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How much would it cost for the Permanency spell cast for splells like
bestow weapons proficency, Bless Weapon, efortless armor?
The following spells, found in the Pathfinder RPG Core Rulebook, are not legal for play and may never be used, found, purchased, or learned in any form by PCs playing Pathfinder Society scenarios: awaken, permanency, reincarnate.
There is no cost, as it is not allowed.
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Lou, those spells are not listed among the spells normally available with permanency.
My suggestion would be to get with your GM and see if he will allow them, the both of you could look at the costs of similar spells and work it out.
The spells listed are only really a sample of the workable ones, on top of that there a many spells that have been released since the PFRPG came out. Surely some of those are contenders for the permanency effect spell.
One thing I will note though is the grouping of the spells you listed. They fall into the combat bonus grouping which many GMs are cautious with messing around with, myself included. The ones you listed however are not covered by normal enchantments and such and thus would welcome candidates at my table with either permanency or items.
Edit: oh, crap this is the pfs section. Boy do I feel sheepish. Alright you baaaad boy, but no more freebies. :-)
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Mark, the spells that I asked about were published after the core rule book where the list of permanency spells were listed. Pehaps Mark moreland should do an update for newly published materials.
To ban permanency for new spells just because they are not in old material is just plain stupid and why would I buy new product if I cannot use it in PFS.
This is a big problem I see in PFS, all pubished material by Pazio
should be legal by defalut in PFS unless it is placed on the banned list by Mark Moreland or whom ever from Pazio that works with Mark. The hodge odge way they are doing it needs to be done away with.
Venture-Captain, Oregon—Portland
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To ban permanency for new spells just because they are not in old material is just plain stupid and why would I buy new product if I cannot use it in PFS.
I'm confused, why should you be able to cast permanency for the new spells in the first place? It's always been clearly stated in The Guide itself, as Mark Garringer quoted earlier, that permanency isn't allowed in PFS play. You can still use the new spells, you just can't make them permanent. Unless you're saying you only buy new material for the spells you can make permanent, but that's a separate issue.
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OK, there is a misunderstanding here along with an opinion.
Let us start with a fact to clear up the misunderstanding. The fact is permanency has never been allowed in PFS, not for any spell old or new.
I am sorry to say I created some confusion by not realizing it was a PFS question when I responded.
Spells
The following spells, found in the Pathfinder RPG Core
Rulebook, are not legal for play and may never be used, found,
purchased, or learned in any form by PCs playing Pathfinder
Society scenarios: awaken, permanency, reincarnate.
Any spell cast by a PC during the course of a scenario
that is still active at the end of a scenario ends when the
scenario does. For example, if your cleric PC casts bless on
the party and bless is still active when the scenario ends,
the bless spell ends at the conclusion of the scenario. This
includes spells with an instantaneous or permanent
duration, such as continual flame, create undead or fabricate.
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Mark, the spells that I asked about were published after the core rule book where the list of permanency spells were listed. Pehaps Mark moreland should do an update for newly published materials.
You are missing the point that Permanency is not allowed in PFS at all, therefore it doesn't matter one bit weather it's a Core Rulebook spell, an APG spell, an Ultimate Magic spell, or an as yet unpublished Dragon Empires spell. None of them can ever be made Permanent in PFS play, as the spell Permanency itself is not legal.
Hope that's a little clearer now.
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Sorry guys I did not realize that Permanency was banned in PFS play
I am only playing my first caster in PFS so I am not realy up on all the spells that you can use not use in PFS.
I realy think some OP 1 spells should be added as enchantments but thats just my oppion.
Thanks for all your quick input on the subject
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Mark, the spells that I asked about were published after the core rule book where the list of permanency spells were listed. Pehaps Mark moreland should do an update for newly published materials.You are missing the point that Permanency is not allowed in PFS at all, therefore it doesn't matter one bit weather it's a Core Rulebook spell, an APG spell, an Ultimate Magic spell, or an as yet unpublished Dragon Empires spell. None of them can ever be made Permanent in PFS play, as the spell Permanency itself is not legal.
