So I was looking at the piecemeal armor rules and I think that this is really just broken and unusable in some cases. First It doesn't specify what you are supposed to do with the armor check penalty in the example it just takes the worst piece's so thats what my example will use.
My first look was I just took the three lowest pieces on the list.
Tatami-do arms, O-yori legs, and A stone coat torso. This armor cost 900 gp has a tremendous +12 ac bonus, 0 max dex -7 armor check penalty, and 45% spell failure. Oh this counts as heavy armor That too me is just way better than full plate.
My second look I was trying to make the best possible combination.
Lemellar horn arms, Hide legs, and a chain torso. This armor has +9 ac, + 4 max dex -2 armor check penalty, and 35% arcane spell failure. this is medium armor. Its cost 128gp.
Best Possible Light armor, just because.
Padded arms, Padded arms, and a haramaki torso. this armor costs 5gp, +2 ac, +8 max dex, 0 armor check penalty and has a spell failure of 10%
These were made with basic materials, no mithril not even master worked.
After beginning to read this section I really wanted to like it.
I was wondering what other peoples thoughts on the system was, And if anyone had opinions on how to fix it and make it a little less power-gamy and seething with optimization potential.
I am having trouble wrapping my head around "piecemeal armor" in the first place.
I was under the impression that armor was already an amalgamation of parts (leather/padded in places, chain backing/joints with a breastplate of metal, etc), that gave an overall AC bonus to represent that combination.
About the only purpose that can be figured with this system is to combine it with Called Shots, so if someone went for a more lightly armored "arm", the lower AC of that specific arm might outweigh the penalty to attack?
Seems like a fairly complicated system though, and to me needlessly so. I prefer discrete methods of Called Shot system (refluffing Power Attack for instance, or basing it off of critical hits or con damage attacks, or when someone hits negative hitpoints, etc).
Adding to well known existing mechanics feels the better approach to me.
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I am having trouble wrapping my head around "piecemeal armor" in the first place.
I was under the impression that armor was already an amalgamation of parts (leather/padded in places, chain backing/joints with a breastplate of metal, etc), that gave an overall AC bonus to represent that combination.About the only purpose that can be figured with this system is to combine it with Called Shots, so if someone went for a more lightly armored "arm", the lower AC of that specific arm might outweigh the penalty to attack?
Seems like a fairly complicated system though, and to me needlessly so. I prefer discrete methods of Called Shot system (refluffing Power Attack for instance, or basing it off of critical hits or con damage attacks, or when someone hits negative hitpoints, etc).
Adding to well known existing mechanics feels the better approach to me.
i think it for when you have a full plat fighter who finds that 1 really b+@&+in breastplate and is like "damn it. this is +3, but its lower ac than my +1 full plate. if only i could swap out art of it..."
i like the idea, it also allows for cooler "legacy" armors where the sleves grant 1 magic ability, the megs another, ect.
als WE FINALLY GET PANTS!!!!
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Lemellar horn arms, Hide legs, and a chain torso. This armor has +9 ac, + 4 max dex -2 armor check penalty, and 35% arcane spell failure. this is medium armor. Its cost 128gp.
Wouldn't that be +7 AC, + 4 Max Dex?
Four mirror torso, Lamellar horn arms, Hide legs would just cost 47 gp, less than a normal scale mail and offer +8 AC, +4 Max Dex.The best heavy armor would be plate torso, scale arms and legs.
+9 AC, +3 Max Dex, -4 ACP, ASF 40%, 220 gp.
Making it out of mithral would 7220 gp, but you'd end up with +9 AC, +5 Max Dex, -1 ACP and 30% ASF. Take the Armor Expert trait and a level of cavalier (emissary) or oracle (metal) and enjoy your new AC.
Stone Coat: This weighty cuirass consists of lamellar
crafted from alchemically treated stone. If worn with other armor pieces, this torso armor piece gains no armor bonus from the other armor pieces, and all of the added hindrances.no 12 ac for you
I was thinking, you know I should read the stone coat before I post this but I Decided not to and sure enough i was wrong.
Wouldn't that be +7 AC, + 4 Max Dex?
Four mirror torso, Lamellar horn arms, Hide legs would just cost 47 gp, less than a normal scale mail and offer +8 AC, +4 Max Dex.The best heavy armor would be plate torso, scale arms and legs.
+9 AC, +3 Max Dex, -4 ACP, ASF 40%, 220 gp.
