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First of all, I really enjoyed reading this scenario and think it could be a lot of fun. I enjoyed the open-endedness of the roleplaying opportunities with the goblins and other NPCs, both contained in the scenario and created in my imagination.
Having said that, I think the quality of the scenario is highly dependent on the GM (and the GMs preparation). I think Frostfur is one of those scenarios that is similar to MotTMermaid, in that the quality of the scenario is based purely on the "fluff" that the GM provides. Hopefully I can do it justice.
Also, the faction missions are well done, didn't feel like they were added on at the last second, potentially have out-of-the-box solutions, and aren't hand fed to you.
Before talking about what fluff changes and roleplaying moments I've created with the gobbos, I'd like to go over problem areas (that I foresee).
1) Ferry: In Harvest's End, there was one solution that was missing, and to me it's the most obvious. At night, when everyone is sleeping, why couldn't the PCs hijack the ferry and get across the Rimeflow River? Sure, it would create "an incident", but it would be a much better solution compared to killing Rimetusk imo.
Is there any reason this wouldn't work? Isn't a medieval ferry just a large raft with a long pole to push them across? If not, what does it look like and what skills are needed to make it operate?
2) Goblin Package: What's stopping the PCs from knocking out the goblins (with nonlethal damage), tying them up and having the Fighter/Barbarian just carry them to Trollheim (besides being cruel)? Goblins only weigh 40 pounds each, so encumbrance is certainly not stopping them. They only really need to be able to strap the goblins onto a large porter's backpack.
I can't see any reason why this wouldn't work, however I think it would spoil a lot of the fun of the scenario.
3) Slow Travel: Are there any penalties for travelling extra slow in this scenario? For example, if the party is foraging, is heavily encumbered, etc? What would you suggest?
4) Faction Missions: Some reviewers mentioned that there were conflicts with the factions missions. Can anyone please describe them? The only conflict I can see is with the Grand Lodge and the rest of the group, but I think that's conflict in a good way.
Or is the reviewer talking about the potential conflict between Taldor and Cheliax, because one of the two doesn't understand the faction mission correctly?
All in all, I think this is going to be a great scenario. Any feedback from GMs who have run it would be welcome. I heard there was some negative feedback from Gen Con?
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I ran it a week ago I will address your concerns then I will tell you what happened in mine.
2)The Goblins if abused, or even have the appearance of being abused can cause a -5 diplomacy in harvest end. Goblins are considered citizens there. Carrying the goblins would slow the party down considerbly I would imagine. Maybe some 16+ strs that are not currently encumbered could do it, I would def be auditing sheets to determine this if they chose to do that. Also remeber that the scenario mentions the increased metabolism of the goblins, if they are knocked out, when they wake up they will be ravenous, and if not sated could starve to death.
3) Survival plays a big part in the first part of this scenario. If the party is too slow, they may not find shelter in time. I would increase the DCs by 5 to find shelter for the storm, and to hunt if they have too.
4)When I ran it Cheliax and Taldor almost came to blows over the eyes and stargem of the Guardian doll. The way the faction slips read for the players this can be a common misconception as to what part of the doll the Taldor need. The way Latern Lodge faction slip is written for the player is very vague, most characters will kill the blackraven traitors befor realizing they could have taken a captive, or if they do they will have a hard time convincing the rest of the party which also caused frustration. Scarzni will have a hard time if the party has been to aggressive with the goblins and or did not stop the smoke in time that is a -7 hit to diplomacy, and the party will likly want to just kill the troll(specially if they missed there knowledge checks, or did not ask questions of the VC they may just asume it is a monster and attack it with out even engaging in conversation. The Grand Lodge, well I would not like to be them for this scenario. The liklyhood that they will prevent any of these incidents from happening is slim to none.Though these missions can be difficult, if you remind them that they are only worth 1 PP and that they get 1 for the mission itself, that normaly eases thier minds a bit.
Hope that helps.
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I was thinking the storm wouldn't be any threat at all, for either subtier.
1) Everyone is going to bring cold weather outfits (the VC said PFS will "cover your travel expenses in full", I assume that means proper clothing/snow shoes/etc), so even at subtier 4-5, the PCs take damamge every hour only. Cold weather outfits also give +5 on all Fort saves for weather, so chances are everyone is going to make the few checks needed.
One of the things I don't like is that there's virtually no difference between the "intense" storm of subtier 4-5 and the subtier 1-2 storm, except for the DC of the Survival check. I'd agree that subtier 4-5 could be dangerous, if damage was taken every 10 minutes, but that shouldn't be the case if everyone brought Cold Weather Outfits.
2) Couldn't you just wand of CLW or Infernal Heal out of it? I can't see how it would be deadly at any subtier, but it might burn a lot of charges.
3) Making Survival checks isn't that hard. Survival can be attempted untrained and I'm going to assume that the main PC can be assisted by 2+ other PCs. I wouldn't be surprised if no one takes damage.
