It seems like there's a lot of overland travel in Jade Regent and I was considering playing a cavalier or another character heavily invested in mounted combat.
I almost never do that, because inevitably there's chapter-long screwjobs where you can't reasonably bring a horse and you get to put a large chunk of your feats and your animal companion away for a couple months of play.
What's the read on how much of the time a mounted character would be able to participate? I'm going to be a player, so I have not read the adventures and don't want spoilers. I know three chapters aren't out yet, so thoughts from the Paizo folks would be welcome - are any of those chapters spent exclusively in a city, dungeon, or other location a mount won't be welcome?
Several months ago a player in my campaign asked a similar question. Not having the third part of the AP yet, I told him not to play a mounted-themed character. I would have stuck by that advice through the second part of the AP. Now that I have the third part... I think I'd still give that advice, but mounted combat is finally a real viability in the Hungry Storm. Not for all parts of it, but enough that it might be worthwhile. But that's a long time to wait. I'd probably still say to look at a different concept.
It's a little bit like Kingmaker.
Your character will spend the majority of the time outdoors and on his mount, but that time will be spent either on non-combat encounters, or random-encounters.
Bosses, the tough combats, and other plot material always hides inside caves. :-(
In other words, a Fighter that sinks one (maybe two??) feats into Mounted Combat will feel good. A Cavalier will not.
Ah. Boo. Well, thanks for letting me know. I'm not sure why game designers these days are allergic to outdoor and long range encounters... The Far Shot feat is for chumps, mounts are out 30% of the time, etc. You may as well not have spells of range other than Short. Up close specialist it is then...
There is no rule saying you can't ride your mount into a dungeon. A medium size character effectively becomes large sized riding a mount. That's it. How many large sized enemies do you see in dungeons? Just read up on the squeezing rules and you should be fine unless you are going into something like the mite warrens in Kingmaker 1.
And the cavalier does have more to him than just the mount. I've read the first two parts of the adventure, and even though there are no moments when I thought what a great cavalier scene, I'd still be tempted to play one in this story.
I'd say play a cavalier anyway, even if there are segments in doors. The ceilings are always 15 ft. high, right? As long as you swing sideways there's plenty of room for you and your horse. All joking aside, the cavalier can function without his mount as long as he doesn't build himself completely around mounted combat. And even if he does, he can still be useful to his allies because he can still deal respectable damage to his challenge, and he can provide his allies with additional bonuses using Tactician. Also, if you've worked out a way of displaying your banner easily, you also provide it's benefits.
I guess the trick is that when it comes to the cavalier, think of it more than just a mounted fighter- it's a "leader" class. This means that, other than implicitly suggesting the class is well suited to the leadership feat (ironically it's not), the cavalier can provide the group with inspirational benefits and act as a representative of the party (he has access to a number of the Charisma-based "social" skills).
Cavaliers also fit the plot of Jade Regent.
In conclusion: If you want to play a cavalier, play one and have fun regardless, and occasionally defy the wisdom that you can't take a horse in a cave. Some enemies will be unpleasantly surprised when they find a knight bearing down on them astride his valiant steed.
There is no rule saying you can't ride your mount into a dungeon. A medium size character effectively becomes large sized riding a mount. That's it. How many large sized enemies do you see in dungeons? Just read up on the squeezing rules and you should be fine unless you are going into something like the mite warrens in Kingmaker 1.
I assume you're joking; any steep slope, ladder, pit, rope bridge, cliff, and the vast majority of other stuff you'd find in a dungeon are impassable to horses (I know that perhaps the rules don't say that, but I would be rightfully pimp-slapped by my DM trying to pull that kind of rules lawyer BS).
A halfling on a dog is more practical but I don't know if I can take enough meth to play one of the little people for a long campaign.
And sure, I could play a cavalier tuned away from mounted, I may do that, I was just wondering if a mounted combat character would be a good choice.
There is no rule saying you can't ride your mount into a dungeon. A medium size character effectively becomes large sized riding a mount. That's it. How many large sized enemies do you see in dungeons? Just read up on the squeezing rules and you should be fine unless you are going into something like the mite warrens in Kingmaker 1.I assume you're joking; any steep slope, ladder, pit, rope bridge, cliff, and the vast majority of other stuff you'd find in a dungeon are impassable to horses (I know that perhaps the rules don't say that, but I would be rightfully pimp-slapped by my DM trying to pull that kind of rules lawyer BS).
