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That does sound like a low WIS character to me. I think of your general Luna Lovegood from the Harry Potter series type for low WIS. That is, they've got a very wide-range of facts and ideas to pull from, but no idea how to connect them or when they're appropriate.With 7 intelligence should he even be speaking in full sentences?Hmm, I should introduce you all to Kanli the Mad, my Aberrant Sorcerer. He's a garrulous, larger-than-life fellow who can wax rhapsodic for hours about the continued attempts of frogs to seduce the Granite Heirophant. He will lead you in prayer to worship the Blood Goddess, and himself, the Bloody Prophet, the Red Hand. He will explain how he recognized that his effectiveness was lacking due to the fact his hands spent far too much time at the ends of his arms, and that he has been working to remedy that. He regualrly notes the passage of shadow denizens as they migrate through this reality. He relishes the power of the Golden Mushroom. He enjoys reminiscing multiple possibilities with the nonexistent.
He is, of course, completely full of it. But hey, he's got a 7 Intelligence, and nearly no skill points. He has no clue about how things actually work around him. But he never lets the truth stop him.
Care for some eagle jerky? You can pick your teeth with the feathers.
Kanli also has a 7 Wisdom.
I think what you're trying to argue is that a class which supports more diverse character concepts is a better roleplaying class.
The point I was trying to make was that I agreed with your post. I wasn't trying to "argue" at all.
*shrug*
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I disagree, I think the reason skills are largely seen as irrelevant is that too many DM/GM let things slide due to roleplaying when they should be requiring skill checks.
I am guilty of that as well. If someone is making a passionate speech and including historical quotes and all. If you really want to stress skills should be making at least 3 checks. Linguistic, diplomacy and knowledge (history).
Of course most of time I handwave it but it doesn't mean that makes it right.
You're right, of course. We're all playing the game wrong. Your way sounds much more fun.
I just do not see where the wizard is superior to the sorcerer unless you just enjoy keeping track of spellbooks and preparing spells. Honestly I even like a lot of the sorcerer bloodlines more than the wizard schools. I have been sold on the sorcerer in pathfinder and I was an adamant wizard supporter in 3.5. In my opinion the wizard should have the same number of slots per day as the sorcerer. The ability to cast what you want in the moment is enough to make up for having a limited list of spells known.
As a guy who plays wizards, I've always found that keeping track of spellbooks is their key strength. Sorcerers have a spell list, and that's it. That list is all they can do.
Wizards have the ability to reinvent themselves daily, and if you use the Fast Study discovery from UM, they can also reinvent themselves on the fly, so long as they keep slots open to prepare just before they need them.
(Admittedly you don't always HAVE a minute, but this is why you only leave the lower level utility spell slots open)
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You both are sorta right. For example here is the background for my PFS Oracle--
Lady Eleise is haunted by her twin brother George. Two years ago, her parents let them attend the opera alone as a birthday present. Unfortunately it was the the premeire performance of 'Among the Living', a night that became infamous with the massacre of many members of Taldoran Nobility at the hands of Zyphus cult at the House of the Immortal Son. She was fortunate to survive.
Soon after that terrible night the dreams began; her brother promising his return, whispering into her ear. Night after night he came, and gradually she came to understand. George was now part of something much greater then himself; he was part of glorius Zyphus.
Soon she took up Opera, in order to connect her to her brother and all those who joined Zyphus that evening two years ago. As time went on her connection to her brother, to Zyphus, grew stronger until she could manifest his powers in the world.
She learned a great many things; that in time she could join him. But she also knew she must help others join Zyphus. She'd seen the deadly power of the Pathfinders who had saved the lives of many from Zyphus' minions.
She also became aware of how effective the Pathfinder Society was in helping many people 'accidentally' die. With that in mind so she has decided to join them, doing her utmost to aid them. Every death brings her closer to her brother. His presence can be felt in the shadows around her and the ghostly voices that whisper to her. She knows in time he will rise in all his glory--with her aid.