I still wouldn't put it past my PCs to trick him and steal it anyway. I re-read the section and it says you should reward creative solutions, so as long as they beat Rimetusk on some opposed skill check, it wouldn't be a bad solution.
Also, since the goblin's are citizens, I don't think it would go over well to have 4-6 beaten citizens, all unconscious, trying to get through a checkpoint. I'd think that maybe Rimetusk would want to hear from them first. I think in most cases, it would cause him to attack.
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RPG Superstar 2010 Top 16
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As a side note, I've found a nice way to role-play the goblins:
First off, at my table, the Goblin language is "English, with a bad French accent."
If a PC speaks Goblin, he hears: "'Allo. We ahre ze Frrrostfurrr clan, and we frrreely admi' zat we ha' been 'elping ze Shadow Lo'ge. Huh huh huh huh!!"
If not, he hears gibberish in a thick French accent.
As for their personalities, I've had enough experience teaching in the elementary schools to role-play really wicked 2nd-graders. I passed these to Thea, who put her own touches on them, and stole her ideas back.
Ankleknocker was one of the most ambitious goblins in the clan, until he attempted to drill holes in his own skull. He has five of them now, and each one hurts a little less than the last one. He's the slowest of the goblins, and he speaks in a conspiratorial whisper to the PCs. His goal is to drill holes in people's skulls, "because it feels zo good." He can be picked up like a bowling ball, and kind of likes that.
Bloodgash is the long-range planner in the group, but sometimes that means an hour out. Still, he is the only member of the clan suspicious of others. Including the PCs. "'Ow do we know zat you ahre 'oo you claim ahre? Ze Shadow Lo'ge is crrrafty, and ah jus' bet you arhre all Shadow Lo'ge members, prrrrepahring to slit our thrats as we sleep, non?" He's the goblin keenest to get his hands on a weapon, and quickest to warn the party of some danger up ahead. During any potential fight with Rimetusk, he is quick to offer the ice troll a hundred [metal] pieces, of whatever metal comes into his mind at the time.
Corpselicker believes that he can speak with dead by licking a resently-slain foe. "'Wai' wait. Quick! Let me lick you. It will give you good luck against ze troll!" Actually, he just likes to lick things. He also likes to clamp down and bite things, really hard, usually at the worst possible moment. It's a habit he's not proud of, but he's not ready to admit it's a problem, yet.
Dunghurler has a habit of sticking his hands in his pants when he's nervous. He will hurl dung at enemies, at nearby trees, or at some particularly valuable jewelry worn by a PC. He's the one who swallows the Alchemists' Fire.
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Well, imo, I think if the players didn't buy cold weather outfits, it would be more of a failing in my description of how cold it was, rather than a failure of my players. Take one step outside in Canada in the middle of winter and I think it becomes pretty obvious you need a winter jacket. I think it would be pretty obvious to the PCs in Trollheim too.
As for the (potential) conflict between Taldor and Cheliax, you could easily resolve it by saying the following two things to the players:
1) PFS never/rarely gives you conflicting faction missions
2) Cheliax is looking for a snow-colored (white) gem. I assume they meant snow shaped gem since the description says the gem is blue and shaped like a snowflake. I'm also assuming the eyes are not white or snow shaped. I can see where Taldor could get confused (because it's vague), but Cheliax should not.
As GM, should you clear the dispute up (beyond describing the gems) or leave it to the PCs once you've adequately described the situation? My initial reaction is to clear the dispute so there are no hard feelings at the table, but maybe I'm wrong.
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Ok I do have a minor gripe about the Scarzni Faction mission. I was a very good mission flavor wise, but my problem comes with its implementation. Success was (mostly) solely Dependant on the GM's die roll. Our GM ran the encounter well, but it still just felt like it boiled down to his die roll versus a DC that we could not influence. Not very interactive imho.
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Well, imo, I think if the players didn't buy cold weather outfits, it would be more of a failing in my description of how cold it was, rather than a failure of my players. Take one step outside in Canada in the middle of winter and I think it becomes pretty obvious you need a winter jacket. I think it would be pretty obvious to the PCs in Trollheim too.
It is not your description, it is the Venture Captain's. He has specific dialogue for this. This is to get players to ask questions and actually role play instead of just"Ok whens the next fight."
I did clear up the faction mess, I was giving you a heads up, wasnt that what you asked for?
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As for the (potential) conflict between Taldor and Cheliax, you could easily resolve it by saying the following two things to the players:
** spoiler omitted **As GM, should you clear the dispute up (beyond describing the gems) or leave it to the PCs once you've adequately described the situation? My initial reaction is to clear the dispute so there are no hard feelings at the table, but maybe I'm wrong.
When I ran thru this one our table would have indeed come to PvP had it not been the PFS invisible forcefield protecting the PCs from each other.
