Okay that will work as well.
I found a really fun combination I wanted to share. Assuming that the Battle Sorcerer Martial Orders are available for Eldritch Heritage (may not be a good assumption), look at a single classed ranger who takes Eldritch Heritage: Knight of the Arcane Order. For their Order, they choose Order of the Star, which at first level gives the Templar talent. You now have a single classed Ranger with almost full progression 9th level spellcasting and Favored Terrains on steroids. I am sure this breaks something multiple somewheres...
Which naturally leads to some questions.
1. Does either Eldritch Heritage or Practiced Bloodline give the bloodline resistances? If they do not, then I assume for bloodline powers which scale in relation to the resistance bonus you calculate what it would be and use that.
2. Are the martial bloodlines available for Eldritch Heritage? Mindblade is awesome.
3. Does Practiced Bloodline allow you to gain higher level bloodline powers, or for Eldritch Heritage progression (level-2) to access higher level powers/increase resistances? The text about Practiced Bloodline stacking and replacing Improved/Greater EH is confusing me - do you have to take Practiced Bloodline three times to get the 9th level powers (Effective Bloodline level of 0 for anything beyond the first level power, taking it three times gives effective 12th level)?
4. A number of Ranger spells/items reference Favored Enemy bonuses, as in “your favored enemy bonuses” are/do/count/etc - are these assumed to not exist unless you have that favored enemy already, or to be based on your quarry bonuses? For Example: Mark of the Hunter (Spell), Enemy Spirit Pouch (Magic Item Compedium), Hunting Weapon (+1 bonus, MIC), Terrain Bond (Spell), Enemy Insight (Spell), Bane Bow (Spell), Exacting Shot (Spell), etc
5. Does Practiced Quarry give the benefit of Improved Quarry at high enough levels? Practiced Tracker explicitly calls out improvements, while Practiced Quarry does not.
6. Drinking a potion with a Sleight of hand to not provoke - can that be sped up from a move action to a swift (or free action, not on table; would be +20 to DC by extrapolation) by increasing the DC as noted for Fast Skill Use? Or is drinking a potion always a move action?
7. This may not be a KF thing but rather my unfamiliarity with animal companions - how do you advance an animal companion by HD? I understand that templates are just a straight CR increase and every 2 HD is +1 CR, but does increasing HD give feats, skill points, BAB increases, size increases, new attacks, etc? I've tried to look through both 3.5 and PF materials and cannot find a solid reference.
8. Is Practiced Bond a holdover from prior versions, when animal companions and familiar / arcane bonds gain abilities based on ranks in a skill, not class level?
Finally, a thought on Chaotic Mind/Adaptability/Beginners Luck: you could change the feats to negate 1/2/3/whatever points of bonus per 2/3/4/whatever ranks in a skill, BAB, Level, etc, which would take care of the pricing. You could do the above, and include text saying that if you actually take the feat, that limitation goes away - that’s clunky. Or, you could say that those feats must be taken at first level as part of character creation. Just my thoughts on dealing with them.
Can you ignore/suppress the dead condition what about petrification or unconscious with Heroic Defiance? I assume it allows you to ignore /suppress any condition.
Also do you regain use of this ability if you don't rest. An example being someone imprisons you does that mean for level rounds per day you can function normally despite being totally incapacitated the rest of the time?
Can you ignore/suppress the dead condition what about petrification or unconscious with Heroic Defiance? I assume it allows you to ignore /suppress any condition.
The way it's written, yes, you pretty much can. Of course, if you're petrified it already means your Dex has been drained to 0, so it's not much of a consolation that your immobile body isn't actually stone -- but Heroic Defiance can mean that you're neither paralyzed nor petrified, but just have Dex 0. For 16 rounds, starting at 16th level.)
Also do you regain use of this ability if you don't rest. An example being someone imprisons you does that mean for level rounds per day you can function normally despite being totally incapacitated the rest of the time?
It probably needs to be a general rule in the Into, "For any ability with a limited number of daily uses or duration, you must rest to regain full use of that ability. You do not regain them when unable to act (or dead)."
So you're OK with everyone taking defiance + heroic defiance, with feat mastery, and becoming unable to die or be crowd controlled for 16 rounds at level 11?
