You learned to use your deity’s favored weapon as part of
your martial arts form.
Prerequisites: Channel energy class feature, flurry of
blows class feature, Weapon Focus with your deity’s favored
melee weapon.
Benefit: You can use your deity’s favored weapon as if it
were a monk weapon.
Godless clerics can't have nice things. :(
From a quick glance, monks got a lot more powerful now. For example, the Marid style lets them add mWis to Elemental Fist damage, as well as Entangle creatures they hit with Elemental Fist.
Godless clerics can't have nice things. :(
Having a deity at your back should probably come with some extra power. Although without on you don't lose your powers if you piss him/her off.
There's an odd feat in here that requires the Inquisitor channel energy class feature.
Inquisitors don't get channel energy.
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Are there any new ki-power/Qinggong ki-powers for monks?
And I know I sound like a broken record, but...any Good-aligned/themed ones among those?
No new qinggong powers, or new general ki powers. No good-aligned monk stuff too, sorry.
Non-divine classes that get some good-aligned stuff: Uh...rogue. With Sanctified Rogue. Which is kinda lame, sorry.
Damn... Thanks again though.
I really have to think that the parellel development that HAD to be going on with UM and UC would have precluded Paizo knowing how popular the Quinggong thing would be. I know you've been hoping for new Quinggong stuff, but I suspected that wasn't going to be the case, and I've been proven right, at least generally speaking.
I'm not a monk guy, but they really, REALLY got some cool feats. I think. It's tough, because, I'm not a monk guy. I could spend probably a day and a half just reading the Feats in this book. I'm not one of these number-crunching dudes who determine if the system's "broken" now, either, but I really like what I'm seeing in this book. I think it might be a pretty darned good book.
Yeah, to be fair to Paizo I was piling on a lot of wishes and wants onto this book. I'm still looking forward to seeing what they did get. Options for barehanded monks, martial arts, stuff like that.
I'll just keep pestering Paizo for a Book of Good after UC. :)
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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Do the vehicle combat rules seem fun or complicated on first glance? Is there much there for airship combat?
They're simpler than they were in my original turnover, I can tell you that much! :)
All vehicles use the same basic principles for vehicular combat, which is included in the chapter and has overlap with the siege engines chapter, but there are unique things for land, sea, and air vehicles.
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Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 4, Legendary Games
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I'm really hoping we get to see it somewhere else. It was the barbarian feature I was most eager to see and use.!Just remembered!
Oh please please please tell me the Celestial Totem chain for Barbarians made it in!
Alas, no.
solitary tear
The thing I most missed in the whole book was actually in the barbarian section, which was a series of rage powers that built off of powerful blow (so 1/rage) that let barbarians tear off a target's limbs and use them as weapons (with special bonuses vs. the creature whose limb it was) or rip someone's head off. I thought they were great fun and perfectly thematic for high-level barbarian abilities... but perhaps they skirted too close to hit location rules that PF mostly tries to avoid.
Still, at least body bludgeon stayed in, so you could at least PICK UP your enemy and use them as a weapon! All in all, I was very happy with the barb section (and most everything I wrote for UC, really).
Thanks big time for writing it at the very least. :)
My pleasure. Hope it shows up at some point.
Speaking of hit locations, doesn't the book have called shot rules? How do those work?
Yeah, to be fair to Paizo I was piling on a lot of wishes and wants onto this book. I'm still looking forward to seeing what they did get. Options for barehanded monks, martial arts, stuff like that.I'll just keep pestering Paizo for a Book of Good after UC. :)
If you're interested in a martial artist who isn't a Monk, they have an Unarmed Fighter archtype. See below:
"Not all fighters need weapons to make their mark on
the world. The unarmed fighter picks up a weapon only
rarely, and when he does, he prefers the weapons of the
monk. There are even those who mistake them for monks,
but these fighters enter the fight without ki, and instead
have a tough perseverance that few can rival." (page 48)
Loses heavy / medium armor and shields. Gains proficiency with all Monk weapons (including exotic ones). Has all kinds of nifty unarmed combat stuff including improved unarmed combat and a martial arts style feat at first level. Goes on from there.
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Someone needs to tell the Paizo staff that "+3 to +5 to all saving throws" does not equal "1 skill point." Seriously, what the crap, Empyreal Knight? >_<
Does he trade any other abilities for something weaker?
What about the Charlatan? Is it similiar to the 2nd edition one?