The Cheliax player insisted that his character believed the eyes were also part of what he required for his faction quest. I, the Taldor player, knew this was hogwash and appealed to the GM, who was running an adventure for the first time as a PFS member. Unfortunately he seemed unsure what to do. He pointedly told the Player that the eyes are not part of his Cheliax quest, but the player stuck to the position that his charater doesn't know, and he's gonna hang on to the Taldor quest item just to make sure he doesn't blow his own mission. And the GM let that stand.
Knowing the no-PvP rule meant I couldn't just organize the Taldor PCs into a posse and take it from his bloody, unconsious fingers.. or even do some shenanigans like stealing it from his stuff during watch at night, or anything else of the sort.. I gave roleplaying a fair attempt. I told the Cheliax player that if he did not hand over the eyes for my inspection/protection, I'd be forced to document them AND the snow gem in detail in my chronicle and ensure they all go to the Venture Captain.. implying the threat that if I don't get my faction mission, I'll blow yours up too.
Unfortunately our first-time PFS GM then jumped in and chose that time to throw the PvP penalty flag and said I'd do no such thing, and that the Cheliax player will have a chance to turn them over to his faction long before we report in to the VC.
I was outraged. I pointed out that he's the one who started PvP, by attacking my PP award as surely as beating his PC with my two-handed flail is attacking his HP total. I even pointed out that the only reason the party even had either item was that me and the other Taldor PC were the ones who realized we needed to get that doll down in the first place.
In the end the GM agreed that Taldor PCs were in an untenable situation now, and rather than forcing the Cheliax player to hand it over or allow us to PvP (or roleplay) it away from him, he decided to just give the whole situation a pass and agree to award us our PP and get the game back to a forward progression.
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It is not your description, it is the Venture Captain's. He has specific dialogue for this.
I guess, but as GM I usually describe the world, and where they are, beyond box text. So for me GMing, my point was I can never see the PCs not buying something to deal with the cold weather.
By not listening to the box text close enough, I think it's not so much roleplaying as "paying attention". Having said that, I don't believe anyone purchased any gear to handle cold weather when I played Shades of Ice 1-3 at Gen Con, which was probably unwise.
I did clear up the faction mess, I was giving you a heads up, wasnt that what you asked for?
Yup, thanks for the heads up, it allowed me to think about it (and see the mistake in the faction mission text) beforehand. I have 3 Cheliax players and 2 Taldor players, so this will come up.
I actually ended my previous statement with a question though. When there is faction mission friction, is GM intervention good or should you describe things and let the PCs hash it out?
What if one of the factions has something that the other faction needs (but they think they need the item)?
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Some of my thoughts on the scenario.
Chris: The goblins speak common, so you'd be making a change to the scenario if you had them speak goblin only.
I'm actually glad they speak common because it provides more roleplaying opportunities, they can communicate to everyone in Harvest's End, and certain faction missions aren't as difficult.
Joko PO: The way I see it, Intimidate is a short term solution, not a solution to build a business relationship. If you look at the Intimidate skill, it says "After the intimidate expires, the target treats you as unfriendly and may report you to local authorities." I don't think it would be a good thing if the white witches know about the Scarzni.
Dessio: Your GM made a lot of bad decisions but at least it ended somewhat ok. Yes, I thought your solution was clever too.
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Joko PO: The way I see it, Intimidate is a short term solution, not a solution to build a business relationship. If you look at the Intimidate skill, it says "After the intimidate expires, the target treats you as unfriendly and may report you to local authorities." I don't think it would be a good thing if the white witches know about the Scarzni.
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I guess Dessio is oblivious that I was his GM. I rewarded you for a creative solution(though in all honesty I could have just killed you when you decieded to ride off alone). I can not control other players actions, I gave as much away as possible. This is why we have no GMs in the springs, there are a lot of people that want to complain, but won't step to the plate themselves. I am done with society, I have 2 house games I will just stick to those.
Jason S. Good luck I am so sure you will be sooo much better then me.
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I guess Dessio is oblivious that I was his GM...
Heh. Hard to tell who's who on forums, especially if it's someone you only met once irl. Sorry if I came across as complaining about you personally. Indeed, you could have lowered the boom on me in any number of ways, heck I was one of the tards who didn't realize we'd need cold weather gear where we were going.
If anything, it was the Cheliax player that got me worked up, and I did one hell of an awful job articulating that in my post. When I was mentioning you, it was in the context of you and me both being new to this 'backed into a pvp corner' aspect of PFS play. Over in the OP's sister thread on this topic I was even admiring your idea of telling the player flatly, "No, you don't need that for your faction quest." We started off going different directions but in the end everyone got their own way, and that's no small thing.
So anyway, I do owe you an apology for the tone of my post. If we run into each other at Haven next week I'll offer to shake your hand in person ;)
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** spoiler omitted **Joko PO: The way I see it, Intimidate is a short term solution, not a solution to build a business relationship. If you look at the Intimidate skill, it says "After the intimidate expires, the target treats you as unfriendly and may report you to local authorities." I don't think it would be a good thing if the white witches know about the Scarzni.
