I think what the feat should be doing is allowing the grifter to pass his lie on to a party member. So, the grifter arrives as the queen's long-lost half brother. The fighter (an ally of the grifter), who has the worse poker face ever, is passing himself off as the grifter's manservant. The queen's advisor interogates the "brother's manservant" and the fighter can use the grifter's bluff bonus to make the "long-lost brother" lie convincing (as long as the grifter is so close to the fighter he can sort of furtively coach/sneak hand signals to the fighter in what to say). This allows the entire party to get involved in the elaborate con and, incidentally, makes the players (even those who didn't create con artists) more willing to attempt elaborate cons.
In fact, the player of the fighter ad libs whatever he wants/needs to to answer the advisor's questions and the grifter's player sort of does what he needs to to sell what the fighter is saying.
I can see how this could get quite fun to play as well as, possibly, comedic and exciting.
+1
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What seems interesting is that all of the gun-variant archetypes for the other classes seem to do a far better job of seating a gun into those classes... and of course all of them are banned in PFS.
Good. -- There's already enough crap in the game to make you feel like a complete chump for spending so much as a wooden nickel on armor.
"Waiter? I'd like more fantasy in my fantasy game and less Enter the Drunken Masters and less Pirates of the Jumped Shark, thank you. Why, I might even think about spending 20,000gp on upgraded mithril Hellknight Plate if I knew that a sawed-off runt gnome with a blunderbuss and one Grit point couldn't blow a hole right through it like I was waltzing around the blood-soaked fields of carnage in my freakin' underwear."
Ultimately, the rapid shotting/deadly aiming archer build of a fighter does a wonderful job of shutting down encounters in PFS play. We've got one in our PFS group and the character chews up encounters in a round or two, almost soloing them. From my own playtest experience of the Gunslinger, and what I read in the final, I can't imagine how this class would be able to steamroll through PFS adventures like an optimized archer.
Uhm, Gun Training? -- while the poor archer is nerfing his attack bonus for Deadly Aim, a Gunslinger is getting free damage equal to his DEX bonus (which I'm just guessing here will be bloody astronomical). Of course the Gunslinger will also be taking Deadly Aim.
And then there's those tastaliscious Grit feats, such as Leaping Shot Deed and Ricochet Shot Deed.
-- Because who wouldn't like to full-attack while moving and engaging opponents hidden around corners?
Oh, and is paying grit for them too much of a pain in the ass? Well, there's Signature Deed for you to make that unbearable pain go away. So you can save those grit points for making people's armor investment worthless.
Yikes.
How on earth are gunslingers doing so much damage?
What am I missing? If you're thinking the double-barreled pistol gives you two shots for every attack roll, I'm not so sure.
How on earth are gunslingers doing so much damage?
What am I missing? If you're thinking the double-barreled pistol gives you two shots for every attack roll, I'm not so sure.
You can dump hit penalty and still hit with deadly aim (since hits touch AC).
Also pisterlo archetype adds 1d6 precision damage (similar to sneak attack) but no conditions. Costs grit till you take that feat that removes that limitation (11th level minimum to take feat though)
But other than that not sure.
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Also pisterlo archetype adds 1d6 precision damage (similar to sneak attack) but no conditions. Costs grit till you take that feat that removes that limitation (11th level minimum to take feat though)
That damage increases. By 11th level (when he can use it all the time), the pistolero does 3d6 and by 20th level, it's 5d6.
With Pistol Training, Deadly Aim, Up Close and Deadly and Double Barreled Pistols, the damage a high level pistolero deals is ridiculous. More than 500 DPR at 16th level for 12 gp per round. It gets even higher with a second Double Barreled Pistol and Boots of Speed.
Also pisterlo archetype adds 1d6 precision damage (similar to sneak attack) but no conditions. Costs grit till you take that feat that removes that limitation (11th level minimum to take feat though)That damage increases. By 11th level (when he can use it all the time), the pistolero does 3d6 and by 20th level, it's 5d6.