Yeah, My medium was wrong, Darn my horrible math skills. But still A medium armor that is better than full plate, I don't know how much I could trust this system. Maybe diss allowing any of the eastern armor pieces. Still you can make the better than full plate heavy armor.
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Stone Coat: This weighty cuirass consists of lamellar
crafted from alchemically treated stone. If worn with other armor pieces, this torso armor piece gains no armor bonus from the other armor pieces, and all of the added hindrances.no 12 ac for you
I was thinking, you know I should read the stone coat before I post this but I Decided not to and sure enough i was wrong.
Yeah, My medium was wrong, Darn my horrible math skills. But still A medium armor that is better than full plate, I don't know how much I could trust this system. Maybe diss allowing any of the eastern armor pieces. Still you can make the better than full plate heavy armor.Wouldn't that be +7 AC, + 4 Max Dex?
Four mirror torso, Lamellar horn arms, Hide legs would just cost 47 gp, less than a normal scale mail and offer +8 AC, +4 Max Dex.The best heavy armor would be plate torso, scale arms and legs.
+9 AC, +3 Max Dex, -4 ACP, ASF 40%, 220 gp.
hmmm. math doesnt lie on that, des it. Welp, hate to say it but FAQ it so they hit it with ye olde bat of Nerfing
Seriously, what gives with all the over-the-top Japan-love all of a sudden?
Have you seen the dreaded 'K' sword threads? It's been this way for a long time...
Just for asthetic purposes, I calculated the values for a studded leather torso with plate arms/legs. What I got was a horribly overpriced mess of awful AC combined with even more awful penalties. Not even mithral would save that horrible combination, which it could never be anyway since studded leather can't be mithral.
Piecemeal armor is a cool idea, but I strongly dislike the way they implemented it. Also, as you mentioned, they make no note of what the ACP is supposed to be, but I assume it's whichever one is worse, just like with the other penalties.
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Yeah, curse those designers and their optional rules!
I see nothing that bothers me much about these rules. Armor has long wanted to be more interesting IMO, and the word "optional" means that GMs concerned about abuses should simply ignore the rule.
PCs with slightly higher ACs don't break the game, especially not in mid-high levels. I welcome this rule as it will fix the sense that everyone is wearing the same thing.
If you think any variant rule will be rigorous enough to withstand serious optimization, I suggest you revise your expectations.
Yeah, curse those designers and their optional rules!
I see nothing that bothers me much about these rules. Armor has long wanted to be more interesting IMO, and the word "optional" means that GMs concerned about abuses should simply ignore the rule.
PCs with slightly higher ACs don't break the game, especially not in mid-high levels. I welcome this rule as it will fix the sense that everyone is wearing the same thing.
If you think any variant rule will be rigorous enough to withstand serious optimization, I suggest you revise your expectations.
The huge disparity in costs is my big issue, when you look at the o-yori torso piece, It costs 750gp, and is inferior to both the agile plate, and full plate torso pieces. I don't expect the rules to be perfect. but I would think they would follow the logic of the base armor rules, where the pieces are priced by their statistics rather than just arbitrarily given random prices.
I really want to love this system, I love the Idea behind it. I just wish it was better executed. The way it is now, It needs to be completely re-written just to use it.
Seems like it should be easy enough to rewrite them though, or not?
Also why not have more 1/2 AC here and there, such that it is rounded down unless it ends up with an even number?
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Seems like it should be easy enough to rewrite them though, or not?
Also why not have more 1/2 AC here and there, such that it is rounded down unless it ends up with an even number?
Piecemeal can't work for Pathfinder. Either piecemeal armor is worse than normal armor and becomes obsolete once the characters can buy mithral shirts, breastplates and fullplates. Or it's better and makes regular armor obsolete.
There is no middle ground. Armor in Pathfinder has two primary statistics, AC bones and Max Dex, with ACP as a secondary one. ASF is either affects your character or it doesn't and if it affects you, you usually avoid it altogether.If you want your character to wear piecemeal armor, just take a regular one and describe it differently.
I can only see this as useful for something like gladiators who are limited to their armor in the ring, or in an almost apocalyptic setting like Dark Sun and you adopt the piecemeal system TOTALLY to the exclusion of full sets because metal itself is so exotic and rare.
I could see it being useful if the regular armor system wasn't used, and then each piece was enchanted individually. Could allow interesting loot for DMs to give out.
I would run it like...
Arms: Maximum enchantments 2.
Legs: Maximum enchantments 3.
Chest: Maximum enchantments 5.
and then allow the Armor Enhancement Bonus to stack to +5.
Armor enchanting costs would need to be tweaked appropriately though.