The second way is, if you are intimidated, to make a bluff check to pretend to that were not really scared by the bellowing and that you were just giving him the respect he deserves. This is actually described at the end of the Sczarni faction handout.
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I just ran this for a group of six, four of whom were new to Pathfinder in general and PFS in specific. They played the fun new Ultimate Combat pregens and Merisiel. All four of them enjoyed the game immensely and immediately decided they'd come back next week, so the module was a success in every way. I especially liked the roleplaying, and everyone loved the goblins. I think there's a reason Pathfinder goblins have become iconic, and that's because they are just so wickedly fun and interesting.
On the subject of the Sczarni quest, here's how it went down for our group:
Our two players with the quest were beautiful. When everyone scattered to do their faction quests in Harvest's End the two Sczarni players asked Rimetusk for an audience and were exactly what two members of the Gypsy-Mafia of Golarion should be. They were suave and slick and oily, and they talked up their deal beautifully. The really fun part though was the intimidation.
Now, one of the things I love most about DMing is making an idiot of myself by acting out the NPCs. The entire conversation I was knuckling around the table, pounding my chest and talking in a gritty gravelly troll voice. It was more fun than should be allowed at a gaming table, really... And when I described to the players how Rimetusk ran his thumb along the blade of his axe, spread the blood across his cheeks, and then showed them the (now unwounded) digit, I leaned in real close and said in a low rumble "Puny humans are insolent for trying to deal with Rimetusk. Puny humans had better run or die."
The player's faces were priceless! They were actually scared of the troll! They were talking out of character along the lines of, "Do we run now or what?" The characters that weren't playing pregens were already berating them for causing trouble. "It's easy for you to say, you're not the one losing 3 levels when you die!"
So I added 2 to his intimidation roll to reflect the way the characters had been roleplayed. This is something I do often. When people roleplay really well in a certain situation or flub their lines completely and say something stupid, I love applying modifiers like that because I think it puts a little more control into the hands of the player. This is why after the gnome bard called Rimetusk stupid and ugly I gave everyone a -10 to their diplomacy checks to get Rimetusk to strangling the idiot. Fortunately, some shiny gold made their modifier go up a few points and they were able to keep the gnome from dying.
Anyways, buried in there is my solution to the problem of the intimidate check. Giving Rimetusk a penalty to his roll depending on how well the players do does three things:
1) When you tell the players about it, they see that they are rewarded for playing their character well.
2) The players are given more control over the situation.
3) This control is given in such a way that a character with no charisma or social skills cannot suddenly develop amazing powers of public speaking just because their player happens to be a bit of a diva and/or a spotlight hog.
PS: I'm surprised they were scared by my Rimetusk impression, really. I'm just a little guy and I must have looked utterly ridiculous. It really is too bad he rolled a three.
Anyways, a great module. It works best, of course, if the GM has a talent for atmosphere, so that the cold weather really bites and the goblins really rock.
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I just managed avoid faction conflict.
I used Chris Mortika's suggestions for the goblins, with a few tweaks (nothing worth mentioning really). The adventure suggests portraying the goblins as wholly evil monsters, but I decided to make them somewhat likeable anyways. I was concerned that my players would be frustrated about running an escort mission for half-suicidal goblins, and at first they were, but by the end they actually appreciated them.
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This is a five star scenario imo, mostly because of the roleplay sandbox it creates (see my review).
The following are the essentials only of what happenned in my sessions.
This sessions wasn't bad, but it was too short at only 3.5 hours. We skipped the optional and last encounter. They played up to subtier 4-5 with 7 PCs, mostly 2nd level and one 3rd.
We were playing up, I gave the enemies modified tactics, and every combat challenges was still too easy.
Act 1: I started the PCs at the suggested location but made the terrain difficult, which was bad. Live and learn. No goblins died, but it was close. Two goblins climbed the ladder and were attacked with a sleep spell at 45' . They were already damage and plummeted but were saved by the cleric's mid air readied channel energy. Saved the mission. Other PCs blocked arrows for the goblins, healed the goblins, intimidated / talked / coerced / tricked the goblins in staying out of the fight. Well done.
This was a great encounter because it forces the PCs to do "non-combat" things. If they fail to do non-combat things (ie. protect the goblins), they die. So you may win the combat, but you fail the mission.
Act 2: One of the goblins was given an alchemy fire, ate it, and was unlucky enough to explode. Oops. 6 goblins is still good right? No one left the tents so the snowbloom was undiscovered and lost.
Act 3: Skipped.
Act 4: In general this group treated the goblins very nicely. +2 bonus. They successfully tricked Rimetusk into thinking they were merchants (they had a cleric of Abadar) and avoided any incidents.
Act 5: The doll was compelled into our waiting swarm of melee PCs and swiftly destroyed.