Hope that's a little clearer now.
If it becomes legal can we then discuss it? ;p
(I really wish it was legal).
If it becomes legal can we then discuss it? ;p
(I really wish it was legal).As long as it would be tracked and properly paid for there really isn't a reason to have it banned.
It's more of a 'it's always been this way in organized campaigns' kind of thing. It's part of the core rules and really shouldn't be excluded.
I know in LG you had sorcerers electing to take see invis as a known spell when they might not have, and then just spammed casting it every 2-4hours.
-James
I suspect that like all house rules, permanency comes down to the campaign GM's individual prejudices against parts of the rules.
If you look at the things that are banned within the campaign, by and large they affect casters more than they affect non-casters. Whole swath's of UM are completely banned from PFS, magic item creation is largely banned, even permanent and instantaneous spells end at end of scenario. (Though I've never seen an actual logical explanation of why Cure Light Wounds, Remove Disease, Raise Dead, and Restoration don't also end at end of scenario.)
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As long as it would be tracked and properly paid for there really isn't a reason to have it banned.
It's more of a 'it's always been this way in organized campaigns' kind of thing. It's part of the core rules and really shouldn't be excluded.
I know in LG you had sorcerers electing to take see invis as a known spell when they might not have, and then just spammed casting it every 2-4hours.
-James
Well you could still dispel a permenacy spell so I'm guessing the sorcerer would/should have a scroll as back up. Anyway maybe if we get enough people we can them to change it to legal status ;p.
I suspect that like all house rules, permanency comes down to the campaign GM's individual prejudices against parts of the rules.
If you look at the things that are banned within the campaign, by and large they affect casters more than they affect non-casters. Whole swath's of UM are completely banned from PFS, magic item creation is largely banned, even permanent and instantaneous spells end at end of scenario. (Though I've never seen an actual logical explanation of why Cure Light Wounds, Remove Disease, Raise Dead, and Restoration don't also end at end of scenario.)
Wait does that mean my characters are dead then? ;p
Venture-Captain, Michigan—Mt. Pleasant
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Whole swath's of UM are completely banned from PFS, magic item creation is largely banned, even permanent and instantaneous spells end at end of scenario. (Though I've never seen an actual logical explanation of why Cure Light Wounds, Remove Disease, Raise Dead, and Restoration don't also end at end of scenario.)
You know, I was just about to bring this up for discussion. Add onto that make whole too (was working on a post for the broken gun thread). The GtPFSOP used to mention the Instantaneous/permanent line in purchasing spellcasting services section, but it no long is there. The only place it mentions permanent/instant spells ending after scenario is:
Any spell cast by a PC during the course of a scenario
that is still active at the end of a scenario ends when the
scenario does. For example, if your cleric PC casts bless on
the party and bless is still active when the scenario ends,
the bless spell ends at the conclusion of the scenario. This
includes spells with an instantaneous or permanent
duration, such as continual flame, create undead or fabricate.
So, does this mean that Spells cast by NPC's last now? And if a PC caster casts raise dead, the character who received the spell now dies at the end of a scenario? Something to think on... (Or get answered by Mark...) ;)
RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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The whole "instantaneous spells end at the conclusion of a scenario" is vague. Animate dead goes away, but raise dead doesn't. Rusting grasp goes away, but mending doesn't.
What finally made the idea click for me is realizing that fireball goes away. Well, sure. If you take damage from a fireball, you heal up gradually and are at full health at the beginning of the next scenario. So, spells fade between scenarios, rather than blinking out. Blindness is normally a permanent spell, but it fades in PFS -- maybe there's an ablative spell-disruption field overlaying the Absalom lodge? Cure Serious Wounds ends, but gradually, allowing natural healing to take over as it fades away. Likewise, the magic of a make whole spell evaporates, but the PC is probably physically repairing the item during down time, making up for the dwindling dwoemer.