How about the chameleon? Only a stealthed based assassin or is he actually fun like the 3.5 version?
Lastly, did the Holy Gun paladins get some love?
Someone needs to tell the Paizo staff that "+3 to +5 to all saving throws" does not equal "1 skill point." Seriously, what the crap, Empyreal Knight? >_<
Is that one skill point or one per level?
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Someone needs to tell the Paizo staff that "+3 to +5 to all saving throws" does not equal "1 skill point." Seriously, what the crap, Empyreal Knight? >_<Does he trade any other abilities for something weaker?
From my glance-over, everything else is more or less balanced as far as tradeoffs go. They just give up divine grace for the ability to speak a single language. It's ridiculous. =/
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It's 1 skill point. Empyreal Knights give up divine grace for the ability to speak and read Celestial.Someone needs to tell the Paizo staff that "+3 to +5 to all saving throws" does not equal "1 skill point." Seriously, what the crap, Empyreal Knight? >_<Is that one skill point or one per level?
Archetype abilities aren't always directly balanced by the ability they replace. That's why you have to take the whole archetype instead of a cherry picking abilities.
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Archetype abilities aren't always directly balanced by the ability they replace. That's why you have to take the whole archetype instead of a cherry picking abilities.It's 1 skill point. Empyreal Knights give up divine grace for the ability to speak and read Celestial.Someone needs to tell the Paizo staff that "+3 to +5 to all saving throws" does not equal "1 skill point." Seriously, what the crap, Empyreal Knight? >_<Is that one skill point or one per level?
Yes, I get that. The rest of the archetype is more or less balanced on what it trades off and gets in return. Where it fails is that it asks the paladin to give up a class ability that is fairly crucial to their low-level survival in exchange for something they could have taken anyway by spending 1 skill point. It's nonsensical, and it makes the whole archetype much less appealing.
Archetype abilities aren't always directly balanced by the ability they replace. That's why you have to take the whole archetype instead of a cherry picking abilities.
That is why I asked if he gets anything worth it down the road. Apparently not.
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Not all archetypes are equal. Some are pretty good at what they are supposed to do (like the infiltrator archetype), but are weaker than the base class in most circumstances.
I don't have the book yet, but that was the way it worked in the APG and UM.
By the way, how are the new Inquisitor archetypes?
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That is why I asked if he gets anything worth it down the road. Apparently not.
Archetype abilities aren't always directly balanced by the ability they replace. That's why you have to take the whole archetype instead of a cherry picking abilities.
You give up all of your mercies for some weak energy resistances, eventual immunity to petrification, permanent tongues at 15th level, and an 18th level ability to generate a magic circle against evil for a round per level that can be broken up. You give up lay on hands and channel energy for the ability to summon a celestial monster a number of times a day equal to your Charisma modifier, but can only have one at a time; the level of the summon monster ability goes up over time. Your mount gets the celestial template at 8th level instead of 11th. And at 20th level, instead of holy champion, you become an outsider with wings.
I would say the replacement abilities are mostly weaker, with your mount getting its upgrade 3 levels sooner being a very slight bump back in the right direction. But then giving up divine grace for something that's worth 1 skill point... It's not just a tilt in the wrong direction, it's a horrible landslide. It's not as bad as the geisha was, but it still takes a concept that I was personally very interested in and makes it into an archetype that I'll actively warn my players away from. =/
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Not all archetypes are equal. Some are pretty good at what they are supposed to do (like the infiltrator archetype), but are weaker than the base class in most circumstances.
I don't have the book yet, but that was the way it worked in the APG and UM.By the way, how are the new Inquisitor archetypes?
Which is a terrible way to write an archetype. I'm not asking that they be stronger than a base class (which would be bad in a different way), just that they be equally good in order to make them mechanically viable.
Anyway, the inquisitor archetypes are sadly lackluster. There's one that thinks magic items are evil, one that thinks wizards are evil, and one that hunts witches. They're all pretty clearly intended to be used primarily by NPCs, just because a given PC probably won't see enough of any one thing their archetype gives them to matter over the course of a campaign, except in very specific circumstances.
With just your description I can't really see the use in this archtype. Hopefully you missed something in the details. Or at least I hope nothing else gets thrown in the "this archtype doesn't help define any concept" bin.
Edit: does the witch/wizard hunter stack?
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Edit: does the witch/wizard hunter stack?