Act 6: Skipped because of time.
Final: Full PA but limited gold. I just wish we had more time.
This session was great (because of the roleplaying), but a lot of the fun ended when the goblins died early. 5.5 hour home session, played up for subtier 4-5 with six level 2 PCs.
Like the previous session, the combats were too easy (with level 2s), even with modified tactics.
Act 1: I started them at 40', with difficult terrain, from the towers. This worked out perfectly. Unfortunately, no one protected the goblins and the oracle was crippled, so he was too slow to keep up with them. Three goblins died, one goblin from falling 45' (no one caught him since another PC was caught just before him). The other two died from a lucky Burning Hands and failed saves.
Act 2: Lots of failed Survival checks, but there was no danger involved, just a bunch of charges burned from our wands. Time was lost though (5 hours). No incidents in the night (except Bigmouth eating lots of food). This group also did not find the snowblosom and I gave them a Knowledge (Geo and Nature) DC 18 check to know about the flower, but no one had the skills.
Act 3: There is NO WAY a goblin will ever be able to ride a wolf to escape. First of all, it's a remote chance they'll made the skill checks, but most importantly they'll go down from the AoO attack. One goblin went down, but none were killed or escaped.
Act 4: Things started to get rough and one of the goblins was beaten unconscious by our ninja. A financial agreement was made with Rimetusk, but it took (scenario) gold to do it. That price increased after the beating.
Act 5: The doll encounter was much better than the previous session, much more thematic. Melee did suffer, but it was fun watching everyone throw alcemy fire's at the doll and watching it burn.
Act 6: The goblins were all hurt from the doll and instead of healing the goblins, we carried them unconscious and barely alive to the Blackravens. They made their Sense Motive checks but chose to ignore them. The players also misunderstood and thought the mission was complete (the only stupid question is the question you don't ask. We weren't in Trollheim). We all know what happens then and since they were already 90% dead (and coupe de grace bait), it was too late for us to save them. GOBLIN TPK!
Final: 1 PA, limited gold, but it was a good time, a good story. Too bad about the ending but it shows you can't be 100% successful all the time.
No facton conflicts and no one even *asked* about the ferry, how it operates, is it guarded, whatever. Surprising!
I'll post my fluff modifications later. I think everyone had a good time and I definitely had a good time GMing it.
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I loved this mod. I ran it at OGC in Nashua, NH (our local August con).
The goblins MAKE the mod.
I had a great time getting them into tons of mischief. The players decided to each watch one goblin. They had to change this to 1 or 2 PCs watching the goblins during the combats. After the first battle there were extra weapons and armor. Some PCs let their goblin carry a sword or shield or both. some PCs didn't let their goblin have anything. I used this to have the goblins squabble. Some now felt better than the other goblins and began to boss them around. Those goblins also got cocky with the PCs. The other goblins were jealous and caused problems for the PCs that way.
Before and during the last battle I really enjoyed seeing how long I could keep the PC's thinking the warriors with them were on their side, if just a bit arrogant. I think it was at some point in round 2 or 3 when the party realized ALL the warriors were trying to kill the goblins. I was impressed that the party only lost one goblin in that battle. I thought for sure I was going to kill 2 other goblins, but they survived.
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** spoiler omitted **
He'd start out pushing them around and flaunting his strength. When one of them tries standing up to him he'd challenge them. It's too awesome of an option to pass up!
Fortunately, when I ran it the paladin made the DC 25 check.
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I got to play though this @ tier 4-5, being the only 5th level character, the rest where 2-4, we had 6 players, putting us @ tier 3, they wanted to play up.
All the skills checks with the troll failed, I tried to bribe him 50g, but he was too pissed off for it. our Cleric said screw it, and cast charm person.... He resisted, got even more pissed and we rolled int. the 2nd level barbarian charged, and took an AOO, then the troll hit, with his axe adn claw, dropping the barb to -12. Luckly I went next, used the dieing barb to my advantage, and played up the trolls strengh saying we had made a terrible mistake, and he was mighty indeed, and i would pay a tribute to him of 250g to let our puny selves live, and rolled a 19 on my diplo. the GM said the troll accepted, and combat was over. the Scarzni players (a fighter and barbarian) did not get their PP(this did not bother my Chelixian Wizard, who is very much a snob), but no one died and we went on.
As for the goblins, My wizard made his KN check to learn that gobs are scared of Horses, Having quick study, I normally leave 1 of my slots open at each level incase i need a specific spell. SO i prepared Ghost sound, and tricked the Goblins into believeing there was a killer horse in the area named black mane, who liked the taste of goblin flesh! and only We (the party) could protect them! it worked like a charm and they listened to us the whole mod, if they started to get unruly, i was ghost sound again
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I am getting ready to run this tomorrow. Nobody has mentioned the wolves. The mod talks about the goblins trying to ride away on the wolf. It takes two checks, DC 20 Ride followed by a DC20 Handle Animal. Problem is that the goblins don't have Handle animal and it is a 'trained only' skill. How exactly could one of the goblins get away on a wolf?
