Primary Claw attacks while holding Weapons?


Rules Questions


Lets say a Lv 1 Barbarian with Lesser Beast Totem charges an Orc and attacks with a Greatsword. Next round the Barbarian rages, getting access to two primary claw attacks.

If the Barbarian wants to make those two claw attacks instead of attacking with the Greatsword, would he (or she) have to drop the weapon as a free action before doing a full round action attacking with the claws?

In other words, do your hands need to be empty when making claw attacks with both of them? The feat does not specify your hands as the body part receiving the claws, can you make claw attacks with any other part of the body?


Yes.

Not everything needs to be said, otherwise you'd have dead people standing up.


read the entry for skeleton in the bestiary and decide


I take it you meant to say yes to my first question.

As far as it being said, I would be surprised if this question has not been raised before. Plenty of Monstrous Humanoids use weapons and have natural claw attacks.

If the barbarian had wolverine claws sprouting from his knuckles, he could conceivably punch someone with a hand that was holding a weapon while the other was free to do likewise, though this would seem unwieldy if said weapon was two-handed sized. If these "Claws" were as extended nails, than this would obviously not be feasible.

Assuming you are right, the current rule at leasts still supports the following;

1)Such a character can immediately switch to using one of his claws as a primary natural weapon while the other hand(for whatever reason) held the Greatsword. He would not be able to use the Greatsword for Attacks of Opportunity for that round as a result.

2)Basing off the first part, such a character in a Grapple could use one of his Natural Claw Attacks while the other held his weapon. Pulling out a dagger would probably be better.

3)If said Character had 3 arms, he could switch between the two weapon styles as I have said in my first post, doing Attack of Opportunities with either the weapon or the claws unless the weapon was two handed and he had used his claw attacks previously. If he had 4 arms, well, whoopee.

4)A Lv 1 Barbarian with Lesser Beast Totem can carry multiple two handed weapons,can attack as a standard action moving in, drop the weapon on the next turn and attack with his claws as a full round action.

In Conclusion: Lesser Beast Totem kind of sucks and would be a lot better from levels 1-5 if you could switch between charging with a two handed weapon on one round and using your claw attacks on the next without dropping your Masterwork Greatsword in order to do so.


Ah, here we go;

Creatures with natural attacks and attacks made with weapons can use both as part of a full attack action (although often a creature must forgo one natural attack for each weapon clutched in that limb, be it a claw, tentacle, or slam). Such creatures attack with their weapons normally but treat all of their natural attacks as secondary attacks during that attack, regardless of the attack's original type.

Case Closed. For the two-handed weapon focused Barbarian, Lesser Beast Totem is only circumstantial at best. A shame really.


I would argue the exact opposite, actually. Levels 1-5 are where Lesser Beast Totem shines. Remember, primary natural weapons get full strength and power attack damage, while retaining full attack bonus. 2d6+2x Str+ 2x PA > 2d6+1.5x Str+1.5x PA with a greatsword, and you are more likely to connect with at least one. And at low level, one hit is often all you need. Plus, you can split the damage between two targets.

That, when moving, you only get one strike really isn't the end of the world. Low level means less chance of reach, meaning they have to come to you if they want to fight. I guess it would be a bit worse if you were fighting hordes of enemies who were really set on keeping their distance, but I'd hardly call it "circumstantial at best."

I'm not even going to go into the monstrous damage potential of adding in a bite attack. 3 attacks at level 4 = death.

After level 6 it does taper off a bit, since you can be getting multiple swings. But you have had your fun by then, and are halfway to the awe-inspiring Greater Beast Totem. It is still a handy backup weapon, and never being totally unarmed is nice.

Overall, a pretty good rage power, I'd say.


I had not thought about it like that Mort. If you take into account that, in most low level combats, you'll only ever get one charge off assuming the enemy does not get to you first, the greater DPR of the Claws relevant to the Greatsword do shine through, as well as the split attacks. Keeping Rage up on all combat rounds at that level range might not be practical, but that is where the Greatsword will come into play, of course.

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