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I searched for this topic but no luck.
We have a group member that insists bless weapon allows one to ignore incorporeal. We don’t allow this but I do agree with him that the spell description is a little misleading in this regard. My group is not active on these boards, but does accept the feed back from the community. Can someone give a definitive answer so that I can quell this discussion? Thanks
This transmutation makes a weapon strike true against evil foes. The weapon is treated as having a +1 enhancement bonus for the purpose of bypassing the DR of evil creatures or striking evil incorporeal creatures (though the spell doesn't grant an actual enhancement bonus). The weapon also becomes good-aligned, which means it can bypass the DR of certain creatures. (This effect overrides and suppresses any other alignment the weapon might have.) Individual arrows or bolts can be transmuted, but affected projectile weapons (such as bows) don't confer the benefit to the projectiles they shoot.
In addition, all critical hit rolls against evil foes are automatically successful, so every threat is a critical hit. This last effect does not apply to any weapon that already has a magical effect related to critical hits, such as a keen weapon or a vorpal sword.
Not sure what is ambiguous. If the incorporeal creature is evil, then bless weapon is just like having a +1 magic weapon.
Actually, against an evil incorporeal creature, it acts as a ghost touch weapon, as the spell does not grant any actual enhancement bonus.
Actually, against an evil incorporeal creature, it acts as a ghost touch weapon, as the spell does not grant any actual enhancement bonus.
No, as stated above, it is "treated as having a +1 enhancement bonus for the purpose of" ... "striking evil incorporeal creatures". Ghost touch is not mentioned, +1 enhancement bonus is.
In the spoiler above, it says though the spell doesn't grant an actual enhancement bonus which means that the weapon will strike, but get no bonuses to hit or damage.
My previous post was incorrect in that it does not allow the weapon to do full damage. Bless would allow a normal, non-magical weapon to strike the evil incorporeal creature and deal half-damage, just like a magical weapon would. For non-evil incorporeal creatures, it would act like a normal weapon, and would do no damage at all to the creature.
we get all that. the disagreement is that this player thinks bless weapon gets around the half damage to incorporeal. The ambiguous part is that incorporeal is mentioned at all. all it needs to say in my interpretation is that it acts like a magical weapon.
Ok, that was not clear in your original post.
It acts just like a +1 weapon. A +1 weapon does half damage against incoporeal creatures. It is still not ambiguous. If it said it acts like a ghost touch weapon, then your player would be correct, but it does not.
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Charender wrote
"Ok, that was not clear in your original post.It acts just like a +1 weapon. A +1 weapon does half damage against incoporeal creatures. It is still not ambiguous. If it said it acts like a ghost touch weapon, then your player would be correct, but it does not."
right. it acts as a +1 weapon. that is all bless weapon needs to state. the description of how incorporeal works is covered in the incorporeal rule description. The fact that the word incorporeal is mentioned in the description of bless weapon is redundant,unnecessary,and misleading.
The fact that the word incorporeal is mentioned in the description of bless weapon is redundant,unnecessary,and misleading.
I'm not sure about that. Most likely we would have a very similar topic called "Incorporeal and Bless Weapon" which asked if a weapon affected by Bless Weapon can damage evil incorporeal creatures. It's very difficult to find the perfect common ground between too much explanation and too little.
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The fact that the word incorporeal is mentioned in the description of bless weapon is redundant,unnecessary,and misleading.I'm not sure about that. Most likely we would have a very similar topic called "Incorporeal and Bless Weapon" which asked if a weapon affected by Bless Weapon can damage evil incorporeal creatures. It's very difficult to find the perfect common ground between too much explanation and too little.
indeed. thanks for the feed back people!
My previous post was incorrect in that it does not allow the weapon to do full damage. Bless would allow a normal, non-magical weapon to strike the evil incorporeal creature and deal half-damage, just like a magical weapon would. For non-evil incorporeal creatures, it would act like a normal weapon, and would do no damage at all to the creature.
Wait, what!? Another one!?!?
/me adds that to his ever-lengthening list of seemingly random Pathfinder changes.
Another in the long list of "simpler, but not really" changes.
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For a lot of people, simply saying "Makes a mundane weapon count as magical vs evil creatures" would have been too vague, and from reading the spell decriptor they wouldn't likely have seen the value of the spell. "Okay, it's magic, but I get no actual bonuses. What good is that?" Including the DR and Insubstantial means just by reading the spell, they can appreciate the full value of the spell. "Oh, so if we face a ghost, the cleric can cast bless and now I can hurt it. Nice". See what I mean? Not everyone is as intelligent and rational as you, and sometimes things need to be spelled out, though it creates some redundency for those who are actually familiar with many of the nuances of the system.
wow, nat 20 on diplomacy!!!!