Well, they replace out the same stuff, so you can't take both of them. The wizard hunter gives you bonuses against a specific wizard school, and eventually you learn to defend yourself against more schools. The witch hunter gives you bonuses against hexes. They both have abilities that generically work against arcane magic, so they're good against any arcane caster. They're just not particularly exciting.
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My thought on the Empyreal Champion is it's an archetype that dumps many of the charisma related abilities (other than smite) of the class and gets a set of other abilities that are less tied to charisma.
Seems to me like a less MAD Paladin. If you have a 16+ charisma, you do give up a lot but if you have a low charisma it's worth the benefits you get. That's just my 30 second scan.
Well, they replace out the same stuff, so you can't take both of them. The wizard hunter gives you bonuses against a specific wizard school, and eventually you learn to defend yourself against more schools. The witch hunter gives you bonuses against hexes. They both have abilities that generically work against arcane magic, so they're good against any arcane caster. They're just not particularly exciting.
The wizard one seems pretty useful actually, as far as I know only two classes can use hexes so that one seems waay too situational.
Nah, man. Screw casters. I wanna hunt wizards as something other than a full-caster. Revenge for being made to feel inadequate so many times in the past? Probably.
:P
Edit: While I'm here...
Is the Dragoon the historical type (mounted infantry, usually with guns) or the Final Fantasy type (Jumping spear user, usually heavily armored)
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Is the Dragoon the historical type (mounted infantry, usually with guns) or the Final Fantasy type (Jumping spear user, usually heavily armored)
It's a combination of the two. The picture is very clearly the latter, and the class is pretty strongly weighted toward "heavily armored spear user", but they're also almost a cavalier hybrid because they get a banner ability and mounted combat stuff. It's basically like a middle ground between the real-world dragoon and the one more gamers are familiar with, the Final Fantasy one.
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Well, they replace out the same stuff, so you can't take both of them. The wizard hunter gives you bonuses against a specific wizard school, and eventually you learn to defend yourself against more schools. The witch hunter gives you bonuses against hexes.
Edit: does the witch/wizard hunter stack?
Called it!
By the way, congrats to new contributors. Man, do I have to try that Superstar thing next time. Actually had a magic item handy this time, but some of the critique process looked...intimidating.
And now I should probably hop off this thread. So many spoilers...
Oh, old style Cleave is back, btw.Is it an alternate cleave feat or an archetype ability?A feat that extends the cleave Tree. It was already useful (just in a different way). The new old Great Cleave now requires 5 prereq feats.
One more full-post...
You learned to use your deity’s favored weapon as part of
your martial arts form.
Prerequisites: Channel energy class feature, flurry of
blows class feature, Weapon Focus with your deity’s favored
melee weapon.
Benefit: You can use your deity’s favored weapon as if it
were a monk weapon.
That's a really attractive feat to me. Now I can play a monk/paladin of Sarenrae like I always wanted to.
It's a combination of the two. The picture is very clearly the latter, and the class is pretty strongly weighted toward "heavily armored spear user", but they're also almost a cavalier hybrid because they get a banner ability and mounted combat stuff. It's basically like a middle ground between the real-world dragoon and the one more gamers are familiar with, the Final Fantasy one.
Is the Dragoon the historical type (mounted infantry, usually with guns) or the Final Fantasy type (Jumping spear user, usually heavily armored)
Hahahaha. Didn't expect THAT.
If it is not too much to ask, could someone provide a little more information on the Unarmed Fighter archetype (e.g., what abilities he gets and what abilities he loses) and on the monk martial arts styles (names and what they focus on)?
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If it is not too much to ask, could someone provide a little more information on the Unarmed Fighter archetype (e.g., what abilities he gets and what abilities he loses) and on the monk martial arts styles (names and what they focus on)?
Unarmed Fighter gives up his 1st level bonus feat for an unarmed style. Basically, he gets Improved Unarmed Strike *and* a martial arts style feat, so he gives up one feat he could use for anything for two feats that are already mostly picked out. He gives up bravery for an ability called harsh training, which gives him a scaling saving throw bonus against fatigue, exhaustion, staggered, and temporary ability score penalties. They replace armor training 1 with DR/- equal to half their fighter level that only applies to nonlethal damage or damage they take while grappling. Their weapon training only applies on monk weapons and natural weapons. Armor training 2 goes away for some grappling abilities, and armor training 3 gets replaced by an ability that lets you trip someone if you succeed on a drag. They have an ability that lets them trip someone then do a dirty trick against them, but I think it's miswritten, since it replaces an ability that a previous ability already replaces (weapon training 2).