With Pistol Training, Deadly Aim, Up Close and Deadly and Double Barreled Pistols, the damage a high level pistolero deals is ridiculous. More than 500 DPR at 16th level for 12 gp per round. It gets even higher with a second Double Barreled Pistol and Boots of Speed.
1. I see by 11th level you no longer need alchemy cartiridges (because reloading is a free action?). That lowers cost a lot.
2. pistol train = dex to damage3. UCaD adds 5d6 (1/2 on a miss)
4. Doubled barrel pistols: 2 shots -4 hit at same attack.
5. Deadly aim: -hit, add damage
Yeah, that works out.
The fact that you get UCaD helps.
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Also pisterlo archetype adds 1d6 precision damage (similar to sneak attack) but no conditions. Costs grit till you take that feat that removes that limitation (11th level minimum to take feat though)That damage increases. By 11th level (when he can use it all the time), the pistolero does 3d6 and by 20th level, it's 5d6.
With Pistol Training, Deadly Aim, Up Close and Deadly and Double Barreled Pistols, the damage a high level pistolero deals is ridiculous. More than 500 DPR at 16th level for 12 gp per round. It gets even higher with a second Double Barreled Pistol and Boots of Speed.1. I see by 11th level you no longer need alchemy cartiridges (because reloading is a free action?). That lowers cost a lot.
2. pistol train = dex to damage
3. UCaD adds 5d6 (1/2 on a miss)
4. Doubled barrel pistols: 2 shots -4 hit at same attack.
5. Deadly aim: -hit, add damage
Yeah, that works out.
The fact that you get UCaD helps.
No, you totally need cartridges. Lightning Reload is horrible. It seems I misremembered the gunsmithing rules, so each shot is 6 gp, making it 60 gp per round. And Pistol Training adds Dexterity+3 by level 17.
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It lets you shoot at any point during your movement, and at two different points if dual. It's essentially a double-barreled, ranged Spring Attack.Leaping Shot Deed is awful. It is seriously one of the worst feats in the book.
It doesn't allow you to full attack while moving. It allows you to make one attack (or two if you are dual wielding),
at the cost of grit and having to fall down.
When you're a ranged combatant, being prone is actually an advantage.
There are plenty of ways in the game to stand up from prone quickly and/or without provoking, so any build with Leaping Shot will incorporate them.
you know this convincing lie ability would be great way to clear out a town. if you can giver yourself enough bonus's and extra added on to the roll and bluff town guard, you can tell him the city is about to be destroyed by a disaster and the people need to flee and leave behind all their goods to run fast as they can. then he uses your check to convince rest of town to flee and then you walk in and take all their stuff. =)
Don't most evacuees take their valuables with them if they are able?
When you're a ranged combatant, being prone is actually an advantage.There are plenty of ways in the game to stand up from prone quickly and/or without provoking, so any build with Leaping Shot will incorporate them.
No, when fighting a ranged person being prone is good, being prone yourself is bad whewn ranged.
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No, it's Shot on the Run, only it costs grit and always knocks you down.But it doesn't require Dodge and Mobility as prerequisites, and it lets you get off two shots with two guns.And dual-wielding guns is pretty lousy, since you can't reload without a free hand, anyway.Leaping Shot Deed (Grit)
You leap through the air, guns blazing.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, grit class feature or Amateur Gunslinger feat, Dodge, Mobility, base attack bonus +4.
Leaping Shot Deed (Grit)
You leap through the air, guns blazing.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, grit class feature or AmateurGunslinger feat, Dodge, Mobility, base attack bonus +4.
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus on Acrobatics checks made to jump. As a full-round action, you can move up to your speed and make firearm attacks at your highest base attack bonus with each loaded firearm you are wielding. You can make these attacks at any point during your movement, and if you are wielding two firearms, you can make the attacks at different points during the movement. At the end of this movement, you fall prone. This deed costs 1 grit point to perform.
