First, I'd first figure out the DC based on your level and skill rank then I'd allow you to roll.
I'd then determine the DC based on how "hard" it would be for you to succeed. Based on your score of 10 (which represents around 3 to 7 ranks in the skill assuming class skill and potentially high stat bonus):
If the kobolds are easily scared, DC of 15 in a world where you're likely to succeed.
If the kobolds are a disorganized enough that it would take a little more effort to get their attention and scare them off, then the DC would be 20.
If the kobolds are so disorganized that it's almost impossible to get their ADD raddled attentions on you to scare them, I'd say 25,
If the above makes it nearly impossible, but doable by luck, DC 30.
I of course wouldn't shift the goalpost on other characters, and if anyone else with more points in the skill decide to chime in, the DC remains the same.
Rules don't come close to allowing this.
You want to start a grapple (standard action), and in that one grapple check turn it into a pin (needs a second grapple check), and then also get a free intimidate check (standard action) that applies to everyone within hearing distance (intimidate normally affects one foe; with a 2 feat chain, you can affect everyone within 30 feet as a full-round action) to apply the panicked condition (normally intimidate applies shaken, 2 steps below panicked, and is not stackable with other fear affects or itself).
And you want to do all of this with a single attack of opportunity.
So, no. The rules do not even begin to allow this. If your DM wants to let you do it, then fine, but he is granting you significantly more power than you should have, as you are effectively ending the entire encounter with an AoO, and that is massive. Lets say these are all base kobolds (CR 1/4 100 XP). And lets say there are 12 of them (1200 XP = CR 4). So that's a CR 4 encounter which you just solved on your own with a single AoO and no resource expenditure.
Is it cool? Yeah, sure. But so is you exploding in a burst of bright light, which swirls through everything in a 10 mile radius purging all evil in a brilliant display of deific prowess. Rule of cool only goes so far.
Oh, I didn't notice the grabbing part.
Then I'd also add a grapple combat maneuver, followed by (may be, depends on whether it actually comes to mind) a normal strength check to pick them up and put them close to your face.
The Kobold (if you don't have improved grapple) gets a free AoO depending on whether he was paying attention or not.
Everything else stays the same.
I allow my players to do cinematic things like this with some criteria:
1) The encounter is not a key encounter; e.g. a random encounter.
2) It's something the character is reasonably good at.
3) It falls in line with the Rule of Cool.
4) Other players in the group are pushing for it (Optional, but a huge help)
5) We are using action points, and an action point must be used before initiating the action.
6) The player in question describes the action(s) in detail.
This is actually a function of action points that I added to my games to encourage role play, by "forcing" players to play out the scenario in their mind and to be more creative. We just call it a "cinematic." My players like it, and I don't feel like it's breaking the game.
Of course, I can just drop rocks on everything as the DM, so I guess I really don't care a whole lot if it's breaking anything. XD
But depends on how it goes. Any one else have an oppinion on this?
I do. I would never allow it.
You want too much for nothing.
Cough up a couple feats, and I would really start to consider this. Since no actual feats exist to do this, we'd have to create some. As Bascaria so deftly pointed out, you want to all of the following on an attack of opportunity, without even having to use any of your actions:
initiate a grapple,
confirm a pin,
use Intimidate to demoralize ...
... but cause someone to be panicked rather than merely shaken ...
... and do it to everyone who can hear you nearby, without having to have the Dazzling Display feat.
Is this sounding broken to you yet? It should.
Would you like your suggestion as much if your GM were to do multiple things at once to you AND your entire party because "it's cool"? That's why cool is not defined in the rules.
Let's try this on for size:
A member of your party provokes an attack of opportunity, for whatever reason. The bad guy that gets to take the AoO, the GM has decided, has some "cool" ability that lets it cast a standard action spell as an attack of opportunity! It casts flesh to stone and turns your ally into a statue. Now, the GM says, because your friend just got shockingly turned into stone at the blink of an eye, all the rest of you must make a DC 22 Will save or be panicked and flee in terror (unless immune to fear). Because that's cool, to the GM.
Um ... technically doable, because the GM has the fiat of "rule zero". Doesn't follow the rules at ALL. Is not that "cool" from the players' perspective. I don't think many parties would be happy about this.
You seeing where I am going with this? :)
I am with the no's on this one. Too much for too little.
As outlined, you need two standard actions to pull this off, plus two feats to make the check AoO. That's almost certainly an example of what happens when you use a Hero Point then. Of course, you get 1 of those per level.
As a GM, I would allow the whole thing to stand as description of a Very High Intimidate Check Result.
The "grabbing" of the goblin itself would have no mechanical benefit unless you used the grapple rules (easy enough vs. goblin).
The easiest way to handle "Rule of Cool" issues like this is to divorce the description from the mechanics. I would roll intimidate, and if the roll was really good, I would ask my GM for leeway in the description with the caveat that I wasn't trying to pull anything off mechanically.
Sadly, I don't think there's a mechanic for intimidating a group of people with a single action. I think there should be, and it definitely shouldn't require a feat. I would rule that each additional target of demoralize raises the DC by 2 for all targets. If someone really wants to pin another feat on this, let it waive that penalty.
