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Here's something to try to wrap your head around:
Your PCs walk into a room that appears to be well-lit by a floating sphere. However, the sphere is actually the object of a Deeper Darkness spell and the "light" is actually a permanent Silent Image effect made to fool people into thinking the sphere is lighting the room.
Since the light is an illusion, what do the PCs see?
My guess is they see an otherwise empty room. The darkness is concealing the actual contents of the room but the illusion is causing the PCs to see light so their senses tell them they are in a lit room and nothing else. If they disbelieve the illusion, they see a dark room and might then be able to find the contents of the room with enough real light.
Kind of wondering how others of you would interpret this since this might happen in a game I'm running and I'm not entirely convinced I've got this right.
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I don't think you could create an illusion of "light" - illusions don't actually illuminate things. When you create the illusion, you decide what the room looks like, and then that's what it looks like. But it would be moot - because the room is under deeper darkness, and so unless you have darkvision you can't see anything. You can't counter deeper darkness just by casting silent image to "cover" the source of the darkness.
This interpretation also prevents extending the area of effect of an illusion by just saying "it's light" and it shines as far as a light source does.
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The illusion of light would not reflect off surfaces like actual light, and thus the illusion of light does not illuminate. However, the illusion of light can be used to make objects appear lit, whether they are or not.
Therefore, as a crafty dungeon designer, I could theoretically create a supernaturally dark room, cloak it under the illusion of a well-lit room, and proceed to hide all manner of stuff in that room. I would choose which items I would like to "appear," but ultimately, the room would be nothing like what it appears to be, and if you disbelieve the illusion, you're plunged into darkness. Not that the illusion actually accurately showed anything in the first place.
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I don't think you could create an illusion of "light" - illusions don't actually illuminate things.
I thought that too but Silent Images states it can create an illusion of a force. Since the Light and Darkness spells are evocation spells, I am led to believe Light and Darkness are forces (the crux of the evocation school.)
Creating an illusion of a lit and empty room makes sense to me as well, but I'm actually working with a pre-written adventure that states the illusion is light and not anything to do with the contents of the room.
@InVinoVeritas: I get what you're saying and I'm reading it as the illusion is making the room itself appear to be lit. The "light" isn't reflecting off of anything, but it is tricking the PCs into thinking it is. Basically, the PCs know what an empty lit room looks like so the spell is telling them that's what they see instead of seeing darkness.
Good stuff so far. Keep it coming. I've got plenty of time before I use this thing.
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Silent Image is a visual spell.
Description: This spell creates the visual illusion of an object, creature, or force, as visualized by you. The illusion does not create sound, smell, texture, or temperature. You can move the image within the limits of the size of the effect.
They would not be able to see a visual illusion of any type if there is no visibility in the darkness. The illusion spell requires on of the senses to be able to interact. This would have the same effect as having a silent image of an orc in front of a blind guy.
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The illusion of light would not reflect off surfaces like actual light, and thus the illusion of light does not illuminate. However, the illusion of light can be used to make objects appear lit, whether they are or not.
Therefore, as a crafty dungeon designer, I could theoretically create a supernaturally dark room, cloak it under the illusion of a well-lit room, and proceed to hide all manner of stuff in that room. I would choose which items I would like to "appear," but ultimately, the room would be nothing like what it appears to be, and if you disbelieve the illusion, you're plunged into darkness. Not that the illusion actually accurately showed anything in the first place.
Again, this would need some way to see it. What you speak of is more of beguilement and enchantment. Illusions need to be interacted with. The best way to put this is how would the above effect a blind person as opposed to a sighted person. That is more charming someone into thinking something that is not.
The closest anything comes to this is an area illusion spell called Mirage Arcana. It doesn't hide creatures, but creatures can hide in the illusionary structures just like real structures.
Mirage Arcana
School illusion (glamer); Level bard 5, sorcerer/wizard 5
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S
Area one 20-ft. cube/level (S)
Duration concentration +1 hour/ level (D)
This spell functions like hallucinatory terrain, except that it enables you to make any area appear to be something other than it is. The illusion includes audible, visual, tactile, and olfactory elements. Unlike hallucinatory terrain, the spell can alter the appearance of structures (or add them where none are present). Still, it can't disguise, conceal, or add creatures (though creatures within the area might hide themselves within the illusion just as they can hide themselves within a real location).
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Really good points, Shar Tahl. I'd overlooked that bit. After reading up on figments, however, I'm wondering if the PCs won't just see the light the same way they would see the darkness.