The whole "instantaneous spells end at the conclusion of a scenario" is vague. Animate dead goes away, but raise dead doesn't. Rusting grasp goes away, but mending doesn't.
What finally made the idea click for me is realizing that fireball goes away. Well, sure. If you take damage from a fireball, you heal up gradually and are at full health at the beginning of the next scenario. So, spells fade between scenarios, rather than blinking out. Blindness is normally a permanent spell, but it fades in PFS -- maybe there's an ablative spell-disruption field overlaying the Absalom lodge? Cure Serious Wounds ends, but gradually, allowing natural healing to take over as it fades away. Likewise, the magic of a make whole spell evaporates, but the PC is probably physically repairing the item during down time, making up for the dwindling dwoemer.
Nope, still doesn't work. If that were true, then a character killed by a fireball wouldn't ever need to pay for raise dead. He'd simply wait for the scenario to end and be just fine and dandy.
The rule makes no actual sense in application. Either all spells stop, or none of them do.
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(Though I've never seen an actual logical explanation of why Cure Light Wounds, Remove Disease, Raise Dead, and Restoration don't also end at end of scenario.)
Because those spells are not permanent effects. They are instantaneous effects. Yes the healing is permanent, but the actual spell effect is not. It instantaneously causes the healing to occur.
Just like the damage from a fireball is permanent because the spell is instantaneous.
Lets not get pedantic with are arguing over rules minutia and why certain rules and/or spells are not allowed in OP.
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(Though I've never seen an actual logical explanation of why Cure Light Wounds, Remove Disease, Raise Dead, and Restoration don't also end at end of scenario.)Because those spells are not permanent effects. They are instantaneous effects. Yes the healing is permanent, but the actual spell effect is not. It instantaneously causes the healing to occur.
Just like the damage from a fireball is permanent because the spell is instantaneous.
Lets not get pedantic with are arguing over rules minutia and why certain rules and/or spells are not allowed in OP.
You're not reading the rules. The rule specifically includes instantaneous effects (such as healing and fireball).
The following spells, found in the Pathfinder RPG Core
Rulebook, are not legal for play and may never be used, found,
purchased, or learned in any form by PCs playing Pathfinder
Society scenarios: awaken, permanency, reincarnate.
Any spell cast by a PC during the course of a scenario
that is still active at the end of a scenario ends when the
scenario does. For example, if your cleric PC casts bless on
the party and bless is still active when the scenario ends,
the bless spell ends at the conclusion of the scenario.This includes spells with an instantaneous or permanent
duration, such as continual flame, create undead or fabricate.
It's not pedantic to want the rules to mean what the rules say, instead of what some people think that they might be trying to say. Either the rules matter, or we can all just simply play whatever game pleases us at the time, and I can start writing awesome boons into character sheets.
"You are appointed head of the Church of Aroden. You may now use the title Pope, and gain a +10 circumstance bonus to diplomacy and sense motive roles when dealing with any church official, regardless of deity."
"You are granted permanent rights to sleep with Venture Captain Eliza Petulingo, When doing so, she is required to scream your name at least seven times, followed by either "oh yes", or "oh gods". This boon grants you a +2 circumstance bonus when dealing with other female venture captains."
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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It's not pedantic to want the rules to mean what the rules say, instead of what some people think that they might be trying to say. Either the rules matter, or we can all just simply play whatever game pleases us at the time, and I can start writing awesome boons into character sheets.
Fozzy,
I don't want to sound negative here, but there's never going to be an organized play environment where the rules-as-written are 100% accurate, complete, and exhaustive.
You claim here is that the situation allows you to ignore any rules as you please, write made-up boons that other GMs would have to abide by, and generally act like a jerk.
Organized play is probably not a suitable environment for someone who requires the rules be perfect.
It's not pedantic to want the rules to mean what the rules say, instead of what some people think that they might be trying to say. Either the rules matter, or we can all just simply play whatever game pleases us at the time, and I can start writing awesome boons into character sheets.Fozzy,
I don't want to sound negative here, but there's never going to be an organized play environment where the rules-as-written are 100% accurate, complete, and exhaustive.