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I am getting ready to run this tomorrow. Nobody has mentioned the wolves. The mod talks about the goblins trying to ride away on the wolf. It takes two checks, DC 20 Ride followed by a DC20 Handle Animal. Problem is that the goblins don't have Handle animal and it is a 'trained only' skill. How exactly could one of the goblins get away on a wolf?
Hi Todd, one of the people I actually miss from PFS.
The fight with the wolves went realitivly fast for my group because they retreated back to the towers and used those to sleep in for shelter, this created a bottle neck and the goblins where on the other side of the PCs. Also the PCs had been nice to the goblins, we had a half-orc that sympathized with them. I had noticed that too, how I planed on handling it since it is not addressed, is to allow the goblins a check untrained because there is a paragraph in the scenario that mentions that the wolfs and goblins have an afinity for eachother.
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I am getting ready to run this tomorrow. Nobody has mentioned the wolves. The mod talks about the goblins trying to ride away on the wolf. It takes two checks, DC 20 Ride followed by a DC20 Handle Animal. Problem is that the goblins don't have Handle animal and it is a 'trained only' skill. How exactly could one of the goblins get away on a wolf?
Well, at subtier 1-2 they can't (technically) escape, although I would have allowed it (instead of adolescent wolves I would have said starving). At subtier 4-5, the goblin Ride skill is good, so I gave them a racial bonus to Handle Animal which meant they needed a 16 or higher on a D20 to succeed. I did this because I wanted a *slim* chance of it happenning, I think it would have been funny.
It doesn't matter though, the goblins won't escape because of AoO from the wolves, and the wolves damage is high enough that they'll go unconscious on one hit. That's what happenned in my 2nd game (to two goblins). Which was fine, it was a short encounter anyway and the PCs were surprised they tried to escape. It did what it was intended to do and it was fun describing the goblins trying to (briefly) ride the wolves.
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This has been one of the funnest Role Playing Scenarios myself and my fellow GMs have played:
One mod that I ran the goblins in anquish about the cute wolves attaching them and the party, swarmed the dire wolf, and naturally rolled a 20 to grapple and then another natural 20 to pin. They then took the rest of the scenario gradually befriending their new 'pet'. Kept them out of trouble the remainder of the scenario. It actually aided the goblins when they were attacked by the enraged humans who wanted to kill the little 'monsters', keeping enough goblins alive to mean a success for the party's mission (GT 50% alive).
Another GM of mine, had the find a wolf pup, after being attacked by the wolves. The goblins captured it as a pet, and it followed along with them the remainder of the adventure. In the end as they cross the border after being ambushed at the lodge, a wolf pack is seen behind them on the hill. A howl is heard, and the party pauses with the puppy. The goblins and a party member encourage the puppy to return to the pack. The puppy runs toward the pack, but not before stopping half way and looking longingly back at the party, and rejoining its pack.
I talked over the ending with the GM and next time he ran it he modified it, when the next party did the same thing. The party is horrified when the puppy rejoins the pack, but since its not his, they tear the puppy apart and then flee the scene.
The worst of the role play gms, actually allowed the brute of a barbarian to bring along a sled. They packed the captive goblins into barrels, after tieing them up. Less than 1/2 of the goblins survived this rough treatment of being rolled around in the barrels, and having daily rations thrown into the barrels (with no heal checks to see if they were even alive or hurt). I talked to this gm about the lost opportunities for role playing the goblins.
Some parties arm the goblins, some use intimidate and diplomacy to herd them. Those groups that treated the goblins as allies rather than slaves, actually armed them. The number of tents during the snowstorm came into play. In one game the Barbarian became the goblin drill instructor and slept with the goblins in one tent (dog pile, or is that goblin pile, style) while the remainder slept in the other, able to breath without goblin stinch. In another game that had only one tent, the goblins snuggled with each of the PCs. Its funny when PC forget to buy tents.
I always love to role play the goblins love of fire. One game, when the party forced the goblins to hide from the watch towers, and stay out of the fight, bored, they started a campfire behind the rock they were 'hiding', which blew the wonderful stealth rolls of the PCs sneaking toward the towers. They redeemed themselves, when as they (the pcs) attacked one tower, the whole group of goblins ran forward with torches and burnt their way into and burnt down the second tower. "Oh were we suppose to stop the warning fires? Sorry chief".
My GMs have loved this scenarios so much after I prepped them that it has spread like wild fire through the area, and has been the scenario with the most feedback and stories by players after running through it.
I have even had players replay it, without receiving credit, just to help their friends fill a table and the joy of the scenario.
Robyn
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These are some thoughts on playing Frostfur Captives.
Frostfur plays better when you have more time. 4 hours is ok, but the GM will have to be very prepared and it will be rushed. Besides the optional encounter (wolves), if I had to cut time again, I’d handwave the doll encounter (it’s not that interesting or deadly).
