So I am thinking of a new PC for PFS. Thinking Magus 5 blackblade archetype. Ninja 3 then full progression trickster.
I dm allot and see this as a great chance to learn some mechanics.
Thinking half elf high dex , int. Skill focus acrobatics.weapon finesse Dervish dance.
Viable build I don't intend to be a dpr machine us ki for extra base attack. But I would like to hit in the high their.
Garvedart, I'd running a ninja/magus right now, and I'd love to see your character sheet for comparison's sake.
Post was kinda from 3 years ago. Not really likely you'll get a reply from him.
Can you explain why you want to go Magus/Ninja exactly?
I know it was from a while ago, but if you don't ask, you don't get, so I took a shot.
Conceptually it sounded like a lot of fun, and it's turning out to be a lot of fun, especially since I made him a dhampir.
Backstory is that he's from a noble family in a country, a well-respected one, and he became a smuggler, which after being caught by his uncle resulted in him being exiled. The ninja was training from his family (they're from an eastern-style region), but they thought they were training a monk (har har), and they also thought they were training a wizard and someone who could be taking over the family estate.
I like a lot of the synergies in the classes and how they fill in gaps in the other (but not all of them). I've always liked rogues and the ninja was more along the lines of what I like to do, and the magus sounded interesting. Turns out they mesh really well together.
As it is, he's a Ninja4/Magus3, but I'm going to take magus pretty much from here on in, with a possible dip in lore warden for skills, BAB, and feat. Maybe. That's a long way off if I do.
I think Ninja doesn't really give you enough to be worth it for more than 2 levels, but if you are having fun, that's what counts.
Well, if you look at what the ninja gets from level 1-4, which is two ninja tricks, poison use, sneak attack of 2d6, and uncanny dodge (and no trace whoopeee). The two ninja tricks make a 4 level jaunt into ninja very much worth it, at least from my perspective, as well as the boost to reflex (not a magus' strong suit) not to mention the 48 skill points I get out of the deal as well, compared to the magus' 2+int. It makes the magus parts much more effective, and he gets to play the scout, face, and main damage dealer.
The best part of the 4 levels in ninja? Forgotten trick. It takes some of the load off my spellcasting through vanish, but as I level up and get the items I'm after, it will basically allow me to have on-demand high-level proficiency in any weapon I pick up through the use of Combat Trick (like on-demand Power Attack/Cleave, or Point-Blank Shot/Precise Shot/Rapid Shot, or any maneuver feat), or tailor my combat style to a given adversary when needed. Like I said, there's a surprising number of symmetries and complementary abilities, especially when added to a dhampir's natural abilities. I take the main tax feats and then add the extended ones as needed.
Mechanically, it's a blast (sometimes literally). In terms of role-play, it's also a blast.
Alright, now let's see what you are giving up:
>Magus 7 vs Magus 3 has:
-3rd level spells (vs. 1st)
-About 6-9 extra spells thrown about the levels.
-Spell recall (you now have about 6 extra spells)
-An arcana
-A bonus feat
-Medium armor prof
-Knowledge pool (you now know every single magus spell)
-Improved arcane pool (more points and better buff)>You give this up for situational 2d6 extra damage, skill points that you are already not short on (since you'llhave a pretty good INT as a magus), and that spells replace almost entirely, and 2 Ninja tricks that spell combat and first level spells replicate entirely.
I get to use SA quite a bit, because of the realm we're in (it's rather shadowy), and I also can feint quite well, so I can almost always get it. As far as the skills go, ninjas are rogues and get 8+int whereas a magus gets 2+int, not to mention having every skill in class except for two, heal and Survival.
Which translates into 48 skill points vs 24, and gives me a distinct advantage in spellcraft, Knowledge: Arcana/Religion/Planes/Nature, plus UMD, and stealth, and perception, and acrobatics, and Diplomacy, and Bluff, and Intimidate, as well as single points in a whole bunch of other skills too. Which I get to use pretty often.
