We should really be doing this discussion in character on the other thread -- and my questions for DM Aron should probably be on this thread just to keep everything organized.
Lukan - you want to cut and paste what you just posted here to the IC thread and then we can all respond, probably the best way to do it and get it moved over there.
We should really be doing this discussion in character on the other thread -- and my questions for DM Aron should probably be on this thread just to keep everything organized.
Lukan - you want to cut and paste what you just posted here to the IC thread and then we can all respond, probably the best way to do it and get it moved over there.
I'll just talk to them in character, although Lukan will not discuss some of them as he wouldn't think to try those options. I posted all of these options in the OOC for visibility outside of what our characters discuss. Just throwing stuff on the wall and seeing what sticks.
Soon as we wake up Jameson is going to be mentioning some of these ideas as well, wanted to make sure we got the camped at night stories done first.
sorry I'm not contributing much to the tactical discussion, I'm a bit busy :)
Good plans all of them. I just wanted to try and get some more information from the camp before the attack, and this silly plan is definitely something Bron would suggest.
Good plans all of them. I just wanted to try and get some more information from the camp before the attack, and this silly plan is definitely something Bron would suggest.
Heheh sometimes I think you want to re-roll a new character ;)
Just dawned on me, we have a ring of swimming, it would be interesting to use it if there is a river or pond. We could quietly swim almost into the camp and just watch. If someone sees us, then dive under water and swim as fast as possible (makes me wish I had taken the sea hag version instead of the annis hag that I did.)
@Lukan: Not that at all, but seems I'll be doing that someday not very far...
Bron missed out on the Adventuring 104 class - Bards are not Front Line Fighters
Hehehe... When I GM I give crazy ideas like these high chances of success. The more crazy the better =). But when I GM I tend to do homebrew games, not APs. Correct me if I am wrong, but APs are very structured and aren't very lenient on crazy ideas.
I'm running Serpent Skull and Crimson Throne and have read through parts of other APs here and there, as well as playing in no small number of APs. I would say that in general encounters are written so that there are multiple ways to accomplish them, and the AP is more results oriented than not. This seems to hold true more for later APs rather than the earlier ones, but in general if you accomplish your goal the AP doesn't seem to care how. I've actually only read the kingdom building parts of Kingmaker so I can't tell you if that's true for this AP, but Paizo seems to do a very good job of writing APs that reward the players for creative solutions rather than insist they solve the problem in a specific fashion in order to be rewarded.
Bron missed out on the Adventuring 104 class - Bards are not Front Line Fighters
Heh, you should see my Arcane Duelist build...
Hehehe... When I GM I give crazy ideas like these high chances of success. The more crazy the better =). But when I GM I tend to do homebrew games, not APs. Correct me if I am wrong, but APs are very structured and aren't very lenient on crazy ideas.
as Jameson said you can get rewards for doing things another way, it doesn't all hang on you guys doing exactly what it expects. For instance you might've been crazy enough to have tried to gone as deep as possible into the stolen lands and come across something really horrible, but that's only because this AP is designed to be a true sandbox since you can choose what edicts and buildings are built in your kingdom and the quests don't have to be completed in a certain order neither.
Bron missed out on the Adventuring 104 class - Bards are not Front Line FightersHeh, you should see my Arcane Duelist build...
SHARE PLZ!
*ahem*
I mean, first time bard here, still learning the ropes. Any counsel would be appreciated. Also, how come there aren't any buff spells on bard 1st-level spell list?
Heh, you should see my Arcane Duelist build...
SHARE PLZ!
*ahem*
I mean, first time bard here, still learning the ropes. Any counsel would be appreciated. Also, how come there aren't any buff spells on bard 1st-level spell list?
Heh, you should see my Arcane Duelist build...SHARE PLZ!
*ahem*
I mean, first time bard here, still learning the ropes. Any counsel would be appreciated. Also, how come there aren't any buff spells on bard 1st-level spell list?
Things to do as a Bard
1) Don't get eaten by your opponent.
2) Sing a cheerful song so that your mates get +1 att/damage.
3) Cast Grease and then crack jokes about you opponents inability to stand up.
4) Join the fight if any opponents are standing up and flank the opponents so that your front line gets more hits in.
5) Help your cleric heal.
6) Bluff and Intimidate your opponents just for fun.
Has it been officially anounced that Bronwyn is a caster? I can't think of a specific time where he actually used his spells. Though if we decide to do this infiltration using his suggested path I can see charm person being super helpful, especially since he plays a face very well . Not to mention grease/wand of grease would be a great way to help the two of us skedaddle if things go badly or potentially give me sneak attack damage.
