RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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I recently started thinking about a character who is built around the idea of anti-caster specialization. There are two ways I want to approach this: martial based and caster based.
The martial based build would most likely be a fighter but any non-spellcaster would work. They would be focused on mobility, possibly ranged combat, and forcing spellcasters to fail casting spells.
A caster based build would most likely be a wizard but I think a cleric or bard would also work well. They would focus on dueling other casters, countering spells, penetrating spell resistance, and keep other casters from being effective.
Of course, the inquisitor is a good class for an anti-caster. It has a good mix of martial and caster abilities but I want to try a the fighter and wizards builds out first.
I haven't really started working on putting this all together yet, so before I do I have a couple questions. What in either build is essential and needs to be included? What are some of the situation and things that need to be considered.
Dragon Disciple Sorcerer. Cast anti-magic field, proceed to beat the crap out of enemy caster.
Monk. Use combat maneuvers (esp. trip, grapple, bullrush) forever, and at all times. Also have good saves, mobility, etc. Pick one of the archetypes that gives you perfect initiative.
Fighter's probably best off with whip/shield battlefield control. Trips grapples and bullrushes, often for free, and sometimes from long range. All day. Also, focus on getting/making tons (TONS) of AoOs.
There's a feat; I think it's called Follow Up or something similar. Basically, it allows you to move in place of making an attack of opportunity. If you combine that feat with Lunge and Combat Reflexes, you can almost assure yourself that the enemy will be within your threatened area when you cast a spell.
I could be mistaken, but I'm fairly certain that being tripped interferes with your ability to perform somatic components. If so, focusing on tripping enemies can be highly useful as well. There's a feat that branches from Follow Up that allows you to follow your target AND still attack them for a Single Attack of Opportunity. If you take Combat Expertise and Improved Trip along with those feats, you could follow your enemy and trip them to the ground.
I KNOW that spellcasting is impaired while grappling, however, so building a character focused around keeping enemy spellcasters in grapple / trip range could prove to be a hassle for those spellcasters to deal with; especially if he threatens 10 feet.
The Arcane Duelist looks like he's up to the task. +Combat Reflexes, Step Up, possibly with Follow Up & Step Up & Strike.
Until recently I thought paladin would be the class with best saves in the game, now I'd say it's a raging, superstitous barbarian.
I built a 25point-buy level 12 barbarian who achieved 23Fort/16Ref/20Will (complete with gear) without especially focussing on saves.
Personally, for a martial magekiller, I'd make it a switch-hitter with focus on mobility. Move and use ranged attacks to disrupt enemy spellcasting until you get close enough to smack'em on the head.
Cavalier, barbarian, paladin or ranger, mounted with a lance, a sword, and a bow. Moves and uses readied actions to disturb casting while getting within charge distance. After lance charge, switch to sword.
Pro: Effective from the start, well-rounded and not as vulnerable to wind-wall as pure ranged, and not as vulnerable to loss of flying as pure melee.
Con: The mount can become a weak spot depending on class, and the character becomes a little MAD, needing dex, str, con, AND another stat (wis or cha). Fighter isn't a good fit for this either.
Also, I think a melee druid with a fast form and natural spell can prove great - move and use spells to counter and/or disrupt enemy casters, much the same way as the switch-hitter.
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Personally, for a martial magekiller, I'd make it a switch-hitter with focus on mobility. Move and use ranged attacks to disrupt enemy spellcasting until you get close enough to smack'em on the head.
Cavalier, barbarian, paladin or ranger, mounted with a lance, a sword, and a bow. Moves and uses readied actions to disturb casting while getting within charge distance. After lance charge, switch to sword.
Pro: Effective from the start, well-rounded and not as vulnerable to wind-wall as pure ranged, and not as vulnerable to loss of flying as pure melee.