A halfling on a dog is more practical but I don't know if I can take enough meth to play one of the little people for a long campaign.
And sure, I could play a cavalier tuned away from mounted, I may do that, I was just wondering if a mounted combat character would be a good choice.
I am not joking in the least. Where in the rules does it say that a horse can't do anything that any other large size creature with a land movement speed can do? Mechanically a horse is no different from a PC with enlarge person. Have it spend its skill points on climb if you are worried about ladders. Its not rules-lawyering at all. Anyway, all the problems you mention are easily solved by low-level spells like spider climb. By mid-levels air walk solves every conceivable mount mobility problem.
I am not joking in the least. Where in the rules does it say that a horse can't do anything that any other large size creature with a land movement speed can do?
I appreciate the input, but we play the game differently. We go by what's realistic in the game world, not considering the rules as written to be a complete simulation thereof. YMMV.
I appreciate the input, but we play the game differently. We go by what's realistic in the game world, not considering the rules as written to be a complete simulation thereof. YMMV.
I am not joking in the least. Where in the rules does it say that a horse can't do anything that any other large size creature with a land movement speed can do?
Fair enough. In my opinion, invoking rule zero to negate a core class feature half the time for a relatively weak martial class is hardly a recipe for fun, especially with the rules as written don't require you to do so.
Fair enough. In my opinion, invoking rule zero to negate a core class feature half the time for a relatively weak martial class is hardly a recipe for fun, especially with the rules as written don't require you to do so.I appreciate the input, but we play the game differently. We go by what's realistic in the game world, not considering the rules as written to be a complete simulation thereof. YMMV.
I am not joking in the least. Where in the rules does it say that a horse can't do anything that any other large size creature with a land movement speed can do?
It's not the GM imposing Rule Zero; as a player I would be on a horse climbing and hopping around like a monkey and think 'what the f*** am I doing' and the fun would be ruined for me.
You could try a small cavalier? Your mount is no bigger than the average party member (as far as game mechanics go).
If you have the right GM you could mine the bestiaries to find there are far more *ahem* interesting mount possibilities to a small rider than a medium. Gnome on a giant frog, anyone? Halfling riding a boar? Even the standard riding dog still involves a small guy with a lance on the back of an armored mastiff with big teeth...
A large part of your character in a roleplaying game is the mystique and the feel you get from playing that character.
A knight astride his loyal charger, with a banner flapping behind him, as he gallops off to save the damsel is a certain mystique.
A halfling/gnome riding a dog/frog/gecko does not have that mystique. Nor does having a horse capable of climbing up a knotted rope.
Sometimes you want to be Lancelot du Loc, not a Saturday Morning cartoon character. *shrug*
Excuse me, but what? Saying my gallant halfling cavalier on his great dane isn't full of heroic mystique?A halfling riding a dog does not have that mystique.
Sometimes you want to be Lancelot du Loc, not a Saturday Morning cartoon character. *shrug*
I mean no offense. If that's knight-in-shining-armor Arthurian-mystique to you, then that's cool. It's not to me. And just as I'll accept that it's fine for you to think it's sufficient, please understand that it's not sufficient for other people, and we would (personally) feel quite silly playing such a character.
Then again, I also think Dwarven Wizards are silly too, so take that as you will. :-)
Play a Samurai, take one or two riding feats, treat it as optional. IMO, of course. I have yet to see an AP where playing a primarily mounted character is rewarded more than 33% of the time. Jade Regent doesn't seem different from that.
Not all monks have to be kung fu, either.
It all boils down to your play style. Some GMs only run medieval-style knights in shining armor. Some GMs will run an orc campaign based out of Belkzen. And some will run kobold cavaliers looking to expand the warren's territory into a dwarven stronghold.
In my games, at least, limiting all cavaliers to the Arthurian knight-in-shining-armor stereotype is about as valid as assuming all fighters use swords. Now I know not all GMs are like me which is why I prefaced my suggestions with "if you have the right GM". Meaning "if you have a GM open to concepts like these".
I have a player that expressed interest in the mounted combat feat and eventually when his paladin is level 5, he'll get the mount. I'm wondering if that would be feasible? Or is he better off with the weapon bond and using the feat elsewhere? We're about to start the Caravan and start the journey to Brinewall Castle.
For the record, many pathfinder dungeons have no ladders and require no ropes. And if they did, that's why we have rope and tackle right? But as I said before, the cavalier is a good class without the horse. If you want to play it, play it. Don't let the possibility of not having the horse all the time get in your way.