Actually it hasn't yet. I've mostly been using my bardic performance with Oratory, so I don't think it's really out there yet. I meant to infiltrate, try to charm someone and get the information about their numbers and camp (not fight while alone out there).
I got Grease mainly because 1st-level is completely devoid of useful buff spells, but it's really out of the theme I was hoping for this character. I don't mean to be a burden to the group, but I plan to contribute more with buffs and damage than with save-or-suck spells (the reason is I find them extremely frustrating as a GM and as player I'd rather roll my dice than force the enemy to roll a savE).
Yeah that’s pretty weird that Bard doesn't have many early buff spells. You expect that they would have a few more considering that's basically the role they're designed to fill.
We'll see how this whole situation plays out when we find the camp/hunting party. Depending on how Aron starts the encounter we can adapt any of the strategies we have on the table.
Hmmm - it just dawned on me. We got have the ring of swimming. I wonder if we missed anything by not really searching in the water where the frogs were?
|
Heh, you should see my Arcane Duelist build...SHARE PLZ!
*ahem*
I mean, first time bard here, still learning the ropes. Any counsel would be appreciated. Also, how come there aren't any buff spells on bard 1st-level spell list?
Things to do as a 3.0/3.5 Bard
1) Don't get eaten by your opponent.
2) Sing a cheerful song so that your mates get +1 att/damage.
3) Cast Grease and then crack jokes about you opponents inability to stand up.
4) Join the fight if any opponents are standing up and flank the opponents so that your front line gets more hits in.
5) Help your cleric heal.
6) Bluff and Intimidate your opponents just for fun.
Fixed for you ;).
I'll post up an arcane duellist build when I get the time for more than just brief posts :)
Heh, you should see my Arcane Duelist build...SHARE PLZ!
*ahem*
I mean, first time bard here, still learning the ropes. Any counsel would be appreciated. Also, how come there aren't any buff spells on bard 1st-level spell list?
Things to do as a 3.0/3.5 Bard
1) Don't get eaten by your opponent.
2) Sing a cheerful song so that your mates get +1 att/damage.
3) Cast Grease and then crack jokes about you opponents inability to stand up.
4) Join the fight if any opponents are standing up and flank the opponents so that your front line gets more hits in.
5) Help your cleric heal.
6) Bluff and Intimidate your opponents just for fun.Fixed for you ;).
I'll post up an arcane duellist build when I get the time for more than just brief posts :)
Bronwyn, have you given up on the Battle Herald? I thought your character was a perfect fit for that prestige class.
Yeah, Lukan, sadly I did. I intended to go Bard 1/Cavalier 5/Battle Herald X, but seeing as we got another Cavalier and lost our two casters, it probably would be too redundant for the party. This way I can buff, have some miscellaneous utility and dish out some damage as well. Don't think I will buff quite as well as I would with the prestige class (Tactician as Move Action, Inspire Damage Reduction, heal with commands, etc), though.
Still, I'll probably keep that line (buffing spells and fighting in the frontlines) instead of the vanilla bard route (keep throwing save-or-suck until the enemy fails a save).
You shouldn't let my class throw off your plans. I'm making a one trick pony (thank you thank you, I'll be here all week), my whole stick is charge them over and over again. I don't think your concept would overlap with mine at all.
Yeah, Lukan, sadly I did. I intended to go Bard 1/Cavalier 5/Battle Herald X, but seeing as we got another Cavalier and lost our two casters, it probably would be too redundant for the party. This way I can buff, have some miscellaneous utility and dish out some damage as well. Don't think I will buff quite as well as I would with the prestige class (Tactician as Move Action, Inspire Damage Reduction, heal with commands, etc), though.
Still, I'll probably keep that line (buffing spells and fighting in the frontlines) instead of the vanilla bard route (keep throwing save-or-suck until the enemy fails a save).
You know you can have inspire courage and inspiring command up at the same time with the lingering performance feat? I thought that was neat.
Yeah, Lukan, sadly I did. I intended to go Bard 1/Cavalier 5/Battle Herald X, but seeing as we got another Cavalier and lost our two casters, it probably would be too redundant for the party. This way I can buff, have some miscellaneous utility and dish out some damage as well. Don't think I will buff quite as well as I would with the prestige class (Tactician as Move Action, Inspire Damage Reduction, heal with commands, etc), though.
Still, I'll probably keep that line (buffing spells and fighting in the frontlines) instead of the vanilla bard route (keep throwing save-or-suck until the enemy fails a save).