Interesting problem you've presented. It goes to the heart of GM-style I think — some GMs feel that the highly codified rules must exactly model the events in the game. There's no need to adhere so slavishly in my opinion, as long as the mechanics are internally consistent, GMs should permit their players to describe the events as flavorfully as desired (within reason).
I allow my players to do cinematic things like this with some criteria:
1) The encounter is not a key encounter; e.g. a random encounter.
2) It's something the character is reasonably good at.
3) It falls in line with the Rule of Cool.
4) Other players in the group are pushing for it (Optional, but a huge help)
5) We are using action points, and an action point must be used before initiating the action.
6) The player in question describes the action(s) in detail.This is actually a function of action points that I added to my games to encourage role play, by "forcing" players to play out the scenario in their mind and to be more creative. We just call it a "cinematic." My players like it, and I don't feel like it's breaking the game.
Of course, I can just drop rocks on everything as the DM, so I guess I really don't care a whole lot if it's breaking anything. XD
This actually makes me want to use action points.
All really good points. Like I mentioned, rules wise it wouldn't fly, but at the same times it's something cool.
Action points is one of those nifty things that can be really helpful, both for a player and a GM (mostly for those times where the big bad needs to pull off the "I'm EVIL"). I'm just saying.
The other reason is that I'm thinking about pulling this sort of stunt when I do my turn as a GM. Especially at low levels and with the creatures in question, I want to give the players a chance to shine outside the box, as well give some good RP XP.
Also, I'm thinking about working on a Cinematic Rule. Basically, it's where the person in question has to succeed on several skill rolls based on what the person in questions gives a s description, with a modifier being added if it's a) really imaginative, b) really cool, or c) rest of the party thinks it's cool and it won't have a lasting game affect.
But depends on how it goes. Any one else have an oppinion on this?
Our cinematic events typically have lots of skill rolls included, but I make the DCs easier because the increased volume of rolls actually seems to decrease chances of success for the action involved. Typically, it's not a big deal anyway, because the players try to include skills they have at least a few ranks in the the description of their cinematic. They play to their strengths.
This rule is good for giving the players a heroic quality, so that when they try something like talking smack to a major plot villain, they don't fall flat on their face and look like total idiots. (EDIT: I guess this sort of contradicts rule number 1 in my list up above, but generally, this falls under several other rules so it slides; they never get to wail on big baddies with these things for just more damage or anything.) It never seems to fail with our group, either. "I've got a wicked awesome idea! I do [insert cool action]!" [die roll] "#%$@! I rolled a 2!"
Every. Time. Hence our cinematic rule.
I like Lincoln's idea too, of allowing things like this, but without the added mechanical benefit of actually grappling the kobold. I think the way I'd handle it in that case would be to say just roll the intimidate check, and where I'd normally give a +2 for doing some descriptive action, I'd just forego increasing the DC. The little buggers seem like they're already scared of something else, so you'd probably have to beat the intimidate check of whatever they were running from before.
EDIT: I'd like to add to my list of rules above that the actions described actually has to have a cinematic quality to it, such that you can picture in your mind how it would play out in a movie. Most groups probably are like that with everyday gaming, but we're all from a younger generation, and this is my way of dragging my friends into the immersion with me. XD
|
I'd allow it with hefty roll requirements and an attack or two against you while you attempt it (an AoO when you grab, an attack while it squirms to escape)
I am a fan of rule of cool. If someone has an idea and ts prettycinematic we go with the flow. Our DM just decides what e wants the check to be and lets it be attempted (unless it is something really stupid) - the condition is it has to be relevant to your character.
For example I was playing a Ninja the other day, when attacking I rolled a 1 on my second attack, as a result the weapon slipped out of my hand and landed about 10ft away (rolling 1s have interesting consequences in our games).
The mob I was by was killed by another player, our Cleric was engaged with a mob about 20ft away (so about 10ft beyond my fallen weapon).
So, on my turn I suggest I am going to runtowards the mob and on the way kick up my dropped weapon and catch it in my hand. I have high Acrobatics so it seemed a legit idea which would look cool so it was allowed. Typically I rolled poop and kicked the sword further across the room.
Rule of Cool is far more important than RAW, too many people get bogged down by the mechanics. Just make sure the difficulty is set appropriately and that there are suitable consequences
Also, Dumb Paladin, thank you for your counter point. It brings up a good situation and highlights the flipside of the Rule of Cool.
That's really all I'm trying to point out. I'm willing to work with a player who wants to ask for a little something extra once in a while, and who invokes Rule of Cool. But we can't go abusing it. ;)
|
As a GM, it would work. However, when my players haul out the idea of doing something awesome and flashy, I reserve the right to determine the mechanics of how they react. In your case, the kobolds would quit running at *you*, but they might swarm around you and attack the party, or they might go charging off to another part of the city to burn it, etc etc. You still get your "DID YOU SEE THAT?!" chance, and the encounter remains. As long as the plot doesn't require you to deal with a particular person at a specified time and place, I'll let you shake it up.