Thing is, it could work for a Witch. The fluff could define her patron. Is it a social interaction? That's debateable. If you decided to build a witch who charmed an extra planar being to give her powers, it's good to design your witch with social skills. You can also write a witch whose class and patronage is a curse.
When I play this oracle, she is frequently listening to unseen voices and responding with answers. Is it fluff? The written background is fluff. The way I play has a direct position on how I play the character. So is it a social interaction? I say yes. Is a witch's active, role played interaction with her patron a social interaction? If it is played as such, then it is.
And if you disagree with me, that's fine too.
With that, here is the Witch Class Theme Song with the bard in question playing the role of a witch very well.
Couldn't theoretically a witch get her powers by helping a supernatural being solve a riddle? and then it would be int based and be a character concept where you could not be good at charisma but still have witch powers.
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Couldn't theoretically a witch get her powers by helping a supernatural being solve a riddle? and then it would be int based and be a character concept where you could not be good at charisma but still have witch powers.
Yes. But the thing is you can come up with many backgrounds for a witch that can involve anything from something like that to slow enslavement. High Charisma witch is just one template in the back of peoples minds.
I'm beginning to have a major preference for sorcerers over wizards, especially in the role playing department. Here's why:
A typical wizard will have a staggering hodgepodge of useful utility, damage, debuffing and other spells. You get so many new spells granted that you can learn large chunks of the classes' spell list.
On the other hand, a sorcerer has so few spells to gain per level that he can sort of collect every spell around a certain theme. For example, a necromancer can make it his goal to collect only death spells and related dark, icky spells like black tentacles, undead anatomy and perhaps magic missiles modified by sickening spell.
On top of that the sorcerer gets awesome flavor abilities based off his bloodline which in many cases are actually pretty damn good.
I see wizards as more of a minmax class and sorcerers as more of a role playing option, with wizards summoning dire badgers one minute and throwing fireballs the next where a sorcerer can have a more cohesive theme and still function fairly well.
Anyone agree?
nope. The RP will vary from game to game. You can always make your own background story. I see a class as nothing, but a bag of mechanics.
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Let's make this easy. I want someone to tell me how a person can be a consort to someone else without that relationship being a social relationship.
It is, but it doesn't need to involve high charisma. For example, a patron may pick someone with low charisma because they could be manipulated into turning to witchcraft for revenge against those who have treated them badly. Perhaps the pact is intergenerational or the patron is literally their parent or the parents sold the soul of their child at a young age. Perhaps the would be witch tricked the patron through her own cleverness or the patron chose to grant power for some weird reason of their own. Maybe it was a mistake they cannot undo.
Basically, the patron consort relationship can be a heck of a lot things, not all of which have to do with charisma/sex. Some, like 'daddy was the devil/fey/whatever the social relationship need not be with the witch herself or even distant/hostile.
EDIT: Found a background for a 4e warlock I wrote for a contest a few years ago that could be translated very well into a Pathfinder witch. She has no social relationship with her patron. Note the theme of the contest was redemption and parts are unpleasant, though I think it would fit well in Cheliax.
“No, we will not,” the tree whispered. “Not until you make a pact.”
“I make no pact with you. When I am free, me and mine will cut you down.”
“You are encased within us,” the leaves rustled. “We have time.”
The Huntsman’s Club is an institution among the young bucks of the Issurian Aristocracy. It is not official, though most of the noblemen have been members at one time or another. Their sons and heirs run it. Its existence is never acknowledged. Its crimes are never prosecuted. After all, no crimes are committed. A noble after all, may command perfect obedience from his inferiors and if they refuse to obey, the crime is with them. It serves two important functions for the upper class.
First, those noble scions that do not embrace its activities are seen as “not having the spirit” needed to run the government and are frozen out of office…unless their troublesome attitudes warrant elimination. True, some members suffer unfortunate accidents while pursuing the club’s activities. Again the unworthy for high office are eliminated.
Time had passed since Henri had been encased. The leaves of the tree had fallen and snow covered the earth and turned green again.