Frostfur Captives is not like other scenarios, the encounters are not about killing the PCs, the encounters are about killing the goblins (and the PCs trying to protect them). The encounters in Frostfur will NOT challenge the PCs, even when playing up (2nd level PCs against subtier 4-5). The opponents are too weak, non-optimized and use poor tactics. However, the mission itself should be very difficult because Frostfur is an escort mission. There should be the chance, if it isn’t played right, to lose a goblin in every act.
The best part of the scenario is the goblins themselves. To emphasize that the goblins aren’t just nameless prisoners, she tells us their names and a little about each goblin. In each Act, have the goblins do three “goblin antics”.
For example, when the goblins are on the road to Act 1, the following antics showcase the goblins. Bigmouth wants food (and tries to sunder a bag of food if displeased). Bloodgash asks where they are going, if they did something wrong, and talks about “racial equality” and “fighting the man”. Maggobo (and the other goblins) break into the Goblin Song (see Rise of the Runelords AP #1).
I didn’t want to make the Goblins as monstrous as the scenario intended. They were cute, with a nasty streak. A little like children, a little like the gremlins in the movie “Gremlins”. Children who bite people when they don’t get what they want and start fire to things. :)
I chose the following Goblins:
1) Bloodgash: The smartest of the goblins, their “leader”, he speaks with an outrageous French accent. Thanks for the idea Chris!
2) Maggobo: The only female goblin. Is social, benevolent, and constantly singing (mostly 80s songs).
3) Bigmouth: Bigmouth… is always hungry. Bigmouth hungry!
4/5) Ozzfozz / Fozzozz: These twins are crazy and have a frightening love of fire and bombs.
6) Giog: Giog is almost always exhausted (he has the condition) and sleeps whenever he can.
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I played this with three other new first lvl characters. The combats were overly lethal.
The goblins stared on top of the towers and got a surprise rouund of archery, hurting everyone. They won initiative and gave us a second pelting. At this point we were all below half. The Druid cast obscuring mist and hid inside, holding on to the goblin rope. Our DM made the paladin fall coming back down the ladder fast (dc10?) but hand waved the death away. I went up the other tower with the shaman, I was hit wih alch fire out side and burning hands on the ladder. I got to top and was immediately staggered. Luckily our gunslinger had a musket and was killing everything every other round by spending grit to shoot touch ac out side of his range increment. I think the gm made a pot of cure light wounds to allow us to walk away.
Wolves were the only easy fight
The doll used inflict X for 14 damage which would have killed our gunslinger, but he passed his save...assume it was a divine spell... Other wise he should be dead.
The pathfinder and friends cooked us dinner and we heard walking on the roof so we ran to the goblins. The bad guys pretended to help us, so we did not attack them first. I dropped again in this fight and so did the Druid. It would have taken days before she could regain consciousness to heal people. Not sure why they didn't wait until we left to kill the gobs...
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In addition to Mountain Pass (flip), Campsites (map pack), and Forest (flip), I found the following items useful.
Village: For the village I used the 'Village Square flip map' and it worked out nicely. If you have the room, you can also use a few tiles from the 'Slums map pack' (it's a fishing village).
Lodge: I had a map of the horse stalls and I didn't find it was useful to create. Not only will most PCs not go into the horse stalls, but you can run it abstractly if they do. Also, the lodge map already consumes the entire table, the stalls just won't fit.
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I didn't read through every post here to see if someone else happened to mention it, but here was the tactic our table ended up using for the goblins when we played it at Brewfest, which we all found hilarious and quite useful:
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I had a lot of fun running this at arcanacon, two things worth mentioning would have been the first combat and Rimetusk
I tried to give my players many chances to RP, it was lots of fun despite the death. Funniest interaction between goblin and PC was probably the "Gnomish Friendship String" (some string tethering the gnome and goblin together) which was later upgraded to "Gnomish Friendship Rope" because stronger bonds mean stronger friendship
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Oh, man. I though I had done a good job running this, but now I'm not so sure. :(
I must have done okay, though, because as soon as they were out of Irisen the party was so fed up that they sacked the remaining goblins "for their own safety." I really tried to play up that they were 'citizens' by having Rimetusk ask them why they were traveling with a pack of mangy humans. The party was so nervous the goblins were going to spill the beans. I had a blast, and plan to run it again.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4
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Oh, man. I though I had done a good job running this, but now I'm not so sure. :(
Classic GM doubt, pay it no mind. If the players laughed and smiled, and seemed to have a good time- then you did it right.
When I GM there's never I time when I don't think I suck. After my players yelled at me about low self-esteem enough, I started to ignore that doubting voice.
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A lovely scenario. I've run this once face-to-face, and am now doing a forum game on our Finnish forum. Great fun!