At mid-to-high levels, unarmed fighters can do things like "if you confirm a crit, do a dirty trick to blind that opponent as a swift action" and "if you punch a pinned or flat-footed creature, you can do a dirty trick or trip as a swift action." Their big deal really seems to be "add a combat maneuver to another one, or add a combat maneuver to a punch or grapple." Their top ability is immunity to nonlethal damage, and to fatigue, exhaustion, and the staggered condition; this replaces weapon master.
The martial styles are mostly named for animals or elemental outsiders. Each styke is a three feat chain, and you can only use one style at a time, switching between them as a swift action:
*Boar Style: RIP AND TEAR. Gives you piercing and bleed with unarmed strikes.
*Crane Style: Graceful and delicate. Reduces penalties for fighting defensively and lets you deflect incoming attacks.
*Djinni Style: Bonus electricity Elemental Fist attacks, and grants AC while you have EF uses left. Eventually gives electricity resistance and deafens enemies with thunder.
*Dragon Style: Bonuses to save against stuff dragons are resistant or immune to, and lets you charge through difficult terrain or allied squares.
*Earth Child Style: Designed for gnomes and dwarves. Improves the defensive training racial ability and lets you knock down bigger opponents.
*Efreeti Style: Same as Djinni style, but with fire. Lets you throw around cones of fire.
*Janni Style: Whirling fighting style that reduces charge penalties and enemies' flank bonuses.
*Kirin Style: You make Knowledge checks against enemies to gain bonuses against them, like a martial arts version of the archivist archetype.
*Mantis Style: Extra stunning fists, and worse penalties from stunning fist.
*Marid Style: Same as Djinni style, but with cold. You can entangle enemies in ice.
*Monkey Style: Add your Wisdom bonus to Acrobatics and Climb, and you don't take penalties while fighting prone.
*Panther Style: Punishes enemies for attacking you by attacking them back.
*Shaitan Style: Same as Djinni style, but with acid. You can knock people down by stomping.
*Snake Style: Replace your AC with a Sense Motive check once a round. You can eventually make attacks of opportunity against people who missed you.
*Snapping Turtle Style: You get a shield bonus to AC if you keep a hand free, and people take penalties to confirm crits against you.
*Tiger Style: You can do slashing and bleed with your unarmed attacks, and you get bonuses to your CMD against bull rush, overrun, and trip. You can apply the penalty from Power Attack to your AC instead of your attack rolls.
Talk about going above and beyond! Thank you hida_jiremi.
All I can say about the martial arts styles is holy crap! It would seem monks are about to get much more interesting indeed, especially when one considers the Master of Many Styles archetype. Dragon, Snapping Turtle and Tiger seem particularly tasty, at least to me anyway. :-)
All in all, I cannot wait for the PDF to become available on the 4th of August.
It's basically like a middle ground between the real-world dragoon and the one more gamers are familiar with, the Final Fantasy one.
I am a gamer, but I have no idea what a Final Fantasy dragoon is supposed to be, or why it would even be called a dragoon.
It's basically like a middle ground between the real-world dragoon and the one more gamers are familiar with, the Final Fantasy one.I am a gamer, but I have no idea what a Final Fantasy dragoon is supposed to be, or why it would even be called a dragoon.
Heavily armored guy with a spear. Jumps way too high, frequently.
And because Japan gets English wrong sometimes, just like English speakers get other foreign phrases wrong sometimes.
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Heavily armored guy with a spear. Jumps way too high, frequently.
And because Japan gets English wrong sometimes, just like English speakers get other foreign phrases wrong sometimes.
My understanding is that this is actually an English-translation mistake. The class is originally a "Dragon Knight" (ryukishi), and the American localization shortened it to "Dragoon" because some American Squaresoft employee had heard the word at some point and thought it was cool. This isn't a "Japanese people get words wrong sometimes" issue (though that does happen). It's an "Americans don't know archaic words in their own language very well" issue. XD
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Anything like heirloom weapon?
Anything like 3.5 spike chain? That asian weapon sounded pretty close.
There's a magus archetype called Soulforger that gives you an arcane bonded weapon.
The kusarigama and kyoketsu shoge are both reach weapons (and both are real-world inspirations for the spiked chain), but they're both just normal reach weapons as far as I can see in the text.