My friend is running the new csmpeighn and I was wondering which of the two would be better. A pure fighter (archer or weapon master) or an arcane archer. I will be an elf and we are playing 20 point point buy.
Any advice would be most appreciated as I seem to have bad luck and die often >.<
Thanks
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It's really up to player preference. I would assume that the Fighter would be inherently better off, just because they... tend to be the best at combat. However, the Arcane Archer is more fun, imho, and being able to shoot fireballs centered on arrows is just COOL. Plus, you can get Gravity Bow and Arrow Eruption, a combination that can be SO devastating it's glorious.
Again, the Fighter is probably better mechanically, but the Arcane Archer is SO much more fun to me.
An elf Magus can qualify for Arcane Archer without multiclassing. And if you go with the Myrmidarch archetype, you'll eventually gain Weapon Training and Armor Training, as well as ranged Spellstrike meaning you can fire off stuff like Scorching Ray through your arrows.
Combine that with the Arcane Pool abilities and the extra arrow imbues from AA, and you'll get an absurd amount of magic damage on your arrows, while being able to wear armor and gaining access to the more important spells.
Conversely, a pure fighter archer can lay down some serious damage. Or if you take the Archer archetype, you can focus on ranged combat maneuvers and have a ton of battlefield control.
My friend is running the new csmpeighn and I was wondering which of the two would be better. A pure fighter (archer or weapon master) or an arcane archer. I will be an elf and we are playing 20 point point buy.
Any advice would be most appreciated as I seem to have bad luck and die often >.<
Thanks
Without more to go on I'd say go with a pure fighter archer. Don't bother with an archetype.
-James
If you are going to be a fighter who concentrates on being an archer, why wouldn't you take the archer archetype?
The Archer archetype is not good.
I usually play "arcane archers" as Fighter 1/Wizard 5/Eldritch Knight 10. You end up much better off in the long run in terms of spellcasting and feats than you do with Arcane Archer...and if you play till high levels this becomes even more apparent as you can eventually get 9th level spells.
At low levels you are worse off than a fighter-archer by quite a bit, at high levels having access to high level wizard spells makes you quite a bit better off as a well-rounded character.
Manly Dex with a 13 Int and some other points in Strength is really all you need. A 14 Int is a luxury that, if you can afford, it may be nice to grab.
Wow, I cannot figure out why two people think the Archer archetype is bad. You start with a fighter, who is hands down the best at dealing damage. Then the archetype trades away everything that a dedicated archer wasn't going to use anyways:
Bravery: Replaced with a bonus to range and perception checks (necessary for archer types). You're more susceptible to fear, but fear isn't an every-combat situation.
Armor Training: As an archer you're likely to avoid melee combat (at least for a while) and so a high armor class isn't totally necessary. This is particularly true when you consider your focus on Dexterity. Armor training is traded for the ability to perform combat maneuvers with your freakin' bow.
Weapon training: You keep weapon training with all bows, and trade the rest of them away for the following: no longer provoke AoOs with bows, increased AC vs. ranged attacks, and the ability to make a ranged whirlwind attack.
Armor Master: traded for DR vs ranged attacks, snatch arrow, and the ability to return fire as a swift action (at any target).
Who would genuinely recommend vanilla fighter over archer for a character pursing archery as a fighter?
Armor Training: As an archer you're likely to avoid melee combat (at least for a while) and so a high armor class isn't totally necessary. This is particularly true when you consider your focus on Dexterity. Armor training is traded for the ability to perform combat maneuvers with your freakin' bow.Your focus on dexterity is exactly why you cannot afford to give up armor training. Armor training increases the maximum dex bonus. That's +1 AC every 4 levels as long as you have enough dex that you can at least max out the dex limit on the heaviest armor you're willing to wear subject to movement restrictions, which are also decreasing.
But you're a ranged character. A standard fighter needs great AC to remain competitive because she needs to get into melee to do any damage. An archer just enters combat and starts firing arrows from wherever she's standing and only moves when she needs to get away from someone swinging at her or if she loses line of sight. You'll still have decent AC as a fighter, but it's no longer something you need to rely on.
Honestly, the idea of calling the archetype lame because you lose out on a few points of AC is laughable. AC even as a means of defense becomes less and less reliable as the levels push on.
If you're looking for raw damage numbers, and only numbers, then the archetype isn't for you.
However, it does give you some great options that a straight fighter doesn't. Namely, the Trick Shot ability. The ability to use combat maneuvers at range is a fantastic one. You can shoot the weapon out of an enemies hand from a safe distance, ready a shot to trip someone charging at you, sunder the straps of the BBEG's armor, any number of creative things.
I personally like combining it with Called Shots, giving you even more control options, to do things like shoot a fleeing enemy in the legs to slow him down.
But you're a ranged character.The first law of combat is Murphy's.
But your AC is still as good as a Paladin or Ranger archer and plenty of hitpoints to spare. Plus, you aren't provoking opportunity attacks, so you're better off!
thanks for the replies and ideas and i will try going as a archer still unsure on the arcane archer portion or not thanks all
reason i don't want to go zen archer is i like it but i tend not to play lawful (hence why i opted out of zen archer) and for arcane archer due to cool things they get + the buffing spells.
why do people ignore the zen archerZen archer is viable, but playing any kind of monk is an exercise and if the OP has trouble with consistently dying then it was my humble opinion that keeping things simpler would be desired.
Likewise it's my opinion that zen archer falls off the map in the later levels. So depending on the levels that the OP is looking to play its more or less desirable for him.
Absent of any more specifics, I'm still going with a non-archetype fighter as my recommendation.
-James
When I got my Pathfinder Core rules in the mail, that week I made ooodles of different characters. Mostly, it was just to learn the rules before I started running games.
I spent several weeks doing different archer builds because I really couldn't believe how easily powerful they could be. Arcane Archer was a fun build, and has lots of wiggle room for RP ideas. But, OMG, for pure archery power...human fighter. And the additional core books only make him tougher. Never thought I would be drooling over feat choices with a human fighter...but gosh, so many darn good paths!
Really, if you wanna kick arse and not have yer arse kicked as an archer, HUMAN FIGHTER is the path. If there are other specifics you require, than there may be a better choice.
Greg
+1 to zen archer x/wizard 1. Even at low level, they can put out amazing damage. I haven't seen the archer archetype in play so I don't know how it compares (certainly looks solid).
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Archers are best off as non-fighters... both the Ranger-archer and zen archer do that schtick better. I slightly prefer the Urban Ranger archer to Zen, for versatility (with Evil Outsiders, Undead, and Abberations as favored enemies... I know some like human and magical beast as well, but I aim for the higher level). The bottom line is those 2 get 6th-level access to Improved Precise, which is a massive to hit bonus in most settings. Rangers get some great support spells, more skills, and I like urban because favored terrain doesn't excite me and he removes the need for a trapfinding rogue.
Archers have also gotten better because their old nemesis for late game (DR) is conquers by cluster shot.