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So you're OK with everyone taking defiance + heroic defiance, with feat mastery, and becoming unable to die or be crowd controlled for 16 rounds at level 11?
Yep that's kinda right up this systems narrative especially for a martial. One of those "The castle guard watched as Alenthor dropped to his knees from the lich's spell his breath leaving his body. Fear gripped them as the horde of undead began approaching now that the knight had fallen. As the lich raised his staff again prepared to unleash death on the city before him Alenthor gave out a horrendous yell and stood shaking off the coils of death he swung his blade deep into the lich sundering it's soul from it's body. Knowing he had but a few moments before he was truely gone the knight gave a rallying cry and charged forth into the mass of undead before him." kinda things.
So you're OK with everyone taking defiance + heroic defiance, with feat mastery, and becoming unable to die or be crowd controlled for 16 rounds at level 11?
On first thought: probably. Remember, at level 12 a human fighter can be throwing 4 hero points a day at stuff like that, and it only takes two of them to take death off the table entirely, rather than temporarily. At upper levels (11+), the game is completely zonkers. "Kill it in direct combat" should really not always be everyone's go-to solution at that point.
There's a reason I prefer for campaigns to end around 10th level, as a player.
Now if only there were some of way of staying at that level while maintaining a satisfying sense of progression
Now if only there were some of way of staying at that level while maintaining a satisfying sense of progression
One thing I like to do is make every other adventure a "monetary loot/social status reward" adventure instead of a "leveling adventure." So it's almost like you're progressing along two tracks. Another suggestion is to use half-levels, as outlined in Chapter 1.
Playing one game per week or two weeks, it usually takes me years to get to 10th level. By that time, everyone else is ready for a different campaign. To keep from getting bored, I'll almost always have two campaigns with the same players, but with two different sets of PCs (and often 2 different DMs), going at the same time, switching off every other adventure or so. Sometimes, after a few years, someone will say, "Let's try some of the gonzo high-level stuff with Campaign A," and off we go, knowing that it's going to quickly get into comic-book territory.
1. Does either Eldritch Heritage or Practiced Bloodline give the bloodline resistances? If they do not, then I assume for bloodline powers which scale in relation to the resistance bonus you calculate what it would be and use that.
2. Are the martial bloodlines available for Eldritch Heritage? Mindblade is awesome.
3. Does Practiced Bloodline allow you to gain higher level bloodline powers, or for Eldritch Heritage progression (level-2) to access higher level powers/increase resistances? The text about Practiced Bloodline stacking and replacing Improved/Greater EH is confusing me - do you have to take Practiced Bloodline three times to get the 9th level powers (Effective Bloodline level of 0 for anything beyond the first level power, taking it three times gives effective 12th level)?
4. A number of Ranger spells/items reference Favored Enemy bonuses, as in “your favored enemy bonuses” are/do/count/etc - are these assumed to not exist unless you have that favored enemy already, or to be based on your quarry bonuses? For Example: Mark of the Hunter (Spell), Enemy Spirit Pouch (Magic Item Compedium), Hunting Weapon (+1 bonus, MIC), Terrain Bond (Spell), Enemy Insight (Spell), Bane Bow (Spell), Exacting Shot (Spell), etc
5. Does Practiced Quarry give the benefit of Improved Quarry at high enough levels? Practiced Tracker explicitly calls out improvements, while Practiced Quarry does not.
6. Drinking a potion with a Sleight of hand to not provoke – (a) can that be sped up from a move action to a swift (b) or free action, not on table; would be +20 to DC by extrapolation) by increasing the DC as noted for Fast Skill Use? Or is drinking a potion always a move action?
7. This may not be a KF thing but rather my unfamiliarity with animal companions - how do you advance an animal companion by HD? I understand that templates are just a straight CR increase and every 2 HD is +1 CR, but does increasing HD give feats, skill points, BAB increases, size increases, new attacks, etc? I've tried to look through both 3.5 and PF materials and cannot find a solid reference.
8. Is Practiced Bond a holdover from prior versions, when animal companions and familiar / arcane bonds gain abilities based on ranks in a skill, not class level?