Because figments and glamers are unreal, they cannot produce real effects the way that other types of illusions can. Figments and glamers cannot cause damage to objects or creatures, support weight, provide nutrition, or provide protection from the elements. Consequently, these spells are useful for confounding foes, but useless for attacking them directly.
A figment's AC is equal to 10 + its size modifier.
I guess what I'm getting at is, does the darkness itself count as something that can be seen and, if so, might it actually be a suitable canvas for the illusion? Maybe I'm just getting too much into semantics.
I could just redesign the encounter with a higher level spell or something, but the idea intrigues me and I want to see if I can make it work with I've been presented.
Remember the basics of the Illusion school:
Figments create something that wasn't there before (though it is an illusion). It looks and functions (sort of) every bit as real as the real thing.
Glamers change the appearance of something that is already there.
Silent Image is a Figment. It will create an object(s).
I could create the illusion of a sword, and when I take that sword into bright sunlight it might reflect into my face and I would shield my eyes. I could take it into a dark room and I would struggle to see it.
On the other hand, I could create the figment of a fireplace. It is no longer moveable, but it does provide light (this bit might be contentious). When Deeper Darkness is also cast in the room with the fireplace, however, that light is cancelled.
Perhaps a Glamer could make a room 'appear' to be illuminated (maybe?), but a figment defintitely can not. (Unfortunately it seems that all our glamer spells are very specific in what they do, and none of them mention illuminating.)
I'd like to see a line of spell something like this:
School illusion (glamer); Level ?; Casting Time 1 standard action; Components V, S, F (a bit of make-up); Range ?; Effect visual glamer that cannot extend beyond four 10-ft. cubes + one 10-ft. cube/level (S); Duration ?; Saving Throw Will disbelief (if interacted with); Spell Resistance no.
DESCRIPTION: This spell creates a visual illusion upon an object, creature, or area, changing its appearance though not its basic form, as visualized by you. A sword will still appear as a relatively long, narrow, heavy object, though it may now look like an unfasioned metal rod, a heavy wooden club or a Small spear. A mouldy room may appear clean. A rickety carriage may appear brand new. Normal clothing may appear as field plate.
The illusion does not create sound, smell, texture, or temperature (at higher levels it does). The glamer moves with the object for the duration of the spell.
I hope someone tells me there is just that spell somewhere... UC perhaps.
Really good points, Shar Tahl. I'd overlooked that bit. After reading up on figments, however, I'm wondering if the PCs won't just see the light the same way they would see the darkness.
** spoiler omitted **
I guess what I'm getting at is, does the darkness itself count as something that can be seen and, if so, might it actually be a suitable canvas for the illusion? Maybe I'm just getting too much into semantics.
I could just redesign the encounter with a higher level spell or something, but the idea intrigues me and I want to see if I can make it work with I've been presented.
Perhaps a Silent Image of an empty room would be sufficient for your purposes. If it wasn't for Deeper Darkness, you could include a light source as part of your Silent Image.
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For the clarification of anyone interested in this dilemma, here's a basic desription of the room from the adventure I'm running:
(paraphrased from memory) Unlike many of the rooms in the dungeon, this room is brightly lit. The light emanates from several spheres that perpetually and silently bounce around the chamber at random. The light cast by the orbs cause shadows in the chamber to shift and dance as the moving lights change direction.
The text then informs the GM the orbs actually shed permanent deeper darkness but the darkness is concealed by a permanent silent image of light.
Naturally, I was little confused by how this works so I thought I'd share it with you all. Also, for your consideration, this adventure was written for 3.0, and I'm adapting it to Pathfinder so rules that worked back then may not work at all anymore.
Either way, I think it's an interesting topic since Illusion magic is usually the most difficult to adjudicate.
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Perhaps a Silent Image of an empty room would be sufficient for your purposes. If it wasn't for Deeper Darkness, you could include a light source as part of your Silent Image.Really good points, Shar Tahl. I'd overlooked that bit. After reading up on figments, however, I'm wondering if the PCs won't just see the light the same way they would see the darkness.
** spoiler omitted **
I guess what I'm getting at is, does the darkness itself count as something that can be seen and, if so, might it actually be a suitable canvas for the illusion? Maybe I'm just getting too much into semantics.
I could just redesign the encounter with a higher level spell or something, but the idea intrigues me and I want to see if I can make it work with I've been presented.
Silent Image makes objects,creatures or forces (like fire), not entire rooms.