Con: The mount can become a weak spot depending on class, and the character becomes a little MAD, needing dex, str, con, AND another stat (wis or cha). Fighter isn't a good fit for this either.Also, I think a melee druid with a fast form and natural spell can prove great - move and use spells to counter and/or disrupt enemy casters, much the same way as the switch-hitter.
the problem with this is that a mage can transmute rock to mud then quicken a windwall (if high enough in levels) and your character is completely shut down.not to mention contingent spell pretty much keeps any mage able to cast it from dying. killing a prepared mage played right is a 5 man chore.
the problem with this is that a mage can transmute rock to mud then quicken a windwall (if high enough in levels) and your character is completely shut down.not to mention contingent spell pretty much keeps any mage able to cast it from dying. killing a prepared mage played right is a 5 man chore.
Yeah, at levels 13+ you can "easily" quicken a windwall if you happen to have that prepared and happen to win initiative, but that's the very endgame. And if there's a wind wall up, the anti-caster should probably try to use some non-mundane missile attack to keep the caster on his toes; for paladins and I guess cavaliers (haven't really looked into the class), wands might be an option with UMD. For the others, some other kind of magic item that provides spell support.
And by then, you DO have a flying mount since far back, there's no question of that, so I don't see what rock to mud is about. And since you can double move and shoot pretty easily, or even RUN and shoot, I don't even think wind wall will be that great.
I don't think this thread is for theorycrafting if you can make an unbeatable wizardkiller, but rather what would be the best way to make an effective anti-caster character that can take of MOST casters encountered.
Contingency doesn't come into play until level 11, at the end of most AP's and yes, it's great at preventing the wizard from getting killed, but it's far more limited than some people seem to think it is. It's good to keep you from getting killed, but not very good at keeping you from getting unable to fight that very battle. Even if you put a "when I'm wounded, teleport me to my home" on it, the party will still be able to get the McGuffin the wizard is guarding.
EDIT: Note also that contingency is ONLY sor/wis, and rock to mud is only sor/wis and druid.
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the problem with this is that a mage can transmute rock to mud then quicken a windwall (if high enough in levels) and your character is completely shut down.not to mention contingent spell pretty much keeps any mage able to cast it from dying. killing a prepared mage played right is a 5 man chore.Yeah, at levels 13+ you can "easily" quicken a windwall if you happen to have that prepared and happen to win initiative, but that's the very endgame. And if there's a wind wall up, the anti-caster should probably try to use some non-mundane missile attack to keep the caster on his toes; for paladins and I guess cavaliers (haven't really looked into the class), wands might be an option with UMD. For the others, some other kind of magic item that provides spell support.
And by then, you DO have a flying mount since far back, there's no question of that, so I don't see what rock to mud is about. And since you can double move and shoot pretty easily, or even RUN and shoot, I don't even think wind wall will be that great.
I don't think this thread is for theorycrafting if you can make an unbeatable wizardkiller, but rather what would be the best way to make an effective anti-caster character that can take of MOST casters encountered.
Contingency doesn't come into play until level 11, at the end of most AP's and yes, it's great at preventing the wizard from getting killed, but it's far more limited than some people seem to think it is. It's good to keep you from getting killed, but not very good at keeping you from getting unable to fight that very battle. Even if you put a "when I'm wounded, teleport me to my home" on it, the party will still be able to get the McGuffin the wizard is guarding.
EDIT: Note also that contingency is ONLY sor/wis, and rock to mud is only sor/wis and druid.
oh im not trying to theorycraft.. g&@ d$$n i hate that crap. i was just pointing out that a purely mundane charatcer would have issues with a caster at higher levels. in pfs you dont need to worry about the casters as much as the monsters with them.
clerics (domain i think)and magus CAN have RTM and contingency on their lists.
oh im not trying to theorycraft.. g!! d%%n i hate that crap. i was just pointing out that a purely mundane charatcer would have issues with a caster at higher levels....
There's nothing bad with theorycrafting, it's just that this thread doesn't seem to be the place for it. XD
Oh, of course a mundane character will have issues with casters! XD Mundane characters will have issues with everything past a certain level...
