Need Help with a 2 man team


Advice


So I am about to start a new game where there will be only 2 players + the DM. What I know so far is that we're going to start at around level 5, maybe 6. My friend is going to play an Arcane Caster, he wants to do an elementalist of some sort, that can also craft items. And I somehow need to cover everything else.....yay. We are allowed every pathfinder "core" books (Core, APG, UM, UC)

I have a few ideas so far, but i need some help to figure out how to best optimize this party with my character.

I was thinking about playing a Ranger, probably a switch hitter, so we can both shoot at enemies from a distance until they close up and I go into melee with my animal companion. It will also allow me to use wands of cure light wounds and the sorts.

The other Ranger option is to go complete archery, with the new feats from UC that prevent AoO when shooting arrows while threatened, it becomes a viable option, but I can't tell if its actually a better idea.

Other option is a Trip Fighter I think, I haven't looked into it too much but it seems it could work, but I think I'm giving up alot of flexibility from the Ranger for a one trick pony.

I'm open to other suggestions, only thing is I'm already playing a Magus and a Summoner in other games so those are out. And I don't want to play a cleric or pally( I just hate lawful good requirements for pallys )


Eriyoth wrote:

So I am about to start a new game where there will be only 2 players + the DM. What I know so far is that we're going to start at around level 5, maybe 6. My friend is going to play an Arcane Caster, he wants to do an elementalist of some sort, that can also craft items. And I somehow need to cover everything else.....yay. We are allowed every pathfinder "core" books (Core, APG, UM, UC)

I have a few ideas so far, but i need some help to figure out how to best optimize this party with my character.

I was thinking about playing a Ranger, probably a switch hitter, so we can both shoot at enemies from a distance until they close up and I go into melee with my animal companion. It will also allow me to use wands of cure light wounds and the sorts.

The other Ranger option is to go complete archery, with the new feats from UC that prevent AoO when shooting arrows while threatened, it becomes a viable option, but I can't tell if its actually a better idea.

Other option is a Trip Fighter I think, I haven't looked into it too much but it seems it could work, but I think I'm giving up alot of flexibility from the Ranger for a one trick pony.

I'm open to other suggestions, only thing is I'm already playing a Magus and a Summoner in other games so those are out. And I don't want to play a cleric or pally( I just hate lawful good requirements for pallys )

I don't know if your friend is dead set on playing an elementalist arcane caster (I assume he'll either go for sorcerer with an elemental bloodline or a wizard with an elemental school) but I'd highly suggest both of you playing hybrid characters. Maybe he could go with magus and you could play the ranger. That animal companion will definitely help. I'd suggest druid, though. Get a more powerful AC, get better casting and only hurt your BAB a little. An oracle of nature would work as well. You can get a mount that functions like an AC and if you're a small character, that would be a wolf. Both of those will get much needed cure spells, as well.

I'm starting an intro adventure on Monday with just two players. Granted, they will be joined by 4 more PCs once we kick off the actual campaign, but for now it's just the 2 of them. They are playing an oracle of battle and a bard (possibly an archaeologist bard). Between the two of them, I think they'll do just fine. Of course, I'm tweaking the adventure to account for a smaller party. I'd suggest your GM do the same. Or he could play a support type GMPC.

Hope that helps, and good luck!

Silver Crusade

Realy with two players. You should both get to gether and find out how to fill all the gaps you need with the two characters. When playing with just two players each of you will have to cover meny jobs. If you can not do this you fail. It become more what do we need. Not what do I want. Each of you will have to cover two jobs min. What you need arcane caster, divine caster, martal class, and skill monkey.

My top suggestion.( This covers every thing with two classes.)
Hedge Witch ( Arcane caster with spontaneous cure spells. Mix in Healing Patron and you have a arcane clerc.)
Urban Ranger ( You lose some of the ranger abilitys to cover the rogue job. You still have access to hunters bond. You only loose handle animal as a class skill. It will still be high enough to use for your animal companion.)


I'm going to paint with a wider brush here, just to push in the right direction:
1) You both need healing of some sort. If the healer goes down, then you're done. Even if it's just a wand, you both need something.
2) Animal companions, mounts, familiars, eidolons, and any other allies you can get on your side will be a huge help. Action economy is a killer. Don't be a victim.
3) Unless you and your DM/GM prefer to roleplay social situations, one of you needs a half decent diplomacy, bluff, or intimidate. There are many options for boosting these (intimidating prowess, rogue talents, etc), but someone has to take the responsibility at least a bit.
4) Be careful about getting yourselves too backed into a corner. In larger groups, you are able to specialize, but with just two, you both need to do a little bit of everything. Gishes recommended. This connects to my first point about healing.

Hope this helps to point in the right direction.

More specific advice: I recommend clerics, summoners, and druids highly.
Magus, Witches, Rangers, Paladins even are also good choices.
I don't recommend fighters, barbarians, wizards, or sorcerers.


I suggest druid. Druids are the best class for changing roles. Mind you, you should build the character with a focus, but the druid is IMO the most flexible across the whole 20 levels. You can heal, you can fight, you can cast, you can socialize.

I recommend that for spellcasting with a druid you focus on heals and buffs with some utility spells in if you can afford them. Your animal companion can be your guardian or your flanking buddy. If you want to wild shape a lot, look at an Animal Shaman archetype. They get big fast.

