I need some help with designing an encounter. (I'm new at this)
What I've got is the party enters an old library which a small gang of thieves are using for a hideout, they thieves have made off with some jewels the night before and have just gotten back from their thieving.
I was going to have their leader sitting in the main room inspecting the loot and the other thieves upstairs asleep, if the party are sneaky or clever they can kill the upstairs ones first then work on the boss, or kill the boss first, whatever they want.
But if they do what i think they'll do they'll rush in and attack the main guy which will allow the guys on balcony's to shoot down and probably destroy them.
Now i was gonna have four 1/2 CR thieves on the balconies and a 2 CR leader, the group are only four level one PCs in one of their first games. It's also just a one shot so dying isn't so bad.
I was thinking of making the thieves fatigued but i'm not sure how the fight would go if they rush in. Is it too much or should I use this as an example for them not to be stupid?
It's a oneshot. Teach them not to be stupid.
Well, if the guys upstairs are asleep, they can probably deal with the main guy before any of the other guys wake up (particularly if they're behind a closed door or something.)
It's an open area, but yeah i figured as much, thanks.
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Taking a look at what you have set-up, the overall encounter is roughly CR 4, which would be classified as an epic encounter for a 1st-level party. You would definitely help the players out by adding the fatigued condition, but it sounds like you want a way to teach players that rushing in doesn't always work so reducing the challenge may not help with that goal.
Here's my suggestion: as the PCs are approaching the library, 3 of the thieves are asleep, one is lazily keeping a lookout, and the leader is off going through the loot. If the PCs aren't careful, the lazy guard will notice them, wake up his allies (say in 1 to 3 rounds depending on how nice you want to be), and then they get pounced on. This gives them a chance to use some strategy or retreat if things go wrong.
Since it sounds like a new group, a brutal lesson isn't really called for yet and could ruin the mood for future sessions. This way gives them a chance to learn some tactics for themselves and if they get in over their heads, hey, that was their call. PCs being what they are, they might get through it too.
Taking a look at what you have set-up, the overall encounter is roughly CR 4, which would be classified as an epic encounter for a 1st-level party. You would definitely help the players out by adding the fatigued condition, but it sounds like you want a way to teach players that rushing in doesn't always work so reducing the challenge may not help with that goal.
Here's my suggestion: as the PCs are approaching the library, 3 of the thieves are asleep, one is lazily keeping a lookout, and the leader is off going through the loot. If the PCs aren't careful, the lazy guard will notice them, wake up his allies (say in 1 to 3 rounds depending on how nice you want to be), and then they get pounced on. This gives them a chance to use some strategy or retreat if things go wrong.
Since it sounds like a new group, a brutal lesson isn't really called for yet and could ruin the mood for future sessions. This way gives them a chance to learn some tactics for themselves and if they get in over their heads, hey, that was their call. PCs being what they are, they might get through it too.
Well when they enter the library they can either go up two flights of stairs which will leader to a catwalk overlooking the boss and two of the guards asleep in the room but the sentry idea might work too, i'll give it some more thought.
I think the most important thing to remember is that you are not their daddy, and it is not your job to "teach them a lesson." Doing so is the worst (and for some reason most routinely given) advice these threads have to offer. Get ready for no one to want to play with you again, if you go down that route. That's 31 years of GMing talking now.
The game will teach them that lesson all by itself in time, through fairly balanced encounters, when they really do something stupid, and when the dice go bad. Being new at this, and not knowing better than to rush in may sound stupid to veterans, but it's not. It's just naive and ignorant. And even if you think it is a punishable offense, you have no business punishing them anyway. I trust I've made that part clear enough?
Split the bad guys up. Put some of them outside, keeping watch. That will allow the party a fair and sufficient guess as the nature and numbers within. Or maybe the opportunity to capture one, if they play it smart. Next, I would keep the remainder of thieves on the ground floor, to come conveniently running out, or to meet the party coming in. Their numbers should be depleted by the encounters outside.
Finally, the boss might be planning something upstairs. No doubt he would be listening to what's going on below. By himself he is enough of a challenge, so don't think you are letting them off easy having them encounter him alone.
Edit: Ninja'd. Must be good advice if we're both giving it!
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Edit: Ninja'd. Must be good advice if we're both giving it!
Yep. The whole "sink or swim" approach really doesn't work well with people ever, and even if you learn something from it there's a good chance the person will hate you for it. If they're experienced players, I can see not holding your punches, but if they're new, they really won't learn anything.
@Bobthepeanut - You can always add in some terrain to help the PCs out if you think they're walking into a snipe-fest. If this is a library, then maybe the shelves could be used as cover against their ammunition. There are always ways to make an encounter a bit simpler for the sake of the PCs.
I would toss in a trap or two (nonlethal traps, perhaps alarms and the like) and definitely provide more than one encounter against the thieves. An encounter against unprepared thieves could be a good initial encounter, followed by alarm traps or foot snares to alert those inside which leads (possibly) to another encounter against thieves, followed by a final encounter against the rogue leader and an ally or two of his. You might make the leader something other than a rogue, though, or perhaps a multiclass rogue/something else. Fighting all of the same thing gets old quickly. Good luck!
Traps, Traps and more traps. This is a den of thieves and the one thing that thieves do well is traps.
Have alarms go off, nets fall, small darts stabbing them. Nothing that will devastate them but just enough to have them on their toes before they even start the real fighting.