1. Eldritch Heritage says, “You gain the first-level bloodline power for the selected bloodline. For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your number of ranks in Concentration –2, even if you have levels in sorcerer. You do not gain any of the other class abilities. So, no, it does not provide resistances. Practiced Bloodline states pretty clearly that it won’t give you the resistances in the first place, but does improve them if you already have them.
2. Yes.3. Practiced Bloodline says “Your effective sorcerer level for your sorcerer bloodline increases by +4, to a maximum effective level equal to your Hit Dice (even if you can't benefit from the full bonus immediately, if you later gain non caster-level HD you may be able to apply the rest of the bonus). This increase in effective level applies to bloodline powers gained and the level-dependent effects of your existing bloodline powers and resistances.” So, yes, you can gain the 9th, 15th, and/or even the 20th level bloodline powers.
Pretend you’re a sorcerer 3/fighter 4. Take PB once, and your effective level (for your existing 1st level power and existing resistances) becomes 7th. Take it again, and your effective sorcerer level (for purposes of powers and resistances) is 11th, which also allows you access to the 9th level bloodline power.
4. Remember the previous discussion about the need to redo PF items using the KF items rules. For spells, assume “favored enemy bonus” means “quarry bonus” unless the spell specifically affects only favored enemies, in which case you probably need them unless the referee is a total softie and lets you use them on quarry instead (which I probably wouldn’t).
5. Yes; it should.
6. (a) Yes; (b) no "extrapolation to free action" is possible – it’s not on the table for a reason.
7. New Hit Dice provide additional hp and skill points, and possibly BAB increase and new feat(s). That’s what HD do. Hit Dice don’t increase your size, much like a human wizard doesn’t automatically become Large when he hits a certain level. If you want a size increase, use the Giant template from the Pathfinder Bestiary. Increasing HD does not increase the number natural attacks—notice that a BAB +20 magical beast doesn’t get iterative attacks with its bite, for example.
8. Animal companions, under Mark of the Wild, do advance by skill ranks, just like for Leadership, so Practiced Bond is really not applicable. Wizards’ bonded objects work off class level, so the feat would apply to them. Familiars originally worked off Spellcraft, but they should really follow similar rules to the bonded objects.
Got it, thanks. I wasn't sure if the Practiced Bloodline feat just added a checkbox for the next level of power, still scaling off of the concentration ranks -2. IE, someone with no levels in sorcerer (since Eldritch heritage scales the same regardless of whether you have sorcerer levels) would be able to access the first level power at Concentration -2; Taking Practiced bloodline once would give the Bloodline resistances at 5 ranks concentration (5-2=3), twice would mean that at Concentration 11 (11-2=9) they would receive the 9th level power. Taking it a third time would allow the 15th level power at 17 ranks Concentration. That's how the EH/Improved EH/Greater EH seemed to work, and practiced bloodline referenced resistances so I included them.
The actual intention then is that you take Practiced Bloodline twice to access the 9th level power, and four times to gain access to the 15th level power, and can never get resistances without at least 3 levels in sorcerer, correct?
And yes, I am basically ignoring PF / 3.5 items in light of the prior discussions; I was asking more specifically whether spells which assumed a standard class feature were still relevant when that class feature is now an option. As is, a Ranger without favored enemies Lore would never want to cast Bane Bow, Exacting Shot, Enemy Insight, etc.
The actual intention then is that you take Practiced Bloodline twice to access the 9th level power, and four times to gain access to the 15th level power, and can never get resistances without at least 3 levels in sorcerer, correct?
Assuming 0 initial levels in sorcerer, and you're gaining the 1st level power using Eldritch Heritage, yes. Which ultimately means that, if you want that much sorcerer stuff, multiclassing with sorcerer is a much better way of doing it than taking a bajillion feats.
As is, a Ranger without favored enemies Lore would never want to cast Bane Bow, Exacting Shot, Enemy Insight, etc.
Correct. Which isn't to say there aren't plenty of spells they still do want to cast.
Question on Imbue Item and Numen; Does Imbue Item allow you to count things you craft for yourself at half-value for purposes of tracking numen, effectively giving a maximum of 2,000,000 numen if you somehow had the time and skills to craft everything yourself? Or is the 240,000 numen difference between Par and Max the benefit of Imbue Item, and everything counts as 100% value towards numen?