Bron - take whichever classes you want. Unless things change dramatically, most of this AP is outdoors, so 2 cavaliers would not be a bad thing. I am probably going to be straight sorcerer, so I can cover a lot of magic. Also, if we buy me scrolls, I can read/use any arcane scroll which greatly expands my powers once we get there. Three front line fighters would not be bad with me for magic, Cambyl for healing/divine and Ganit providing backstabs and artillery.
DM Aron - I can't find any info that directly says how long poison stays on a weapon before going inert. What is your stand on that issue?
All - Does anyone know about how long poison stays lethal on a weapon?
In game rules don't really clarify. Most real world examples don't go into detail either. Still researching those for my own interest but it appears that poison works best on piercing weapons because the wound doesn't initially bleed as much and therefore more poison gets injected. For bladed/slashing weapons the most effective substance to use appears to be feces. Most bullets are actually poisonous already due to being made of lead, tungsten or depleted uranium, but that appears to be a secondary consideration to the fact that you've just been shot.
From what I've read of poisons in pathfinder, the implication is that you have to apply it directly before using it. If I were GMing I'd probably say you could prep an arrow and keep it nocked or your blade if you kept it unsheathed while sneaking around. As soon as it got put away the poison could rub off or something.
The danger is supposed to be to you while carrying around a poisoned weapon, unless you're trained of course.
But, that's just me.
I can't imagine a gunshot victim's first thought being: "OMG! I've been exposed to lead poisoning!" haha.
That was my guess too, Cambyl .
An FYI for Carina and Jameson - Early in the game I asked the DM if he would allow a homebrew skill use for survival. Basically you roll a survival check against an animal's natural poison DC to "harvest" a dose of it for personal use (things like spiders, scorpions, centipedes, etc...). Depending on how much you beat or fail the DC by, you can gain additional doses or expose yourself to it. So far I've only used it once with a giant trapdoor spider we killed. If this seems unfair I would be okay with removing the doses from my equipment and pretending it never happened.
As a good character, I would have a problem with poison. However, if it is being used to add damage to a monster you are going to kill anyway, I would not have as much difficulty with that. If someone is Lawful Good, then I think that poison would be a big no no. As a Chaotic Good character, I have less of a problem with it as I am not concerned with the lawfulness of poison, just its good/evil usage.
In other words, on a weapon in preparation for a battle against evil, Carina is not going to condone poison, but is also not going to fight it. If you start poisoning people's food and drink, then that might be a different thing.
Jameson is Lawful Good and moderately intelligent, he'd probably recognize you as using poison. However, unless poison is strictly outlawed (and we're in lawless lands) and being used for evil purposes (debatable here), it's a bit of a grey area. As a player I have no problems with it. As a character I imagine James would justify it as "Sneaky woods craft, happens in nature all the time".
James isn't a Paladin so he has no higher code to follow other than his own moral compass, though my oath as a Cavalier of the Sword requires me to maintain my LG alignment. Again, in this case I think James isn't going to see a problem if he even notices what's going on. As for the actual method by which you are acquiring the poison I of course have no issues with it, and in fact rule the same rule in my own campaigns, though using Craft (Poison) checks.
Can anyone remember about that leather armor? Is it studded?
Seeing as we're facing a big battle soon, we'd do well to decide who wears it. Any takers?
Ganit is Lawful Neutral which allows him to skirt some (most) morality issues but that’s not to say he doesn’t have ethics. He doesn’t value honor in the sense that a knight or paladin would, nor does he see that a “fair” fight is something that’s obtainable outside of children’s stories or propaganda. Poison is just another tool that gives him an edge over his opponent.
Bron – I’ve copied all of the posts dealing with loot and pasted them in my profile under the spoiler “Things to Sell”. There’s a set of mwk studded leather, a +1 hide and 2 sets of standard leather.
I actually had forgotten what a "Hide" armor was. Sadly I think it should be unusable by anyone on the group (I can't wear medium armor, it offers to many penalties for Ganit), and will probably be sold. Unless Cambyl or Jameson want it, I guess. It's a +1 AC gain for Cambyl, at the cost of 10 ft of movement. For Jameson it would lessen his armor penalty by 2.
So what you guys think about it?
I ignore armor penalty to ride while mounted on Donal. I'm shooting for Full Plate since movement penalties don't matter while mounted and Donal gets stronger as I level. I'm all for selling it.
I have no problems selling it. I'll be doing my best to avoid any/all armor penalties so it's no good to me personally. I may actually take that mwk studded if everyones okay with that.