There's just one thing that, to me, is off. It's the chronology. What, exactly, has happened here? Did the other team capture the goblins and message Ambrus Valsin (with magic, hopefully) to send a team from faraway Absalom all the way to Irrisen? The trip should take <i>months</i>. For comparison, a trip from Magnimar to Eleder is 104 days long (according to the <i>Serpent's Skull Player's Guide</i> - by my estimate, the Magnimar-Corentyn leg, which these sea journeys share, should be around a month), and would likely not be too much longer than sailing from Absalom to Kalsgard.
I think the distances and times involved strain credibility, and it would've been much more elegant to, say, have the briefing occur at the Kalsgard Lodge, where all the characters just happened to be at the same time.
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I agree there is a lot of opportunity for some great fun with this one. I had a less-than-stellar experience with it. It was still fun, and I'm not faulting our GM...just pointing out a few potential pitfalls that might detract from the experience.
2. At the border, the gobs were agitated as we approached the hut, but quieted down before we got close. From the scenario test - "The Frostfur goblins become terrified at the sight of the porcelain doll. Cowering, they plead for the PCs to protect them from the wrath of the Witch Queen, who they believe (correctly) can see though the doll’s eyes." We tried to stealth past the hut and when we got to a point where the gobs could see the doll, not a peep out of them. With no movement from the doll and nothing from the gobs, I'm thinking stealth worked, the doll can't see us, and on we went. Seems to me an opportunity was missed here to "encourage" a battle with the doll, since several of the faction quests depend on it happening.
3. At the Blackraven Waycamp, Enrik was portrayed as a goblin hater...all-but openly hostile. He also did not indicate there was a locked storage room they could be secured in, but rather simply refused to allow them into the waystation living areas. We opted to keep them in a stall in the stable and I stayed with the gobs while the other party members went in to eat. This made fulfilling the mission far easier than it might have been, because I was able to put down the two guards being sent to kill the gobs while the rest of the party dealt with Enrik.
Again, I'm not faulting our GM, who was clearly very experienced and capable. But I wanted to highlight a few places where careful handling of the situation can enhance the challenge and enjoyment factor.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2010 Top 4
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A lovely scenario. I've run this once face-to-face, and am now doing a forum game on our Finnish forum. Great fun!
There's just one thing that, to me, is off. It's the chronology. What, exactly, has happened here? Did the other team capture the goblins and message Ambrus Valsin (with magic, hopefully) to send a team from faraway Absalom all the way to Irrisen? The trip should take <i>months</i>. For comparison, a trip from Magnimar to Eleder is 104 days long (according to the <i>Serpent's Skull Player's Guide</i> - by my estimate, the Magnimar-Corentyn leg, which these sea journeys share, should be around a month), and would likely not be too much longer than sailing from Absalom to Kalsgard.
I think the distances and times involved strain credibility, and it would've been much more elegant to, say, have the briefing occur at the Kalsgard Lodge, where all the characters just happened to be at the same time.
You make a great point NiTessine. Here's a little walk through my internal logic, though I think you nailed a continuity glitch without a good answer.
And of course, that's why you see Grandmaster Torch pushing back in his faction mission, because to him- it doesn't make sense. Or rather, it's a misuse of the PCs as investigators, which is one of the issues that the new Shadow Lodge is concerned about. And since this is the first scenario in Season Three, I wanted to advance his role and agenda from Day One.
So (my interpretation), the capture team has been deemed as 'deep under cover'. The leadership does not want their placement in Irrisen to become compromised for whatever reason. They're to stay in the field, necessitating that someone else retrieve the goblins. Irrisen is really enemy territory, and the winter witches and other forces have access to weird magic and even wildlife could be working for 'them'. So logically, if the mission goes badly for the PC group, they can just evacuate out of the country as quickly as possible without any need to concern themselves with going back in any time soon.
That leaves me to explain why the extraction team just doesn't retrieve the goblins themselves. By my way of thinking, the goblins might be transported magically, or at least under great secrecy. Remember, this is fresh on the heels of the Reconciliation. The Ten are still concerned about double agents. With powerful magic or secrecy being paramount, I deemed that the extraction team doesn't come under the radar of Whitethrone (if not magically, then just receiving reports that powerful adventurers are prowling the countryside, which could precipitate an organized response). Who knows what means the witches have to police the countryside, or if renegade Pathfinders are using that as a new base instead of Kaer Maga? The PCs are a low level group, who by their very nature, draw much less attention.
And I always assumed (and tried to imply) that magical communication was taking place.
As for why I didn't start them in Kalsgard: simple inexperience as an author. It was my first scenario and I wanted to make a good impression and I was afraid of deviating from the formula too much. So to me it seemed that every scenario started in Absalom and I followed suit. If I had a time machine I think your solution is far superior. :D It something I'm definitely going to bear in mind in future projects (the Developers willing of course).
I hope that's helpful, if not enlightening! I'm glad you enjoyed it otherwise!