Basically, Crafting says to pay half the material costs for magical/masterwork items. Ch. 6 says that crafting items counts the item against your maximum numen.
Or is the 240,000 numen difference between Par and Max the benefit of Imbue Item, and everything counts as 100% value towards numen?
Yes, this. Instead of crafting for half cost, you're instead doubling your effective load -- don't do both.
Anything that says crafting is 1/2 off is a holdover from PF that I need to excise.
Is it still intended that there is a monetary cost associated with crafting?
I feel like due t how you're basically borrowing against your future Numen (as you cant nessecarily buy up to par next level) there's some leeway in this regard
Is it still intended that there is a monetary cost associated with crafting?
I feel like due t how you're basically borrowing against your future Numen (as you cant nessecarily buy up to par next level) there's some leeway in this regard
I hand out monetary wealth fairly liberally. By 6th level or so, we don't even track it.
I can say i do like the system more when gold is decoupled from character power progression.
I somewhat would like to toy with a crafting reagents subsystem. In that you would quest / seek out rare materials for items as I think that has potential it has to incentivize exploration. Though making such an implementation rewarding and non obtuse would be tricky.
I somewhat would like to toy with a crafting reagents subsystem. In that you would quest / seek out rare materials for items as I think that has potential it has to incentivize exploration. Though making such an implementation rewarding and non obtuse would be tricky.
That sounds like a fun addition! Please let me know if you come up with something.
Questions on animal companions from Mark of the Wild, and handle animal: Handle animal gives a DC increase for intelligent magical beasts, fey, and plants of +8, +12, and +16 respectively. Does an animal companion still receive that DC increase? So a Druid/Ranger with a fey companion effectively operates at a -12 modifier (including the +4 circumstance from link) in regards to their companion?
Secondly, if a template changes the creature type to something that is no longer animal, fey, or plant, I assume that creature no longer qualifies as an animal companion short of explicit permission from the referee for in-game reasons?
To Firewarrior - Have you seen the PF rules for dynamic item creation (near the bottom of the page)? That might give you some ideas.
I had a realization and wanted to share my appreciation for this system; it is very easy to choose a singular focus for a concept, and then realize it to the extent that your characters is now the best in the world at it. It is much more difficult to create a character who is superb in two or more areas; but very easy to make one excellent in two areas. It is difficult to create a character excellent in three or more areas, but still very easy to create a character who is good in four or five. Finally, it is hard to create a character good at everything, but easy to create a jack of all trades who can get by.
All in all, a very simple and elegant scaling that the mathematical part of my soul quite enjoys. Thank you.
It's also incredibly easy to come up with a counter for nearly every possible build. Despite the sheer strength of certain abilities they almost always have a hard counter.
Questions on animal companions from Mark of the Wild, and handle animal: Handle animal gives a DC increase for intelligent magical beasts, fey, and plants of +8, +12, and +16 respectively. Does an animal companion still receive that DC increase? So a Druid/Ranger with a fey companion effectively operates at a -12 modifier (including the +4 circumstance from link) in regards to their companion?
You generally don't need to make checks to get a bonded companion to cooperate, so that's probably not important.
Secondly, if a template changes the creature type to something that is no longer animal, fey, or plant, I assume that creature no longer qualifies as an animal companion short of explicit permission from the referee for in-game reasons?
It's deliberately left gray as a "see-what-the-table-consensus-is" thing.
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I had a realization and wanted to share my appreciation for this system; it is very easy to choose a singular focus for a concept, and then realize it to the extent that your characters is now the best in the world at it. It is much more difficult to create a character who is superb in two or more areas; but very easy to make one excellent in two areas. It is difficult to create a character excellent in three or more areas, but still very easy to create a character who is good in four or five. Finally, it is hard to create a character good at everything, but easy to create a jack of all trades who can get by.
All in all, a very simple and elegant scaling that the mathematical part of my soul quite enjoys. Thank you.
That was the goal, anyway -- I appreciate the feedback.
Does the Ranger's Hunter's Critical Feat intentionally not apply to the ranger's quarry?