Once, he had seen searchers. He had wanted to cry out…but could not. In the end, no one had come for Henri.
Henri felt the sap coursing through him, along with the blood. He felt his heart beating slowly. He felt his belongings being rejected, passing through him and then expunged. Bits of cloth hung on the branches. Rusted metal sat upon the ground in front of the tree.
He longed to return home, yet home seemed so far away. Perhaps…with so much sap in him the tree would not notice.
He tried to move.
“You must make a pact.”
Secondly, the club teaches commoners the importance of obedience. Those who are disobedient, for example, unable to pay their taxes, are visited more often by the club. Of course, everyone should expect to “be reminded of their proper place in the order of things,” on occasion. You see, the club’s sole purpose is to allow the young bucks to sample the “fair nymphs” of the lower classes. Should some young maiden resist, “just so much more sport.”
Henri Va’Vrin was once a leading light, if light was proper term, of the Huntsman’s Club. He pursued the club’s activities with passion. Was willing to discipline it’s members, and had an eye for the pretty ladies. He also had a “sporting streak” that set him above the common members. You see, with every conquest he left a parting gift; 50 freshly minted gp. This was the cost of one year’s dues to the Issurian prostitute’s guild. One thing he always looked forward to was the Spring Hunt. The rural environs in which it was held tended to produce maidens more likely to resist. Henri liked resistance.
This year, it was being held in Merere Village, on the outskirts of Anitch Forest. There were rumored to be gates to the Fey in the Anitich. There were said to be pools of water that would transform you into an animal and stories of woodsmen who left home in the morning and returned in the evening old men. Such stories were to add spice to the hunt. A modern, city bred gentleman worthy of the name would not believe such superstitious nonsense.
Henri or once what had been swayed in the wind. It had been many years since his absorption. The world of men seemed so far off. It felt good to let the rain pat the bark that covered him.
“It is time to make a pact,” the tree whispered.
“Why must I make a pact?” Henri asked, vaguely curious. For some reason not making a pact seemed important once upon a time.
“Why now?” In truth, the world outside the tree seemed strange.
“It is time. Without the pact you will not learn what you need to learn.” Henri felt the tree moving its wood from Henri. Slowly, Henri knew it was being pushed from the tree.
“I will make the pact.” Henri knew that the tree knew Henri was ready.
Henri, felt the cool air on his skin. He opened his eyes and marveled at how bright the world was. Energy coursed through Henri. Henri tumbled to the ground, wondering how much lighter he seemed.
Then Henri forgot…everything.
The first maiden of the hunt was a shepardess. She had seen them and ran into the forest Henri and his friend Martin would had her cornered had Martin not been knocked down by a low lying branch of a tree. As he closed upon his victim, she huddled beneath a large oak. Trapped, she had nowhere to go. He closed. Then suddenly branches surrounded him. They seemed to grab his arms as he rose into the air. Below him, he saw the girl cursing him. He closed his eyes for a moment as he bashed into the tree, only, instead of hardwood, he seemed to merge with the tree being surrounded. He tried to shout his curses, but to no avail.
Henri merged with the tree, and stayed trapped a very long time.
Margot laughed as mama poured water over her. She shook, felt the cloth towel cover her. She smiled at mama, who was drying her, then laughed again as she tickled her. This was her weekly bath. Tomorrow would be work again. On a farm there was always work.
Margot was adopted into the Velliers family when she was found at the base of the oak. She was the youngest of six children on a farm.
Margot laughed a lot and the village children seemed to follow her lead, for she was very clever, though not always wise. They played on the edge of the forest bandit and knight, goblins, elves and orcs, all sorts of things.
Once, when they came to a giant oak tree, Simone, a girl about her age told her that Margot had been found in front of the tree and had been adopted by her parents. Margot had laughed. Still, the tree seemed familiar.
In time she began to note little things. She grew up more slowly then the other girls. She could see better in the dark and her ears had a slight point. Her long chestnut hair was delicate, like cornsilk. Nobody else’s hair was so fine. Yea, there were whispers about her and rumors, but nothing she could not dismiss with a joke.
