration of certain other spells permanent. You first cast the desired spell and then follow it with the permanency spell."That is, the permanency spell affects the duration of another spell.
Will edit when I find the ruling on valid targets.
Under the permanency spell (pg 318):
"This spell makes the duration of certain other spells permanent. You first cast the desired spell and then follow it with the permanency spell."
That is, the permanency spell affects the duration of another spell.Will edit when I find the ruling on valid targets.
I see exactly where you are coming from, but on checking the duration section in the core rulebook I can find nothing to say that if you no longer qualify the spell goes away.
I will add, my second scenario was only brought up to point out how silly the first scenario would be, since it basically negates natural attacks basic weakness of not being able to cheaply get the enhancement bonuses that normal weapons can grant.
EDIT :- Wait,
Permanent: The energy remains as long as the effect
does. This means the spell is vulnerable to dispel magic
Page 216 core rulebook. I can easily justify that the effect goes away once you lose your natural attacks.
Sorry guys found it anyway.
pg 212 Core
You can only be affected by one polymorph spell at
a time. If a new polymorph spell is cast on you (or you
activate a polymorph effect, such as wild shape), you can
decide whether or not to allow it to affect you, taking the
place of the old spell. In addition, other spells that change
your size have no effect on you while you are under the
effects of a polymorph spell.Well, since neither greater magic fang or rage/mutagens are polymorphs I'm not sure how that would apply?
EDIT:- the rage/mutagen are class abilities allowing you too add features, ala the sorcerers claws.
The quote is more about someone trying to polymorph a druid who is wildshaped. You can't have two polymorph spells active at once so a druid who is wildshaped doesn't have to be affected by the anthro-spell
The quote is more about someone trying to polymorph a druid who is wildshaped. You can't have two polymorph spells active at once so a druid who is wildshaped doesn't have to be affected by the anthro-spell
Ahh ok I see where you where coming from, luckily(or maybe unluckily) some-one had blown that theory out the water before that point.
Under the permanency spell (pg 318):
"This spell makes the duration of certain other spells permanent. You first cast the desired spell and then follow it with the permanency spell."
That is, the permanency spell affects the duration of another spell.Will edit when I find the ruling on valid targets.
I see exactly where you are coming from, but on checking the duration section in the core rulebook I can find nothing to say that if you no longer qualify the spell goes away.
I will add, my second scenario was only brought up to point out how silly the first scenario would be, since it basically negates natural attacks basic weakness of not being able to cheaply get the enhancement bonuses that normal weapons can grant.
EDIT :- Wait,
Permanent: The energy remains as long as the effect
does. This means the spell is vulnerable to dispel magicPage 216 core rulebook. I can easily justify that the effect goes away once you lose your natural attacks.
Sorry guys found it anyway.
You got it. =)