Does the Ranger's Hunter's Critical Feat intentionally not apply to the ranger's quarry?
I would say yes it was since Quarry doesn't specify a favored group for the extra crits or ability to crit to function off of.
Quarry is a potential path to qualifying for the feat, though. You could take the feat without having any favored enemies for it to apply to.
It should apply to quarry. I got too sloppy with the conversion of the original text.
Prerequisites: Quarry and/or favored enemy bonus +3.
Benefit: Select one of your favored enemy types that is normally subject to critical hits. Whenever you attack this type of creature, the threat range of whatever weapon you are using increases by 1 (e.g., a longsword goes ftom 19-20/x2 to 18-20/x2). Oter effects that expand the critical threat range (keen, Improved Critical) are always applied first.
I think it might apply to quarried targets, though the language is unclear.
It might just be a specific enemy type that you could quarry or a group that you have favored enemy for.
The latter is applicable because other classes can get favored enemy (but not quarry) like fighter. Meaning they could qualify for the feat but only against a creature type that they have favored enemy for.
However a Ranger could pick the feat for any enemy type regardless of weather or not they actually have spent a Favored enemy talent for that enemy type.
Weather or not they actually need to be quarried is another matter
Question about the Sevenfold Veil Sorcerer's warding. Once the Socerer has Innate Meta-magic (Shape spell) can they manifest the variant warding at will? If not how does one determine uses per day?
Also I can't seem to find the feat Spell perfection anywhere in the Documents? Am I missing it or does it no longer exist? If It no longer exists is that intentional or just an oversight?
Question about the Sevenfold Veil Sorcerer's warding. Once the Socerer has Innate Meta-magic (Shape spell) can they manifest the variant warding at will? If not how does one determine uses per day?
It still costs a spell slot, since that's a function of the warding itself and not of the metamagic.
Also I can't seem to find the feat Spell perfection anywhere in the Documents? Am I missing it or does it no longer exist? If It no longer exists is that intentional or just an oversight?
It was intentionally removed, as were things like Divine Metamagic and night sticks. Free and even discounted metamagic is way too easily abused, especially if allowed to run rampant. There are only a few remaining instances (generalist wizard's metamagic mastery, sorcerer's impromptu metamagic, the Sudden Metamagic feat).
Sorry let me clarify. Can the Sorcerer use the other configurations (wall and Area) whenever they manifest a warding (at-will) or are they limited to 3/Day Depending on the level of the warding manifested.
If that's the case then what is the level adjustment for Shape spell (for the purposes of determining uses / day)?
Ah -- I see where you're coming from.
The warding is essentially an emanation, but only 5 ft. in diameter; consider it a single-target effect. Per the Shape Spell feat, Shaping a ray or single-target effect to a wall is a +2 spell level adjustment; an emanation is a +3 spell level adjustment.
However, the prestige class in 3.5e could shape the wardings at will, and I can't see a strong reason the KF sorcerer shouldn't also do so, especially since wardings cost spell slots to activate.
Alright, that's where i was leaning too. If for no other reason then keeping track of that math would be annoying, especially if the base spell level of the Warding changed depending on what colors you chose
Howdy!
Question about selective spell [hopefully this wasn't addressed already!].
SELECTIVE SPELL [METAMAGIC]
Your allies need not fear friendly fire.
Prerequisite: Spellcraft 1 rank per original (unmodified) level of the spell to be affected.
Benefit: When casting a selective spell with an area effect, you can choose a number of targets in the area equal to your spellcasting attribute modifier. These targets are excluded from the effects of your spell. Spells that do not have an area of effect do not benefit from this feat.
Metamagic Cost: +1 level.
Was huge expansion of utility intended? As written, you could apply it to an Antimagic Field, Wall of Fire, Cloudkill, etc. Likely a Wall of Force too. Tons of horrifying combinations.
Should it only work with instantaneous spells, like Fireball, Holy Word, etc?
Thanks!
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Selective Spell - Was huge expansion of utility intended? As written, you could apply it to an Antimagic Field, Wall of Fire, Cloudkill, etc. Likely a Wall of Force too. Tons of horrifying combinations. Should it only work with instantaneous spells, like Fireball, Holy Word, etc?