Her world changed when she was about sixteen (through she looked more like thirteen) and the Huntsman’s Club came once again to Merere Village. It was a surprise and she was out slaughtering hogs when four huntsmen showed in the pen she doing her work in.
Though she hadn’t planned it the hog kept them from seeing that she had a weapon. When the first who approached her soon found a sickle into his chest. As he lay twitching on the ground two drew weapons as the other comforted his friend. Within a moment and a word another was dead and in a second a third fell. The young boy stared in abject terror at his companions. When he asked for mercy, she pulled out the sickle from his injured friend, so that he would bleed out quicker.
At that moment Margot remembered being Henri. She stared at the boy who had comforted his dying friend.
She was ashamed and disgusted and shocked.
She asked if this was the boy’s first hunt. He nodded.
“Are you a virgin,” she asked.
“Uh….ye—yes…Mademoiselle,” he answered, pale yet very polite. He looked not more then thirteen or fourteen himself.
“Stay that way for a while longer.” He stumbled, stuttered something as he, got up and ran for his life. She stood stunned, by what she had done.
Then she knew of the pact she had made. She knew the price of her freedom. She was no longer Henri. On the other hand she still had the charisma that caused his memory to live. The way she had bullied the young boy was so much like Henri. Yet now she was a girl, if act in a few years she would be their ideal victim (not that she wasn’t a target now) and the thought of what he’d done horrified her.
Over time she would found out more. Henri was something of a legend. His custom of “tipping” his victims was now the custom of the Huntsman’s Club. There was portrait of him. There was even a legend that a nymph had been so impressed with his performance that she had kept him. Such tales were used to inspire future generations.
Yet…Henri was her.;
She went into the settlement where she, Margot had grown up and chased out or killed those Huntsmen who had come to commit crimes. Sometimes she was in time. Sometimes she was not. She got to see those consequences of that up close as well.
With the scions of six noble families slain, the people of the Merere village fled to other towns, moving in with relatives and friends so that they would not be easy targets themselves. Her home was again no more.
As for Margot, she knew the Huntsman’s Club. She knew their patterns, their behaviors. She also knew what she must do. She went to the capital, where the most of the Huntsman’s club membership could be found.
She and her allies have since began to deal with the Huntsmen, either by killing the more brutalized, older members or by intimidating its younger members. Needless to say, she is hunted. This has led her to flee the capital recently, retreating into Anitch Forest. Still she will not quit until Henri’s legacy is undone and the aristocracy learns its place…or is removed.
I find the flavor of the sorcerer with "strange blood" to actually be kind of insulting and disgusting. The Aberrant bloodline is worded in such a way that your blood could seriously just be a mutation and the Efreeti Bloodline suggests that an Efreeti cast a spell on your mother while she was pregnant (which makes for some cool story possibilities) and both of those are interesting. But having the Abyssal Bloodline because my great grandmother was raped by a Glabrezu or a Dretch or something is way darker than the game needs to be and, quite frankly, it's is the sort of crap I would expect to see on 4chan. Sorcerers shouldn't be dragon descendants or lich descendants any more than they should be owlbear descendents.
In my game I changed the flavor text of the Abyssal, Infernal, and Draconic Bloodline to suggest that you are the decendant of someone who worshiped and was granted powers by a Fiend or Dragon. Not someone who had sex with a Vrock. I changed the Undead Bloodline to where 1 in 1 million mothers who die during childbirth pass on their final moment into their infant. Its still tragic and totally grimdark, but it isn't on the same level of grimdark as lich rape.
I find the flavor of the sorcerer with "strange blood" to actually be kind of insulting and disgusting. The Aberrant bloodline is worded in such a way that your blood could seriously just be a mutation and the Efreeti Bloodline suggests that an Efreeti cast a spell on your mother while she was pregnant (which makes for some cool story possibilities) and both of those are interesting. But having the Abyssal Bloodline because my great grandmother was raped by a Glabrezu or a Dretch or something is way darker than the game needs to be and, quite frankly, it's is the sort of crap I would expect to see on 4chan. Sorcerers shouldn't be dragon descendants or lich descendants any more than they should be owlbear descendents.