I also took Spell Scars, lets me use pretty much any spell I have whenever I want, and I also have Pearls of Power. I'm probably not going up to Med armor (why give up my dex bonus?), I got 2 "feats" in ninja tricks, am still on track for my BAB, have a good set of saves all around, plus evasion, I myself can't be flanked unless by an 8th level rogue, have an AC of 20 (24 with shield).
I know it seems to you that I don't know what I'm doing. Let me assure you that I do.
>Forgotten trick is the only saving grace, but until you get a ring of ki storing, it takes 2 ki out of your, what, 4? to get a feat.
5, actually, soon to be 6, as well as 6 arcane points. And I don't mind waiting for it to get to full bloom. My DM has actually complained about how powerful my character is.
>Sure, you are having fun with it, but Magus 7 is objectively better. It pretty much won out at 3rd level spells.
You make it sound like fun is the secondary reason for playing the game: "Sure you're 'having fun', but your fun would be more fun if your fun was more like my idea of fun."
I play role-playing games for fun playing the character and not to make handsful of die-rolls for tons of damage. If I wanted to do that, I'd play Warhammer. I'm playing the character I specifically designed to be this way because I wanted to play a character with these characteristics and qualities for role-playing purposes. The fact that I built it this way should also have strongly suggested to you that DPR isn't my main concern from the outset.
For the record, I did take on a tunnel brute (CR9) almost single-handedly (with minor assist from one other party member) and win, at 6th level. So he does pretty well for damage-dealing, I think.
If you some of my other posts, you'd realize that I've likely read all of the tables you have, particularly the ones which list what abilities I get, and when. I also happen to have the books which contain the classes. I know exactly what I have given up. I built the character in this fashion, for this reason, because I wanted it to be this way. I designed it specifically for extreme versatility and some redundancy, to be highly skilled and also really nasty in combat. I give up things on either end for that versatility, but that's the cost.
>2 levels of ninja can be worth it for a Ki pool (double your Ki arcana if you are CHA heavy for ES maybe?), so you can get an extra attack when you spell combat, the single trick that can be forgotten trick (or you can retrain it into that later I guess), so you can grab the tricks you want once you get a ring of Ki storing, and maybe at low levels the skill points aren't bad. 4 levels is an overkill, plain and simple.
Well, that just, like, your opinion, man. I have another opinion, and I think 4 levels in ninja is just perfect. I might take another, specifically ninja level 5, just to offend you some more, because it's a dead level and I know it'll irk you. :P
And yes, I know a tunnel brute is CR7; my DM boosted it to CR9.
To feint you need two feats in build that is feat starved.
I think your are trying to do to much and you will not do anything well.
Unless you can attacking touch AC this build is behind on BAB.
If this is AP PC that tops out at 16 level he will end up with +9 that is lose of 3 BAB. That is huge for build Melee based.
STAT MAD you need INT (spells, arcane pool,& skills), CHA, ( KI, face skills, buff to feint) WIS ( to find traps ) this may be drop to 10, CON ( fort, HP, death door), STR to hit and damage, DEX ( AC, int, range stealth acrobatic) may to hit and damage but that will cost you 3 feats.
Feat you need 5 feats combat expertise, improve fient, weapon focus , weapon finesse, slashing grace. With AP build in mind that only leaves 3 open feats on extra KI, extra arcana, extra pool, extra trick.
You can not take combat trick to help you get ahead if you want to it use it with forget trick.
To make forget trick work well you need power attack, combat expertise , and point blank shot. More feats that you don't have room for.
I you think your role in four person table your weak skill, weak arcane, weak striker do loss of 3BAB. You don't file any role well.
For the sake of this awesome build, which I preffer with Kensai:
Riverwhip makes your attacks TOUCH attacks. Remember to take magical knack as a trait.
Spell Combat + Greater Invis + Swift for an extra attack.