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Extra damage is what?
Sneak attack
Stuff like Bane, Flaming dice dmg
Armor spikes are light martial weapons but the description of them says they deal extra dmg with a successful grapple.
Sneak attack dice dont add str mod to dmg. It makes sense that armor spikes would. The armor spikes description doesnt include any of the not multiplying the dmg on a crit wording like sneak attack does.
So is extra damage some kind of category that I dont have rules for?
Is each extra damage listing its own specific case in regards to multiplied in crit, or str mod added to dmg?
If it wasnt meant to add str mod to dmg it seems to me that they would have said add 1d6 armor spike dmg with a successful grapple. Spelled right out in the text.
If you dont know the answer please pump up that FAQ button in the top right of this post. Thanks.
Ah yes, I have heard this question before. It is a bit confusing due to the muddled text in the Armor Spike description. In essence, the first line roughly translates to Armor Spikes can be used to attack with during a grapple. The "extra damage" just means you can use it to deal damage when grappling.
Let's dive into the rules:
Armor Spikes:
Armor spikes deal extra piercing damage (see “spiked armor” on Table: Weapons) on a successful grapple attack. The spikes count as a martial weapon. If you are not proficient with them, you take a –4 penalty on grapple checks when you try to use them. You can also make a regular melee attack (or off-hand attack) with the spikes, and they count as a light weapon in this case. (You can't also make an attack with armor spikes if you have already made an attack with another off-hand weapon, and vice versa.) An enhancement bonus to a suit of armor does not improve the spikes' effectiveness, but the spikes can be made into magic weapons in their own right.
So we know that Armor Spikes can be used in a grapple to deal damage. The rules talk about "extra damage" but don't explain it, so let's look to the Grapple entry.
If we look in the Combat Chapter under the Combat Manuevers: Grapple heading we see this:
Once you are grappling an opponent, a successful check allows you to continue grappling the foe, and also allows you to perform one of the following actions (as part of the standard action spent to maintain the grapple).
[...]
Damage
You can inflict damage to your target equal to your unarmed strike, a natural attack, or an attack made with armor spikes or a light or one-handed weapon. This damage can be either lethal or nonlethal.
The picture becomes a little clearer. So we know that in order to deal damage with Armor Spikes during a grapple you must make a grapple check to maintain the grapple, choose Damage and choose the Armor Spikes to attack with. This works as dealing damage with a normal use of the weapon. Dealing damage with the Spikes during a grapple would be 1d6 + STR + Misc Mods.
I believe the reason the developers included the line about doing "extra" damage during a grapple is because:
Humanoid creatures without two free hands attempting to grapple a foe take a –4 penalty on the combat maneuver roll.
Which applies if you pull a weapon out into your free hands at any point during your grapple.
The extra spike dmg when you succeed on your CMB check is different than the damage option where you can attack with spikes, light or one handed weapon.
I am trying to determine if the spike dmg "extra dmg" works exactly like sneak attack in regards to adding str mod to it or not. It isnt worded the same. I have two conflicting lines of it being both a light martial weapon and the "extra dmg" text under the armor spike section.
I think it needs to be answered in FAQ because no rules point to either being right.
I think it needs to be answered in FAQ because no rules point to either being right.
Yes, the extra damage part does add confusion. In my opinion, I think it is just descriptive fluff. But, I'm all for clarifying the Core Rules. Also, you can FAQ your own post.
Bump for more FAQ tags on first post please