In my game I changed the flavor text of the Abyssal, Infernal, and Draconic Bloodline to suggest that you are the decendant of someone who worshiped and was granted powers by a Fiend or Dragon. Not someone who had sex with a Vrock. I changed the Undead Bloodline to where 1 in 1 million mothers who die during childbirth pass on their final moment into their infant. Its still tragic and totally grimdark, but it isn't on the same level of grimdark as lich rape.
The verdant bloodline does not make much sense either. Also how do we know the human isn't the one doing the rape.
The verdant bloodline does not make much sense either. Also how do we know the human isn't the one doing the rape.
We don't, but I didn't want to be too pedantic. Of course whether a group of Vrocks tag teamed your grandma or your grandma made a Hezrou her play thing or even if grandma and the Dretch fell head over heals in love with each other and enjoyed a couple of decades of blissful and consensual relations, I still don't like it. "Grandpa got it on with a succubus" isn't too bad, but the idea of most demons having sex invokes violent rape hentai images in my head. That's just not something I want to think about in my games.
Verdant is pretty weird too, but it doesn't explicitly imply that your ancestors were getting it on with shambling mounds or yellow musk creepers or whatever. That would be horrifying though. It says some of your ancestors "infused" themselves with plant power or...something. Considering that you don't require sunlight and your skin isn't green I guess we can assume that they didn't fuse you're DNA with plant traits to gain any abilities that actual plant creatures might have. Which of course makes one wonder just what they DID do to grant you with plant powers that plant creatures don't actually have. Who knows, maybe they just smok-... I mean "Infused" a bunch of magical mushrooms.
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Perhaps the pact is intergenerational or the patron is literally their parent or the parents sold the soul of their child at a young age.That'd be a sorcerer (ie. bloodline)
You can come up with a pact that is a sorcerer bloodline. You can also write it and play it as a witches pact just like a two weapon frontline fighter could be Ranger or a Fighter or several other things.
Perhaps the would be witch tricked the patron through her own cleverness or the patron chose to grant power for some weird reason of their own. Maybe it was a mistake they cannot undo.That kind of trickery involves charisma (see Bluff).
Again, it can. But it can be something along the lines of 'can you answer this riddle of power' with and an answer based off intelligence.
And a simple mistake has nothing to do with Charisma.
And your story emphasizes charisma.
Yes, but the Charisma has nothing to do with the pact directly. You could argue that a Charismatic person just happened to be at the wrong/right place at the right time. There is nothing certainly, that resembles a social relationship between a witch and her consort.
There are also several examples you ignored. So, while I agree that charisma very often is a trait of the witch, it is not always.
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We don't, but I didn't want to be too pedantic. Of course whether a group of Vrocks tag teamed your grandma or your grandma made a Hezrou her play thing or even if grandma and the Dretch fell head over heals in love with each other and enjoyed a couple of decades of blissful and consensual relations, I still don't like it. "Grandpa got it on with a succubus" isn't too bad, but the idea of most demons having sex invokes violent rape hentai images in my head. That's just not something I want to think about in my games.
The verdant bloodline does not make much sense either. Also how do we know the human isn't the one doing the rape.
I have to ask, why do you find the male ancestor having sex with a succubus okay but are bothered by the female ancestor having sex with a male demon? Most demons powerful enough to grant any boons are generally shapeshifters; or at least potent enough spellcasters to imitate the effect.
Even granting a forcible or ritualistic past, I would be more inclined to picture hokey B-movie Satanic orgy over hentai rape. Distasteful in its own right, but a bit too hackneyed to truly offend.
And that being the case, I'd have to ask if you also avoid anything to do with Tieflings, who would necessarily bring up those same uncomfortable questions? (The "Qlippoth-born" Tiefling must be especially brutal.)