Best of luck. Two-man teams are hard, for players and DMs.


Perhaps consider gestalt characters. They're not that much more powerful than standard characters but are a lot more flexible.


Talk to your dm about allowing gestalt characters. If your dm is dead set against that idea, you need to talk to your friend. An elementalist wizard is far too specialized to for a 2 pc party. You should be looking at mixed classes like the bard, druid, inquisitor, witch, summoner, paladin, or magus. You need a variety of abilities or you will be in serious trouble.


Eriyoth wrote:

So I am about to start a new game where there will be only 2 players + the DM.

/ And I somehow need to cover everything else.....yay. We are allowed every pathfinder "core" books (Core, APG, UM, UC)

Did your DM specifically exclude NPC´s/secondary characters,

wouldn´t you want this anyway or just haven´t thought about it yet?

How about a third Level NPC, fighter/barbarian/rogue/healing machine?

The DM could play him or you both or each of you get a cohort? Can be fun too.

Aside from that, i´d propably recommend the druid to, or take a Lvl Nature-Cleric to get healing, you´ll need that before the ranger gets spells and those you wánt to be lead-blades or gravitybow.


I was hoping I could avoid being the party healer, so that we each take care of our own healing and provide for the other if in need or out of options. Is it actually possible to do it with less healing? i.e. wands and potions, our DM is usually pretty good and logical, she will adjust the encounters to make it survivable. I also doubt she will play an NPC herself, maybe from time to time but I don't think we will have a permanent helper. Gestalt isn't allowed so that's out the window.

I wanted to avoid being too much of a caster. That's why I would have gone Ranger instead of Druid. And a druid has to keep track of the wild shapes, the summons, in addition to the animal companion and spells. I'm already doing this with my summoner, I'm not up for doing that with another character. It would feel as if I'm playing the same character with animal friends instead of demon friends.

Let's say i decide to take calagnar's advice and I make an Urban Ranger.(it seems that playing a ranger has really grown on me) Should i make a switch hitter with a flanking animal companion, or should I go pure archery, with snap shot and point blank master with my animal companion as a mount.

Thanks for the input so far, trying to convince my friend to change his idea on the Elementalist ^^.


A switch hitter urban ranger is going cover almost every job except for spell casting. So your friend will need to cover almost all spell casting.

What I would suggest is for him to play a human oracle of flames with the haunted curse. This will give him the blasting he wants but at the same time he will be the party healer. This will also give him better survivability in combat as he can at least wear medium armor and has a 3/4 BAB. Once he gets to 7th level have him take leadership for a cohort. Take extra spells for the favored class bonus at every level. Even extra 0 level spells are going to help.

Take the feat Boon Companion to boost your animal companion to decent levels. For the animal companion you are going to be limited. Go for the cheetah or panther. A large companion is nice, but will have trouble taking everywhere. You are going to need everything you can muster so leaving your companion behind is not going to cut it.
As a ranger you are a spell caster so you will need to do your part there. Scrolls, Wands and the like are going to be a necessity for both of you.

Silver Crusade

I wold go str base two weapon fighting with animal companion. And still carry a bow, but not spend feats on archery. Drop it as a free action and draw two weapons as a move action. My personl weapons of choice kukri. With the threat range to incresses the number of criticals. If you can take eastern weapons from UC Wakizashi is a realy nice weapon for two weapon fighting. The other option you have is to go weapon and shield. Still taking two weapon style combat feats. Givning you the exta attacks from the improved and greater two weapon fighting with the shield. And still geting the feats for weapon and shield combat with out chaning your damage much. As long as you use the shield as your main hand weapon and a light weapon in the off hand untill you get shield master.

Somthing like.
Human: Toughness
1: Improved shield bash
2 RCS: Two Weapon Fighting
3: Double Slice
5: Power Attack
6 RCS: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
7: Shield Slam
9: Improved Critical: Falcata
10 RCS: Quick Draw
11: Shield Master
13: Improved Bull Rush
15: Greater Bull Rush


In the Carrion Crown campaign I'm running with 4 people, two of the players are virtually an unstoppable combat machine with their witch/paladin combo, I know you don't like the LG requirement, but if you have a DM who's not like me, maybe he'll just play a little loose with the alignments

Silver Crusade

calagnar wrote:

I wold go str base two weapon fighting with animal companion. And still carry a bow, but not spend feats on archery. Drop it as a free action and draw two weapons as a move action. My personl weapons of choice kukri. With the threat range to incresses the number of criticals. If you can take eastern weapons from UC Wakizashi is a realy nice weapon for two weapon fighting. The other option you have is to go weapon and shield. Still taking two weapon style combat feats. Givning you the exta attacks from the improved and greater two weapon fighting with the shield. And still geting the feats for weapon and shield combat with out chaning your damage much. As long as you use the shield as your main hand weapon and a light weapon in the off hand untill you get shield master.

Somthing like.
Human: Toughness
1: Improved shield bash
2 RCS: Two Weapon Fighting
3: Double Slice
5: Power Attack
6 RCS: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
7: Shield Slam
9: Improved Critical: Falcata
10 RCS: Quick Draw
11: Shield Master
13: Improved Bull Rush
15: Greater Bull Rush

fix the feats;/

9: improved Critical: Scimitar (seting up for level 11 Shield Master.)

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