Animal Companion and Eidolon Hit Points

[Deluge]

Hi all

I have no idea what might have been said in the past on this topic.

In PFS, why don't Animal Companions and Eidolons use the same formula as characters for hit points? I have just been reading the FAQ on this issue.

Average hit points is ok, but involves a half point every second level. Obviously this sort of thing has been avoided for characters' hit points to make things simple.

To be clear, I am not suggesting that these creatures should have max hit points at first level, but that the hit points be calculated without the 0.5 so that it is the same amount to be added each level. Table 2-2 in the Guide to Organised Play shows the way of course.

To my thinking, in an organised play campaign, simplicity is the best way to avoid confusion. If it is simplified for characters, why not simplify in the same way for companions.

[Scribbling Rambler]

To be clear, they do not have a half hit point.

The FAQ says to multiply their HD by 4.5 and round down.
So essentially 1 HD give 4 hp, 2 gives 9, 3 gives 13, 4 gives 18...

[Auke Teeninga]

K Neil Shackleton wrote:

To be clear, they do not have a half hit point.

The FAQ says to multiply their HD by 4.5 and round down.
So essentially 1 HD give 4 hp, 2 gives 9, 3 gives 13, 4 gives 18...

Which is the same as is used for monsters and NPCs. It's just player characters that get special treatment. And the game is about the PCs, not about their companions.

[Deluge]

Ok for me to be clear, I wrote this after reading the PFS FAQ, so I do see that there are not actual 1/2 hit points. The problem remains that these rounding issues are something that PC characters don't have to deal with, excepting if they have an Eidolon or Companion.

I appreciate too that monsters and NPCs don't get the PFS Table 2-2 progression. I am just expressing my thought that in general PCs don't have to deal with rounding half hit points, but when they have an Eidolon or Companion they do.

The game is about the PCs, and their companions are a class feature and a part of who they are. I'm not a great fan of classes with companions, but since they exist, I think that the simple rules for PCs should apply. But I'm just stating a view, not saying right or wrong. Things work well when kept simple for players.

[Scribbling Rambler]

Would it be simpler to state that they get 4 hit points at odd levels, and 5 at even? Same result, different wording?

[Deluge]

Hi Neil, I appreciate that you have responded to this thread.

It is not a sexy thread, but a basic one. I have numerous times checked the hit points of animal companions and eidolons when (as GM) I have ben suspicious and I have found them calculated using many formulae - too often incorrect. What seems simple still causes some confusion.

If we used the PC Table 2-2 formula for companion hit points, the difference at 12th level would be 6 hit points, which if fairly insignificant, but I think then most players would get it right. Naming the numbers 4 and 5 is not as simple as a fixed number per level. What works for players would most likely work for their companions.

[Scribbling Rambler]

Fair enough. Let's see if someone picks up on the idea.

I strongly suspect (as Auke said) that the reasoning behind the current method is that it matches the standard for monsters in the bestiaries and NPCs. So it is consistent with other PFRPG standards.

Not a criticism of your request, just a comment on the current rule.

[Alizor]

In all fairness, I've seen PCs HP calculated using odd formulas as well, so I'm not sure simplifying it to be the same as PCs would change much. Also I think the "always round up" rule for PC HP is a fairly significant buff. Mechanically it's equal to half the Toughness feat!

[Deluge]

Yeah I've seen players have problems with the hit point calculation too.

And I guess that makes the point. If players get their character hit points wrong with a fixed number per level, then it seems sensible to have a fixed number for companion hit points too.

[james maissen]

Deluge wrote:

Yeah I've seen players have problems with the hit point calculation too.

And I guess that makes the point. If players get their character hit points wrong with a fixed number per level, then it seems sensible to have a fixed number for companion hit points too.

People getting core rules wrong is not really a good reason to make house rules. Instead of alleviating confusion it tends to add to it. Rather I would suggest that we educate everyone in the basic core rules. That way you'll have one set of rules for people to follow, likely located nicely in one place.

Otherwise you'll have multiple camps of players in the campaign:

1. People who get it wrong regardless of the rule.
2. People who can get it right with a house rule, but wrong with the core rules.
3. People who would have gotten it right with core rules, but get it wrong because of the house rule.
4. People who will just get it right regardless.

The way I see it, it's not going to cause less variation but likely it will cause more. Partially this will be because there would be one place that says 'take 4.5 (or 5.5) xHD and round down' and another place that says 'take 5 (or 6) xHD'.

Its easier in the long run just to try to get everyone to know the core rules. If the core rules are an issue, then fortunately the makers of those core rules are in close contact with those that run this campaign and the feedback can get to them.

-James

[Thorkull]

Alizor wrote:

In all fairness, I've seen PCs HP calculated using odd formulas as well, so I'm not sure simplifying it to be the same as PCs would change much. Also I think the "always round up" rule for PC HP is a fairly significant buff. Mechanically it's equal to half the Toughness feat!

Mechanically speaking, extra hit points help the PCs less than missing hit points hurt them. Therefore, adding a few extra hit points (6 by 12 level? That's as likely to get you killed as save your life) doesn't really up the power level or survivability of the PCs.