I'm fine with it applying to things like a wall of fire or wall of force, and with the various cloud spells (I guess I'd need a caveat that they still obscure vision, however).
AMF would be a 7th level spell, meaning a (minimum) 13th level caster; as a point of comparison, an 18th level barbarian can do that any time he rages. So, a somewhat higher level increase cost for non-instantaneous spells seems like a good idea. Thanks for the suggestion!
As written it'd only apply to targets that begin within the area of the spell if that limiter doesn't apply to non instantaneous spells that would need to be specified as well.
Which would mean it couldn't apply to wall of force as no-one can start within it's area, unless it's possible to shape spell a wall of force into another shape.
Superstition says you get it at 2nd level, then every 4 levels thereafter (2, 6, 10, 14, 18). But the Barbarian class table shows you getting it at level 4, then every 4 levels thereafter (4, 8, 12, 16, 20).
This was consistent from the original post. Which is accurate?
Also, I don't see an entry for class specific feats like "Extra Rage Power" or "Extra Fighter Talent" (Though to be fair, I don't think the latter ever existed, though the former definitely did).
Is this intentional? If it is, I'm pretty sure one of the totems grants a non-existent "Extra Rage" feat.
While we're on that subject, can we change the Frog Totem's level 11 ability (which I'm pretty sure is shared by another totem actually) to just straight up give you the "Superstition, Greater" Rage Power? It no longer has any prereqs, and doing so would allow those barbarians to select rage powers further down the "Superstitious" line (Spellbreaker & Aura of Superstition) without having to select completely redundant Spell Resistance.
Also, I don't see an entry for class specific feats like "Extra Rage Power" or "Extra Fighter Talent" (Though to be fair, I don't think the latter ever existed, though the former definitely did). Is this intentional?
Yes, very much intentional. Major class features should be better than feats, IMHO, and therefore feats granting them aren't something I want to encourage (except for the "Practiced X" feats, which are more to facilitate multi-classing).
While we're on that subject, can we change the Frog Totem's level 11 ability ( (a)which I'm pretty sure is shared by another totem actually) to just (b) straight up give you the "Superstition, Greater" Rage Power? It no longer has any prereqs, and (c) doing so would allow those barbarians to select rage powers further down the "Superstitious" line (Spellbreaker & Aura of Superstition) without having to select completely redundant Spell Resistance.
(a) Yes, the Ouroboros totem gives SR at 11th level as well.
(b) SR as a totem feature is better than the rage power, insofar as it's active at all times instead of only when you're raging.(c) Spellbreaker and Aura of Superstition should instead say "You must already have spell resistance (through the greater superstition power or from some other source) in order to select this ability."
I am not sure where I went wrong...
So 8th level character, Human Paragon 4, Barbarian 1, Fighter 1, Cleric 1, and Ranger 1 has:
- +4 total racial bonus to attributes
- Potentially up to ten new class skills (can get basically every skill in class with this and multiclassing)
- Bonus feats: 1 (any) from Human Paragon, 1 (Limited list) Barbarian Totem, 1 (Limited list) Cleric, 2 (Combat) Fighter, 1 (Combat Style) Ranger for a total of 6 or more;
- Rage as a 4th level barbarian, DR, Superstition +1, and 3rd level totem ability
- Channeling and 4th level domain abilities as a 4th level cleric
- Quarry and 2 ranger lores as a 4th level Ranger
- Weapon Training, Aptitude, Grit, and 2 fighter talents as a 4th level fighter
- Cleric Spell Capacity 3rd
- Ranger Spell Capacity 3rd
Effectively Barbarian 4, Fighter 4, Cleric 4, Ranger 4 (though the spell casting is slightly delayed on the cleric)... Almost 16 levels of classes by 8th level?
Am I reading this right? I realize it makes much more of a "wide" character than a "narrow/specialized" one, but synergy and theurgy with all classes gives some hefty multiclassing bonuses.
Human Paragon 4, Barbarian 1, Fighter 1, Cleric 1, and Ranger 1 has... (infinite stuff). Am I reading this right? I realize it makes much more of a "wide" character than a "narrow/specialized" one, but synergy and theurgy with all classes gives some hefty multiclassing bonuses.