Either way, though, I think the descriptions are vague enough that if a sexual dalliance bothers you it definitely leaves the door wide open for some sort of Fiendish contract.
I have to ask, why do you find the male ancestor having sex with a succubus okay but are bothered by the female ancestor having sex with a male demon? Most demons powerful enough to grant any boons are generally shapeshifters; or at least potent enough spellcasters to imitate the effect.
Perhaps I should clarify that I don't have anything against opting to play a game like that. In fact, my home games can get pretty dark on occasion. I do find the Abyssal bloodline to be insulting and disgusting but also intriguing. It certainly isn't going to make me uncomfortable at the table (I LIKE 4chan after all). But it does really need to be a theme that you CHOOSE to explore with the consent of everyone in the group. But I don't think it should be in the book and I always change any flavor text which implies rape so that way it is not the default assumption.
You're mistaken, there aren't any demons with any power to change their shape. Now dragons on the other hand actually can do this, and I suppose that that would be fine as long as the default assumption is not rape. Of course, I have to then wonder why you aren't a half-dragon or a dragonborn or something.
A succubus is seriously just a hot human woman with wings. But I am actually not okay with it because I'm not okay with rape. It doesn't make me rage or make me uncomfortable to talk about, but it is something I am decidedly against. I just find it less offensive than being raped by a huge size creature whose "armored flesh is scaly and moist. Its large, toothy mouth gapes below a pair of hungry, reptilian eyes." Call me crazy.
Even granting a forcible or ritualistic past, I would be more inclined to picture hokey B-movie Satanic orgy over hentai rape. Distasteful in its own right, but a bit too hackneyed to truly offend.
Like I said, I don't care particularly much whether or not grandma Louis and grandpa Balor lived a happy and peaceful life on the farm together. I just don't want rape or sex with monsters to be the default assumption because many people ARE offended by that kind of thing and because children play this game. When I play with my friends we know each other well enough that we can throw out a torture scene or rape scene and we are all mature enough to handle it. But when my 13 year old cousin joins in I don't want the game telling him that his Half-orc is the "result of perversion and violence" and tell him that it is entirely likely that his mother was a rape victim. Nor do I want him to get the impression that his Orc should be raping people in order to be Orc-like.
And that being the case, I'd have to ask if you also avoid anything to do with Tieflings, who would necessarily bring up those same uncomfortable questions? (The "Qlippoth-born" Tiefling must be especially brutal.)
No, Tieflings don't have demonic ancestors in my game.
Either way, though, I think the descriptions are vague enough that if a sexual dalliance bothers you it definitely leaves the door wide open for some sort of Fiendish contract.
That's what already said that I did. Again, I'm not averse to playing in a game where darker themes are explored as long as it is not the default assumption.
Other ways to get demon ancestry:
Apprentice wants power, fast. Steals masters books, summons something. Demon obliges, 'Yes, power you will get. I want a child.'
Not rape, just prostitution, if there are laws against that, and otherwise barter.
There are demonic implants of some sort all of which involve turning part of you into a demon (and thus, as the abyssal bloodline says, spreading its filth into your bloodline), and even a transformation ritual, where a person can turn him or herself into a demon.
Then there's possession, which is apparently fairly common in some places of the world, allowing a mortal to seemingly go about their normal life with their normal family and social relationships while harboring a great evil inside them ready to spread into the world.
Frankly if you want to go by fictional representations, evil tends to have a sort of radiation with it, and the existence of something like the Worldwound probably causes all manner of 'Grats, it's a boy. With the fiendish template.'
And in regards to no demons having the ability to change their form, there is nothing keeping them from being wizards or sorcerers and changing themselves with magic, or just putting on a hat of disguise before they go bar hopping on Golarion.
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In spite of the use of the term 'bloodline' the flavor text is sprinkled throughout the sorcerer clearly gives examples that don't involve sex, for example, being raised by fey or bargins w/ powers(rather like a witch). I have an idea for an arcane bloodline Sorcerer who was a test subject in Cheliax.
So clearly, you can have your Sorcerer with or without sex.