You go girl. I'll need each bit of AC that I can get, so I'll probably wait for some other armor.
Ah that takes me back to 1997. I may just have to pop in my Willennium cassette tape and git jiggy for a while.
Bron – I’ve copied all of the posts dealing with loot and pasted them in my profile under the spoiler “Things to Sell”. There’s a set of mwk studded leather, a +1 hide and 2 sets of standard leather.
Ohhh it was Hide, forgot that. Well yes you're correct it's +1 and from a creature native to these lands.
Well I don't think a poison lasts per rounds and most likely would last for minutes due to the poison slipping off, being washed off, degrading and etc. Arrows and Darts it could be longer as you won't be waving them around so much.
On the alignment thing of poison, the lands are indeed lawless, but you will be coming up with the alignment of the country.
I don't see why poison is considered unlawful or evil. It's just a tool, the user uses it for good or evil.
But then I've also been confused as to why a wizard can drink his enemy's blood to learn spells and that's fine, but a witch can't cook and eat evil people for awesome buffs without being evil.
I don't see why poison is considered unlawful or evil. It's just a tool, the user uses it for good or evil.
That sounds pretty Chaotic Good to me :)
I don't see why poison is considered unlawful or evil. It's just a tool, the user uses it for good or evil.
But then I've also been confused as to why a wizard can drink his enemy's blood to learn spells and that's fine, but a witch can't cook and eat evil people for awesome buffs without being evil.
I see your point and you make me think of the Witcher, which is a interesting game as you have no good or evil options. Though I slaughtered a town, but that was to protect the sexy witch who sold poisons that some people used to take their own lives and things, she had no dealing with what they were to use them for.
Not to mention the trouble came from the town's own evil, nothing to do with her so she was innocent, killed the beast and cut up the bastards who decided to ignore what I just did for them.
Eitherway, in this world it's the tool of assassins I believe.
Poison is inherently agressive, cruel and evil. What other use are you going to have for a poison other than causing pain and suffering? I don't think Lukan would have really known what Ganit was doing with the spider or has seen him apply the poison yet, so it hasn't been an issue. It makes me laugh when I think of how Ganit wanted to save that bandit's life so bad, but is considering using poison against them. Although, I can understand its usefuleness within the confines of DnD rules.
Hopefully someone can shine some light on how poison would be used for good? Even using poison on an evil creature would be considered evil, because ultimately it would cause undue pain and suffering - then again, with DnD mechanics this is a moot point, because in the end, it causes 'damage' that in the end kills them faster.
Well there are plenty or real-world cultures where the hunter uses animal poisons as hunting tools (but then the real-world doesn't have Good, Law, and Evil as universal forces).
I think the poison-as-evil comes more of a "poison in the king's wine" kind of thing. I believe everyone agrees that killing a person by poisoning him/her is an evil act, and I'm pretty sure it would be considered a chaotic act as well (after all, killing is prety much against any law, and only condoned on orders of execution or during wars - in which the enemy is clearly someone who doesn't abide by the sames rules as your side). Such instance is clearly a cold-blooded, planeed assassination, and I believe most modern law differentiates it from a "spur-of-the-moment" thing.
Also, most poisons generate excruciating, longstanding pain instead of "a sword at-your-face" death.
I ammend my statement and will concede that some poisons may cause instantaneous death and would probably be 'gooder' then a mundane sword or arrow attack, but most poisons do not fall in this category. In the end it is biological/chemical warfare at a very small scale. Then again, with my argument most spells would be 'evil' so for the sake of DnD I'd say poison is not evil ;)
Aha! The morality issues regarding poison use and alignment in D&D. Happy to have started the fire ;)
To simplify things, I think we should just all switch to Chaotic Evil, then we can do whatever we want, and have a great country, slaves, executions for entertainment value, and most importantly, me in charge with an iron fist. -- Oh, first person to disagree gets a couple of meteor swarms fired at them.
Crap just lost a good chance to use the "Sneak, sneak silently across the woods" Inspire Competence bardic performance... Come on, third level!
Pathfinder, mostly as a descendant of DnD, is like video games, we're pretty much expecting to kill the bad guys. How you kill them... who cares. In another game I'm in, I'm one of three lawful good characters... and we never agree on anything :). I don't think my guy would have any problem with poisons, as long as it was used on evil creatures... but that's all a roleplaying thing.
Which, I suppose is the case with poison in general. Most poisons I've seen in Pathfinder don't seem to be worth the hassle... although I did recently almost kill one of my PCs with wyvern poison... that stuff is nasty.