Let's get it straight: using 2 duble barreled pistols the user can fire up to 4 times, at his highest attack bonus while moving his full movement, and can fire at several points of his movement?
And then he can drop one without risk of losing it thanks to a weapon cord to to recharge the other.And you think it is a bad option?
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Let's get it straight: using 2 duble barreled pistols the user can fire up to 4 times, at his highest attack bonus while moving his full movement, and can fire at several points of his movement?
And then he can drop one without risk of losing it thanks to a weapon cord to to recharge the other.
And you think it is a bad option?Compared to Shot on the Run? Yes. And Weapon Cords don't let you practically dual-wield, since you can only reload one gun a turn anyway (since retrieving your weapon after dropping it is a swift action).
It's Shot On The Run, with an unnecessary additional cost, and an additional ability that only kicks in if you're using a completely awkward and impractical fighting style. That is a bad feat.
4 shots against one at maximum attack bonus the first round.
Repeat the third round of combat if you have multiple double barrelled weapons loaded.5 every odd round if you have multiple revolvers.
That "maximum attack bonus" part if fairly powerful.
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4 shots against one at maximum attack bonus the first round.
Repeat the third round of combat if you have multiple double barrelled weapons loaded.Two shots every two rounds (if you use an awkward, expensive, inefficient fighting style) at the cost of a grit point. (And it doesn't matter if you use revolvers to get around the reloading time, you still have to stand up from prone.) Or, one shot every round, for no grit points and no time spent prone.
Hmmmmmmmmmm. Perhaps this isn't such a great feat!
As I pointed out, 5 shots everyodd round with multiple pre loaded revolvers (and one during the even round).
So 6 attack every 2 rounds, while moving, all at full bonus, at 1 grit cost, against 2 in 2 rounds.
I don't see it as weaker than shot on the run.
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As I pointed out, 5 shots every odd round with multiple pre loaded revolvers (and one during the even round).
So 6 attack every 2 rounds, while moving, all at full bonus, at 1 grit cost, against 2 in 2 rounds.
I don't see it as weaker than shot on the run.
Wait, do you think this feat allows you to fire one weapon, drop it, draw another, fire that one, drop it, repeat?
No, it doesn't let you do that, don't be silly.
Yes, probably you are right, it don't work with revolvers. So let's stay with double barrelled weapons.
Round one: Quick draw 2 pistols, fire the 2 barrels of one then the 2 barrels of the other. 4 attacks. Spend one grit.
Round 2 rise from prone, move full movement, quick draw 2 other pistols.
Round 3 fire again 4 shots. spend one grit.
Rinse and repeat as long as you have pistols and grit.
Still 4 shots every 2 rounds against 2 every 2 rounds.
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Yes, probably you are right, it don't work with revolvers. So let's stay with double barrelled weapons.
Round one: Quick draw 2 pistols, fire the 2 barrels of one then the 2 barrels of the other. 4 attacks. Spend one grit.
Round 2 rise from prone, move full movement, quick draw 2 other pistols.
Round 3 fire again 4 shots. spend one grit.
Rinse and repeat as long as you have pistols and grit.
Still 4 shots every 2 rounds against 2 every 2 rounds.
...your plan involves owning a double pistol for every round you intend to spend in combat. On top of needing four feats, before you take any feats that actually improve your ability to attack.
You're going pretty far out on a limb to come up with a practical use for this terrible feat.
Shot on the run require 4 feats the same. So why one is wonnerful and the other garbage?
You don't seem much consistent.
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4. Doubled barrel pistols: 2 shots -4 hit at same attack.
Wait, double barreled weapons let you take two attacks with one action?
I've not yet been able to find anything concrete as to whether that counts as two attacks for the purpose of adding sneak attack dice. My guess is that you'd only get one set of dice.