Eldritch Heritage Question

[agnelcow]

Eldritch Heritage states:
Select one sorcerer bloodline. You must have Skill focus in the class skill that bloodline grants to a sorcerer at 1st level (for example, Heal for the celestial bloodline). This bloodline cannot be a bloodline you already have. You gain the first-level bloodline power for the selected bloodline. For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities.

Let's say that a bard takes Skill Focus (Perception) at level one, and then at level three takes Eldritch Heritage (Draconic). What happens if that bard later gains access to the Draconic bloodline from the Dragon Disciple prestige class? The feat was legal when it was gained, but is the bard to switch to another bloodline when they would have two of the same bloodline? If there's no official answer available, how would you houserule it as a DM?

Sorry if this has already been answered, but it occurred to me during a recent session when we were discussing Prestige Classes and I became curious

[joeyfixit]

Bloodlines are bloodlines. Personally I would restrict the character to the one specified in the eldritch heritage, though I'd probably allow for a crossblood that included it.
But this seems like a bad move because the player has now burned 2 feats for something they got from a level dip. I might entertain the idea of a "feat refund" at the cost of some gold and/ or xp.

[Abraham spalding]

Quote:

Prerequisites

Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he gains the prerequisite.

A character can't use a feat if he loses a prerequisite, but he does not lose the feat itself. If, at a later time, he regains the lost prerequisite, he immediately regains full use of the feat that prerequisite enables.

Basically put -- you're screwed don't do it.

[Sean FitzSimon]

Abraham spalding wrote:

Quote:

Prerequisites

Some feats have prerequisites. Your character must have the indicated ability score, class feature, feat, skill, base attack bonus, or other quality designated in order to select or use that feat. A character can gain a feat at the same level at which he gains the prerequisite.

A character can't use a feat if he loses a prerequisite, but he does not lose the feat itself. If, at a later time, he regains the lost prerequisite, he immediately regains full use of the feat that prerequisite enables.

Basically put -- you're screwed don't do it.

Yeah, the rules are pretty clear here. If you gain the bloodline you'll lose the use of the feat, so don't do it.

[agnelcow]

Sean FitzSimon wrote:

Yeah, the rules are pretty clear here. If you gain the bloodline you'll lose the use of the feat, so don't do it.

That's sort of unfortunate, since the feat is stronger than the DD's class ability in that it would let you get the 11th level claw improvement at 13th level instead of never. I guess it just seemed odd to me that a character's ability would be set back by (at minimum, because of DD pre-reqs) 3 levels, and then never hit the same level. Maybe a Barbarian with the Heritage feats would be a better build.

Thanks for the feedback!

[Sean FitzSimon]

agnelcow wrote:

Sean FitzSimon wrote:

Yeah, the rules are pretty clear here. If you gain the bloodline you'll lose the use of the feat, so don't do it.

That's sort of unfortunate, since the feat is stronger than the DD's class ability in that it would let you get the 11th level claw improvement at 13th level instead of never. I guess it just seemed odd to me that a character's ability would be set back by (at minimum, because of DD pre-reqs) 3 levels, and then never hit the same level. Maybe a Barbarian with the Heritage feats would be a better build.

Thanks for the feedback!

I'm almost positive that this is to avoid double-dipping a particularly powerful ability. But on the whole the only way to get a bloodline (so far) is dragon disciple and sorcerer, so it's not too terrible.

Keep in mind that Draconic might seem powerful, but Abyssal is better. <3

[spalding]

agnelcow wrote:

Sean FitzSimon wrote:

Yeah, the rules are pretty clear here. If you gain the bloodline you'll lose the use of the feat, so don't do it.

That's sort of unfortunate, since the feat is stronger than the DD's class ability in that it would let you get the 11th level claw improvement at 13th level instead of never. I guess it just seemed odd to me that a character's ability would be set back by (at minimum, because of DD pre-reqs) 3 levels, and then never hit the same level. Maybe a Barbarian with the Heritage feats would be a better build.

Thanks for the feedback!

Cough! Robe of arcane heritage! Cough!

[Archaeik]

Hmm, I want to argue RAW a bit here.
First off, I will concede that RAI, Blood of Dragons insinuates having the bloodline, however...

Requirements wrote:

Spellcasting: Ability to cast 1st-level arcane spells without preparation. If the character has sorcerer levels, he must have the draconic bloodline. If the character gains levels of sorcerer after taking this class, he must take the draconic bloodline.

Blood of Dragons wrote:

A dragon disciple adds his level to his sorcerer levels when determining the powers gained from his bloodline. If the dragon disciple does not have levels of sorcerer, he instead gains bloodline powers of the draconic bloodline, using his dragon disciple level as his sorcerer level to determine the bonuses gained. He must choose a dragon type upon gaining his first level in this class and that type must be the same as his sorcerer type. This ability does not grant bonus spells to a sorcerer unless he possesses spell slots of an appropriate level. Such bonus spells are automatically granted if the sorcerer gains spell slots of the spell's level.

Eldritch Heritage wrote:

Select one sorcerer bloodline. You must have Skill focus in the class skill that bloodline grants to a sorcerer at 1st level (for example, Heal for the celestial bloodline). This bloodline cannot be a bloodline you already have. You gain the first-level bloodline power for the selected bloodline. For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. You do not gain any of the other bloodline abilities.

A DD does not explicitly gain a BL, he gains its POWERS. (If he gained the whole thing it would be arcana, class skill, et al)

If not already a Sorcerer, you wouldn't have to TAKE a BL you'd already have, it would say something like "you automatically have the Draconic BL". (Now, it does say something similar, but when lawyering that is not the same)

Same thing for EH, you gain the POWERS.

Note: this also very strongly implies that the robes will not work for someone who isn't a sorcerer. (which I don't have a problem with)

So I'm not convinced that you can't stack these.
Is there errata or statements I haven't found about the nature of "gaining a bloodline"? (ie, are "powers" synonymous with a "BL" according to RAW?)

Now, (and this is the important bit), "If the dragon disciple does not have levels of sorcerer" he no longer adds his level to determine the effect of his granted powers, he treats his DD level as his sorc level. Therefore he cannot manage to achieve a 30d6 breath weapon.
I'm not certain whether this means he'd have a 20d6 3/day | 10d6 2/day, but it seems likely.

Please cite RAW if you care to respond, I already commented on RAI.