You claim here is that the situation allows you to ignore any rules as you please, write made-up boons that other GMs would have to abide by, and generally act like a jerk.
Organized play is probably not a suitable environment for someone who requires the rules be perfect.
If I were snarky, I might point out that Organized play is probably not a suitable environment for someone who thinks they can make up rules about whether or not faction missions make a PC unplayable.
Hmm.
Rules are. Or they aren't. If a rule isn't applicable as written, then it's a poorly written rule. Pointing out poorly written rules should be welcomed, rather than sniffed at, as you appear to be doing.
A prossible reason that the rule is poorly written is that any reasoning behind it is sketchy at best ("we don't want PC's to be able to create effects that last beyond the scenario" "Really, what about healing?" "uh, except healing" "restoration?", "uh, that too." "raise dead?" "Oh, bringing someone back from dead is fine." "What about animate dead?"), and without a good way to differentiate between goodspell and badspell, we're left with badrule.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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If I were snarky, I might point out that Organized play is probably not a suitable environment for someone who thinks they can make up rules about whether or not faction missions make a PC unplayable.
Fozzy, I don't know what "If I were snarky, I might" does as a rhetorical device. I have repeatedly explained that I follow the guide to the best of my understanding, and I take offense at your claim that I am making up rules.
I request an apology.
If I were snarky, I might point out that Organized play is probably not a suitable environment for someone who thinks they can make up rules about whether or not faction missions make a PC unplayable.Fozzy, I don't know what "If I were snarky, I might" does as a rhetorical device. I have repeatedly explained that I follow the guide to the best of my understanding, and I take offense at your claim that I am making up rules.
I request an apology.
There is no portion of the guide that allows a GM to remove a character from PFS organized play, yet you assert that there is.
There is no portion of the guide that allows a GM to change a character's alignment, against the wishes of the player, you you state that you have done such.
There is no portion of the guide that asserts that the completion of any faction mission is an "evil act", or that "evil acts" are in any way, shape or form prohibited in organized play. You you assert that such are.
Yes you are making up rules.
No. For these reasons, your request for an apology is denied.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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There is no portion of the guide that allows a GM to remove a character from PFS organized play, yet you assert that there is.
Nope, never claimed that ws in the Guide. That's a post from Mark, instructing GMs how to interpret the Guide.
There is no portion of the guide that allows a GM to change a character's alignment, against the wishes of the player, you you state that you have done such.
Nope. The core rulebook is the source that allows a GM to change a player character's alignment. As for having done so in PFS, I've never made that claim. Ever.
There is no portion of the guide that asserts that the completion of any faction mission is an "evil act", or that "evil acts" are in any way, shape or form prohibited in organized play. You you assert that such are.
Nope. That's from Josh Frost.
Seriously, dude. You're being snarky. Request for an apology.
There is no portion of the guide that allows a GM to remove a character from PFS organized play, yet you assert that there is.Nope, never claimed that ws in the Guide. That's a post from Mark, instructing GMs how to interpret the Guide.
There is no portion of the guide that allows a GM to change a character's alignment, against the wishes of the player, you you state that you have done such.Nope. The core rulebook is the source that allows a GM to change a player character's alignment. As for having done so in PFS, I've never made that claim. Ever.
There is no portion of the guide that asserts that the completion of any faction mission is an "evil act", or that "evil acts" are in any way, shape or form prohibited in organized play. You you assert that such are.Nope. That's from Josh Frost.
Seriously, dude. You're being snarky. Request for an apology.
A rules conversation with someone who ignores the rules is by its nature a waste of time, so I will stop wasting my time in this conversation with you. Should you actually wish to discuss rules, and not random blog posts, I'll be glad to re-engage with you.
Stop looking for an apology when you are in the wrong, and I suspect you will be much smurfier.