What the human paragon ability says:
Class Synergy (Ex): Human paragons are endlessly adaptable. Human paragon levels provide Strong synergy towards the class features (not including spellcasting progression) of all other classes.
What it does NOT say:
Human paragon levels provide Strong synergy towards the class features (not including spellcasting progression) of all other classes. This applies to existing features, and for purposes of gaining new class features.
The class tables list class features gained by class level. Synergy features apply to the features listed (in the case of the human paragon, all the ones you've already obtained), but not "everything." If synergy ever allows you to gain new class features, that will always specifically be spelled out.
So, you're reading what's there correctly, but you're also adding a sentence that's not there.
What you would actually have:
Got it! That's much more reasonable. Thanks for the clarification.
Ponders how insane Gestalt Kirthfinder would get...
A well formatted document brings me joy like no other in a strange fashion.
Love hearing the continued development Kirth.
I am planning to use kirthfinder for my upcoming campaign but I also really really love path of war. I am planning to allow it side by side with the dynamic martial classes presented here.
I can see some Feats allowing PoW full initiator (stalker, warder, zealot etc) creating issues. I am determined to make your subsystem work with PoW though so if anyone thinks that some Feats should be prohibited to avoid extreme power creep let me know.
So far I am thinking that Multiattack should not be allowed to initiator classes to prevent problematic boost + full attack + benefits of iterative attacks and Multiattack feat presented in kirthfinder.
Do you guys have other suggestions? What other feat will skyrocket PoW classes efficiency?
Only warder, stalker, warlord, zealot and harbinger will be allowed.
PS: I insist on PoW classes to give some of my newbies and non optimizers the ability to be efficient as a martial if they so desire. I could literally spent days making new builds with kirthfinder rules but most of my players are less inclined to do so. At the cost of efficiency.
So is it more you want to boost martials or that POW has a lot of cool class features / options that you want people to have access to?
I'm hesitant to say just add the POW classes as class design in KF is predicated on the assumption that each class filling a specific mechanical and thematic niche. The idea, in part (as far as I'm aware) was to get away from the glut of classes inherent in 3.5 systems and instead just continual expand on the existing classes with modular design options which increases design flexibility / viable builds an order of magnitude (in my opinion).
If you worry about martials being inefficient at murder in KF your concern is unwarranted, I find the free damage granted to all the martial classes keeps their DPR well within acceptable bounds if not optimized, and borderline ludicrous if optimized. The floor to make a competent martial has been lowed substantially (in my opinion).
I'm admittedly unfamiliar with Path of war and the "Book of Weeabo fightn magic" but what I would suggest is taking core / iconic aspects or features of the classes you listed and turning those abilities into Talents for existing Kirthfinder classes as long as they fit with the theme of the class and are not already covered. I'd suggest this instead of adding a new class entirely, to keep with the modular design philosophy. For example some of the Stalkers Arts would make decent rogue talents. Stances / boosts could also be adapted in this way or added as spells that someone could take with Magical talent or via multi-classing with a casting class.
Thanks for the answer. What I am aiming is to help my players who want to play a martial but are not good at making characters. They are completely new to the game. PoW and kirthfinder go a long way to make martials interesting and fun to play. However I am afraid that the mechanical depth of kirthfinder martials might be a huge wall of an obstacle for my player to overcome. They will have to keep track of way too many things and way to many modifiers.
Hence I am going for path of war. A lot of the issues are solved with spell like maneuvers they can easily understand and keep track while allowing them to do cool stuff in combat. I am wondering if mixing kirthfinder Feats will make PoW classes over the top. And if that's the case which Feats will be the most dangerous to allow?
As I said I am determined to make this work and I just want advice on what Feats should I be careful with and which one should I flat out forbid.
I'm not familiar with PoW, but if it's anything like the 3.5e Tome of Battle, most of that book's material is already resent in KF in the form of [Strike] and [Stance] feats. The primary difference is that, instead of only having access to a certain number of maneuvers at a time, you always have access to all your feats -- the cost of use is in action economy (standard action strikes, stances preventing movement).
If your players are relatively inexperienced, this sort of setup might be more intuitive than the (IMHO) overly-complex maneuver initiation rules from the ToB.