But still, I'm thinking about ranger. I think a ranger would be GREAT. At 1st level, get a regular horse or whatever. Then at level 4, use it as your animal bond. When you get access to a flying mount via leadership, get a new animal companion - a bird, preferably. That way you have three ways of getting to the caster - your bird, your ranged attack, and moving into melee.
Also, invisible enemies, flying enemies, enemies with Contingencies, enemies who simply have the time to prepare. There isn't any such thing as a non-spellcasting spellcaster hunter after low levels, because spellcasting enemies are just too widely varied and martial classes have very small toolboxes. It's difficult to be prepared for a dragon, a storm giant, a druid, an illusion-focused wizard with contingencies, and any infernal tougher than a bearded devil on the same character at the same time, and basically impossible when you can't much change your toolset day to day.
As said, contingency is sor/wis only (barring a few cases of cleric and magus) and only level 11+ (and I think it's a rare sorcerer that has it before level 14), and still mostly saves the wizard from dying - it doesn't help him IN combat very much. A wand of see invisible isn't that expensive until you get better items for that, and invisibility is equally useful/easy to trumph for both sides. Flying mounts is a must at later levels, before that, potions of fly will have to do. I don't see exactly what's so hard about those different enemies, now with instant enemy. Storm giants and druids are pretty straight forward casters, and can usually fall to arrows/lances in the face. The same goes for some fiends. Dragons depend on the dragon type and if it's customized or not, but basically, fighting a dragon is like fighting a physically capable sorcerer. Illusions fall to gem of true seeing once you get it, barring mind blank which is only easily accessible at really high levels.
Also see AM BARBARIAN, who's toolbox is really just a hammer, but it took like eight pages before anyone could really come up with good countermeasures to him. Yes, it can be done, but if four fails for every one that succeeds, it's a pretty darn effective caster killer.
But yes, a wizard prepared for this very character can quite easily find countermeasures. Not ALL enemies are prepared wizards though.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32
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I love playing martial classes, and I understand that they would struggle with anti-caster duties once we move into higher levels. But it is still a fun challenge to try and build an effective one. I like how there isn't really one way to do something, and that we have multiple choices available for this.
As for an anti-caster spellcaster, I can see a few options posted here but most of the caster conversation is about their response to anti-casters.
I think it is interesting that, as of yet, I haven't come across NPCs whose training and profession focus on suppressing spell casting. In a world full of magic, wouldn't there be a least some form of that in the military or guard?
Back on topic:
What I will do is create and post three builds each for martial focus and caster focus. Then based on any critiques I receive I will adjust them.
I will make them all at level 10 and with the standard wealth for that level. How should I do the ability scores?
Also, once again, what skills, feats, and magic items need to be common in these builds?
A good question indeed. I really enjoy playing the melee classes and shutting down spellcasters can be a huge part of any adventure since most bosses or sub-bosses tend to be casters. Many ways to go about this. I currently am running the carrion crown adventure path and there are two characters who do it quite well. Both characters are level 11 monk and fighter.
The fighter is pretty much high strength with the whole focus and weapon spec tree. On top of that, melee weapon mastery, mage slayer and the three mountains weapon style feat in complete warrior. Attacks with +1 morning star are at +24/+19/+14, 1d8+16/20x2. DC 23 fort vs nauseated.
The monk is also high strength with emphasis on grappling. improved grapple, earths embrace, scorpion style, power attack, flying kick,improved trip and combat reflexes. Slap mage slayer on top of that and you have one nasty melee build against casters. Damage isn't as good as the fighter, Charging unarmed strike; +18, 1d12+1d10+7/20x2.
flurrying; +16/+16/+16/+11, 1d10+6/20x2
grapple damage is the same as flurry but if pinned,
becomes 1d10+1d12+6.
With scorpion style, if he hits with an unarmed strike he can start the grapple as a free action. Grapplers don't do as much damage but they do shut down alot of stuff opponents can do especially spellcasters with the somatic components.