Also, Succubus has shape change.
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A mechanic can have the charisma of a toad..
..but if they get my car running, quickily and reliably, I'll pay them time and time again.
You do not need Charisma to be useful or to be used.
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But it can be something along the lines of 'can you answer this riddle of power' with and an answer based off intelligence.You've got to convince such a creature to want to play such a game rather than just eat your soul. That requires charisma.
I gotta say, you're assuming an awful lot about the motivations of eldritch powers. Perhaps they're just sitting around looking for something worth noticing, but maybe they're just bureaucrats following orders from an even higher power, maybe they're inured to all the silly little tricks those humans like to think are so clever, maybe they care more for the individuals ability to figure things out and would dump the witch for someone else with a bit more promise of power, maybe the souls they want to eat are the charismatic ones...
Outside the box, man.
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You can come up with a pact that is a sorcerer bloodline. You can also write it and play it as a witches pact just like a two weapon frontline fighter could be Ranger or a Fighter or several other things.You can do all kinds of stuff, but I've been talking about RAW.
RAW for Sorcerers clearly state that a 'bloodline' can be the same as an infernal pact, being raised by fey, etc rather than an actual blood bloodlines.
Logic dictates the same applies to witches.
But it can be something along the lines of 'can you answer this riddle of power' with and an answer based off intelligence.You've got to convince such a creature to want to play such a game rather than just eat your soul. That requires charisma.
Creatures from other planes can have perfectly unfathomable reasons for letting a low Cha character to answer a riddle of power that have nothing to do with Charisma. Maybe they want dinner but have to obey some weird arcane laws for example.
Nothing says the power needs to be 'convinced'. In fact, they may even 'pick' low charisma types because they are more easily turned against those who have treated them badly. Think how attractive giving supernatual abilities to 'Harris and Klebold' types might be for some powers.
My bard who venerates and now is bound to Calistria knows a fey-blooded sorc in my husband's game. The way he regains energy and magical powers is... well... special. Not that my bard objects to intercourse, or the creative activities related to it the sorc seems to love indulging in.
Actually, just dotting because I made my first ever sorc, a Varisian with the dreamspun bloodline, and I am really liking the expression of fluff going on so far. I am thinking to lend some flavor to her spells, mostly enchantments and illusions.
Thank you, Captain Obvious. When I need someone to work on a nuclear reactor, I'm going to find someone with high intelligence. But, when I need someone to establish a pact with an outsider, I'm going to look for someone with high charisma - unless, for inexplicable reasons, I'm a witch..
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.....A mechanic can have the charisma of a toad..
..but if they get my car running, quickily and reliably, I'll pay them time and time again.
You do not need Charisma to be useful or to be used.
What about when an outsider wants someone with magical powers to work on a nuclear resactor?
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I see wizards as more of a minmax class and sorcerers as more of a role playing optionI present to you THE STORMWIND FALLACY
Basically pointing out that "minmax class" and "role playing option" are not mutually exclusive concepts, and in fact, aren't related to each other at all.
Not to derail the thread, but I read the link, and I find it a bit lacking. E.g.:
Optimization factors in to how well one understands the rules and handles synergies to produce a very effective end result. Roleplaying deals with how well a player can act in character and behave as if he was someone else.
This premise only holds true if one believes that roleplaying beings AFTER character creation. There is little character basis for taking someone else's character build and playing it. In fact one would have to work harder to come up with a plausible backstory as to why this PC, as a youngster, dipped into seven different classes.
In short, the point is logical and sound, but in no way applies in the way it is being presented. Yes these things aren't incongruent, but neither is wealth and poverty.
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Clearly outsiders are supposed to be too stupid to recognize intelligence in potential underlings.That a powerful outsider would select an underling w/o regard to the underling's intelligence is not without precedence (cf "cleric").
..and sometimes Clerics lacking in Charisma are also granted spells.
An outsider might select a Witch lacking in Charisma to further said oustider's schemes.
Both cases are perfectly possible, depending on context.