Nope, clearly not allowed in the normal rules. It's making exceptions like that which leads to things like HW getting broken. A 'houserule' for PFS shouldn't dictate changes to the core game (which appears to be what we have here).
You should tell Josh then. He's the one who made this "houserule".
I can see why (in PFS) this would be a problem, but not so in regular campaigns where longer term (more than four hours of a session) has to be considered.
Once again, you are posting in a PFS forum.
I only noticed after I posted precisely where the thread was located. I can see PFS having some issues with it that would make PFS players a lot more likely to notice the changes. It would be an interesting topic to see discussed in the more general sense as well.
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Once again, the change is made in a book that applies to all games, not just PFS. If it was just in PFS then thats fine.
Yes, but the people reading and posting in the PFS forums are likely more concerned specifically with how this impacts the PFS community. Outside of that, for the Pathfinder community at large individual GMs have much more freedom to use/abuse/ignore pretty much anything they want for their games.
In here, not so much.
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Outside of that, for the Pathfinder community at large individual GMs have much more freedom to use/abuse/ignore pretty much anything they want for their games.
Sure, though as players, it is important to have a consistent set of official core rules that we can all draw upon when considering the make-up of our characters etc. With respect to what homebrew solutions, additions, or subtractions are made by any particular GM, we have a core set of rules that are published as the basis on which we make our decisions.
What is being changed is reflected in those rules broadly as opposed to reflecting a needed change on the much narrower PFS field.
if this change was slated for the PFS guide that would be one thing, but it is over in AA, which opens it up to a wider debate than simply PFS threads.
The bow example was a good one; if there is room to hoserule some things in PFS contra to the actual RAW of the game, why not treat this Trait the same way?
I am also seeing this as a step towards the core game being dictated by PFS, as opposed to the other way around, which I am not fond of.
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if this change was slated for the PFS guide that would be one thing, but it is over in AA, which opens it up to a wider debate than simply PFS threads.
Yes and that wider debate is much more appropriate in a wider forum :)
At the end of the day, Heirloom Weapon was not errata'ed because of PFS, it was errata'ed because it was subjectively, grossly overpowered in the Core.
Yes and that wider debate is much more appropriate in a wider forum :)Then perhaps this thread is in the wrong place...this isn't a 'PFS change', this is a 'Game change'.
Considering that the OP asked about how this will affect PFS and I reminded you twice that this is a PFS forum, I can safely say you are in the wrong place, and wasting our time.
Director of Brand Strategy
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Our running out of the first printing of Adventurer's Armory and the need to update the pdf to match the current version of the book we're shipping to customers happened to coincide with the busiest two weeks of Pathfinder Society development each year.
As of now, since the pdf has been updated and we are no longer shipping older printings of the book, the new version of the trait stands and is the only legal version in Pathfinder Society Organized Play.
We have an update to both the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play and the Additional Resources list prior to GenCon, and clarification on how to handle retrofitting errata (including this trait) will appear in one or both of those documents. In the meantime, I ask that everyone debate the balance of the previous, now no-longer-legal version of the trait on other parts of the board and remain patient as we work to make the launch of Season 3 the best it can be!
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I am also seeing this as a step towards the core game being dictated by PFS, as opposed to the other way around, which I am not fond of.
Shifty, Paizo uses PFS as a large, reported playtest. When a rules element receives a great deal of consistent feedback that it is overused and overpowered, they are going to re-examine that rules element.
EDIT: Removed discussion about balance of the Trait, per Mark's post, but left portion addressing PFS play affecting rules errata.
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Considering that the OP asked about how this will affect PFS and I reminded you twice that this is a PFS forum, I can safely say you are in the wrong place, and wasting our time.
I really don't understand why you are being so rude.
As pointed out, THIS CHANGE IS GAME WIDE.
I am not sure why that is difficult for you, it is not a 'PFS change', it is a game change. If it was simply a houserule within PFS that would be different, but what is being discussed in this thread is a change to the AA, and therefore the core rules.
So this is NOT in fact a PFS discussion.
So stop wasting my time with sidetracking.
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And while the spell is legal, all spell durations end at the end of a scenario, even ones that create permanent things, so this would still not work.Well, that is such a massive change to the trait that I wonder what it will mean to all the players who have enchanted their old masterwork heirloom weapon? The easiest thing I can see is to simply let them subtract the masterwork cost from their current gold and keep adventuring, even though normally a regular weapon cannot be upgraded to masterwork.Ultimate Magic provided the solution.
Hmm.
I'm not sure this is true.
Spells that have a duration of 'permanent' do not work past the end of the scenario. Masterwork transformation has a duration of Instantaneous which means it makes a permanent but non-magical change to an item, a subtle but significant difference. I would want some clarification on it before I used it personally though.
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[And while the spell is legal, all spell durations end at the end of a scenario, even ones that create permanent things, so this would still not work.Hmm.
I'm not sure this is true.
Spells that have a duration of 'permanent' do not work past the end of the scenario. Masterwork transformation has a duration of Instantaneous which means it makes a permanent but non-magical change to an item, a subtle but significant difference. I would want some clarification on it before I used it personally though.
Yup. ALL spells end at the end of a scenario.
The oft-cited example of an Instantaneous spell is animate dead.
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I am not sure why that is difficult for you, it is not a 'PFS change', it is a game change. If it was simply a houserule within PFS that would be different, but what is being discussed in this thread is a change to the AA, and therefore the core rules.
I think you misunderstand. A PFS rule is not a "houserule", it is the basis that all rules will come from. Speaking of "houserules", if this is such an issue to your home game, bring it up with your GM.
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I think you misunderstand. A PFS rule is not a "houserule", it is the basis that all rules will come from. Speaking of "houserules", if this is such an issue to your home game, bring it up with your GM.You mean like the 'Bow' rule which has even been cited as against core rules?
I am not familar with the Bow rule. Either way, houserules are rules for homegames created by GMS, not game developers.
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Nim it is referred to in this thread, people applying Str changes as a bolt-on to existing bows as though they were 'magic upgrades' (ie your Str 10 bow later being made Str 12 or whatever) at a later date instead of at time of creation.
That is contra to Core RAW, and is a PFS 'houserule'.
Anyhow, there is now a broader thread going in the wider forums, where this thread should probably have been from the outset, as this is a game change, not a PFS change :)
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Director of Brand Strategy
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We're done here. If you want to debate the balance of the trait, either before or after the errata in the second printing, that should take place in the rules forum or in the Player Companion section of the boards.
As far as retconning characters to accomodate this rules change, I will provide rules for doing so as soon as possible, either in the PFS FAQ, the Additional Resources document, or the Guide to Pathfinder Society Organized Play.