In a recent game we ran into a problem with the AoO rules and I was hoping that we could get some feed back from the masses.
We had just cornered the BBEG. Silence was cast and he was not up to the task of Melee fighting to the death. He had his back up against a wall and was surrounded with all possible escape points cut off. In an attempt to get away he tried to use his standard action and Acrobatics to move through our clerics space. Unfortunately he failed and ended up right back where he started. So do we all get the AoO?
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Wall
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X O X
X X X
X=players
0= BBEG
As his move action he attempted to move through the clerics space again and again failed. Do those of us with Combat reflexes get a second attack?
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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This is in the FAQ. He would provoke both times, if you have combat reflexes he would provoke twice.
Unfortunately he failed and ended up right back where he started. So do we all get the AoO?
As his move action he attempted to move through the clerics space again and again failed. Do those of us with Combat reflexes get a second attack?
I believe he would provoke from everyone that threatens him.
The second time is a different action, so it would also provoke, allowing anyone with combat reflexes to make another AoO.
The FAQ entry adds this to Acrobatics: "If you attempt to move through an enemy’s space and fail the check, you lose the move action and provoke an attack of opportunity."
It doesn't say you only provoke from the target of the acrobatics (like Overrun does) so I would treat it like any other normal action that provokes.
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It doesn't say you only provoke from the target of the acrobatics (like Overrun does) so I would treat it like any other normal action that provokes.
I'm not sure you're correct here. The closest rule this comes to is provoking AoO's from entering a creatures space, as a Tiny creature needs to to hit anything else. I would not allow this to provoke from all threatening creatures, only the creature whose space the BBEG attempted to move through.
The BBEG provokes from each additional PC if and only if he fails his Acrobatics check against their specific individual Acrobatics DCs.
BBEG should make a check against the Cleric first as he wants to move through his space. Then he makes a check against PCs 1 through 4 (in the order the BBEG chooses) with an additional +2 for each beyond the Cleric. So it's gonna go like this.
Roll vs Cleric CMD+5
Roll vs PC#1 CMD+2
Roll vs PC#2 CMD+4
Roll vs PC#3 CMD+6
Roll vs PC#4 CMD+8
For those with Combat Reflexes if the BBEG attempts this twice in a round it only provokes once per threatening PC. Note the bolded text:
Combat Reflexes and Additional Attacks of Opportunity: If you have the Combat Reflexes feat, you can add your Dexterity modifier to the number of attacks of opportunity you can make in a round. This feat does not let you make more than one attack for a given opportunity, but if the same opponent provokes two attacks of opportunity from you, you could make two separate attacks of opportunity (since each one represents a different opportunity). Moving out of more than one square threatened by the same opponent in the same round doesn't count as more than one opportunity for that opponent. All these attacks are at your full normal attack bonus.
--Schoolhouse Vrock
I'm not sure you're correct here. The closest rule this comes to is provoking AoO's from entering a creatures space, as a Tiny creature needs to to hit anything else. I would not allow this to provoke from all threatening creatures, only the creature whose space the BBEG attempted to move through.
Two orcs stand side by side. Tiny fairy is in front of them. Tiny fairy moves into Orc1's square. Tiny fairy provokes from Orc1 by moving into his square. Tiny fairy provokes from Orc2 by leaving a threatened square. (Tiny fairy should have taken a 5' step)
The BBEG provokes from each additional PC if and only if he fails his Acrobatics check against their specific individual Acrobatics DCs.
Except he never made those checks because he failed the check he needed in order to move at all.
BBEG has not moved. BBEG wants to move through Cleric's Square. BBEG makes an acrobatics check, and fails. According to the FAQ, BBEG loses the move action and provokes an AoO.
Since he provoked an AoO, everyone who threatens him takes a swing. He still has not moved.
Next action, same thing happens again. Everyone who threatens (and has Combat Reflexes) takes a swing. BBEG still has not moved. He has taken 2 separate actions, both of which provoked. None of those provocations were from movement.
If that first check had succeeded, then the BBEG could move, and then he could make Acrobatics checks to avoid AoOs from everyone else.
-edit- I would prefer if the FAQ had specifically said "You lose the move action and provoke an AOO from the target of the acrobatics check."
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-edit- I would prefer if the FAQ had specifically said "You lose the move action and provoke an AOO from the target of the acrobatics check."
Wish granted:
Acrobatics: What happens if I fail the check when using this skill to move through an enemy's square?You lose the move action and provoke an AOO. (Note: This means you can attempt this up to two times in the same round, once as a move action and once as a standard action.)
Update: Page 88—In the Acrobatics skill, at the end of the third paragraph (which begins on page 87), add the following sentence: “If you attempt to move through an enemy’s space and fail the check, you lose the move action and provoke an attack of opportunity.”
—Sean K Reynolds, 08/30/11
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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Yeah he lost the move action but he still attempted to leave the square which should require the rest of the rolls each time he tries. You shouldn't face 5 AoO's for failing a single check.
--Vrock n Roll
Why not? If you stood up you would face five attacks. If he'd been able to move out of the space normally he would face five attacks. If he tried to cast a spell he would face five attacks...
The almost every single time the game says "you provoke and attack of opportunity" it means from everyone who can attack you.
You do make a good point about tiny creatures though... Hrm.
I don't know. I lean towards from everyone myself but I can see it go your way too.
One thing people tend to forget about is it's also possible to overrun a creature to escape and that might be easier in some cases.
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One thing people tend to forget about is it's also possible to overrun a creature to escape and that might be easier in some cases.
This would still provoke from all the enemies that threaten him (as he is moving out of threatened squares) and possibly provoke from the person being overrun also (if they do not have the improved overrun feat).
I guess you could combine overrun and the acrobatics check for some fun maneuvering.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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You are right about provoking, I was thinking more about the two failed acro checks. Depending on the nature of the enemy, overrun might well be easier to accomplish than acrobatics through another creatures space.
Also, after the first failed check you only have to worry about enemies with Combat Reflexes.
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If he were standing up then yes, but if you have the skill you can try to avoid the AoO's. The last 2 would be more difficult than the initial, but you could always roll better.
However to be honest, unless my BBEG was powerful enough to take 5 AoO's without blinking I'd concede the encounter and move on. Sometimes you just have to lay the King down.
--Vrock the Casbah
You do make a good point about tiny creatures though... Hrm.
Can you explain it? It sounds like Vrock is saying Tiny creatures don't provoke for leaving a threatened square.
Or is he saying a Tiny creature that moves into another creatures space and wants to not provoke would use the normal movement DC (opponent CMD) instead of the entering square DC (5+Opponent CMD)?
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You do make a good point about tiny creatures though... Hrm.Can you explain it? It sounds like Vrock is saying Tiny creatures don't provoke for leaving a threatened square.
Or is he saying a Tiny creature that moves into another creatures space and wants to not provoke would use the normal movement DC (opponent CMD) instead of the entering square DC (5+Opponent CMD)?
Tiny creatures have 0 reach and therefore to attack another creature they have to enter that creature's space, thus provoking an AoO. In 3.5 when grappling you also entered an opponents space and drew an AoO. So the implied rule is if you enter an enemies space you provoke an AoO.
A Tiny creature could make a normal Acrobatics check (DC=CMD) to enter and attack a larger creature. It would return to its original square after the attack due to ending their turn in an illegal space. Merely entering the space isn't the same as moving through the space.