I am gearing up to DM a Pathfinder game after not sitting the DM seat since 2nd edition. I like to plan everything out pretty thoroughly (OCD? maybe a little)...including lots of PC choices. As I have started mapping out my encounters, I had some questions about how encounters start. I apologize if this is specifically stated somewhere in the books.
Is there some kind of range for Perception? If the PCs are walking down a hall and the orcs are walking toward them in the other direction, when do I begin the Perception checks? How do you determine who sees who first (I understand that things like dark vision and how loud they all are might influence this). If no one is stealthing, do you just roll opposing Perception checks? Are there set limits to how far PCs and creatures can become aware things in the area?
So, are there set rules for determining who perceives who first in various circumstances? If not, how do other DMs work this?
If no one is making an effort to be hidden then the encounter just starts when they come within sight of eachother. I cant imagine a hall long enough to where you cant see someone at the other end, but you can use the perception distance penalty as a guideline (DC goes up by 1 per 10 feet). So if they are less then say a thousand feet away from eachother, and there is nothing blocking sight, then just start the encounter with all participants involved.
If no one is making an effort to be hidden then the encounter just starts when they come within sight of eachother. I cant imagine a hall long enough to where you cant see someone at the other end, but you can use the perception distance penalty as a guideline (DC goes up by 1 per 10 feet). So if they are less then say a thousand feet away from eachother, and there is nothing blocking sight, then just start the encounter with all participants involved.
Can different creatures see different distances? Is there a set limit to sight? What about hearing? I just gave the hallway as an example...could be anywhere. I was hoping there was some sort of general practice, that encompassed all the senses of average PCs and creatures, that would prevent me from having to calculate the distance penalties for each encounter.
The thing to remember about encounter distances is-when do you want the encounter to start? The limit of vision has little to do with it, since a light source can be seen for up to 5 times the distance the light actually illuminates, so outdoors the encounter distance at night can be as far as 300'. At that distance, figures (maybe general types and subtypes) can be seen, that's it. Once you get to the range that a light source will illuminate, encounters are pretty much a given. Daytime outdoors, you can see and distinguish creature type (humanoid, quadruped, etc.) from pretty far away, unless terrain features get in the way. Long story short, unless the enemy is setting an ambush ( or the PCs are), encounter distances are about one move action away.
I am gearing up to DM a Pathfinder game after not sitting the DM seat since 2nd edition. I like to plan everything out pretty thoroughly (OCD? maybe a little)...including lots of PC choices. As I have started mapping out my encounters, I had some questions about how encounters start. I apologize if this is specifically stated somewhere in the books.
In Chapater 13, Environments, the various terrain types are described in the Core Rulebook, buried in each is the maximum distance at which you can make a perception check (p. 425-433).
Unfortunately, there is no specific guidance on indoor situations.
Is there some kind of range for Perception? If the PCs are walking down a hall and the orcs are walking toward them in the other direction, when do I begin the Perception checks? How do you determine who sees who first (I understand that things like dark vision and how loud they all are might influence this). If no one is stealthing, do you just roll opposing Perception checks? Are there set limits to how far PCs and creatures can become aware things in the area?
So, are there set rules for determining who perceives who first in various circumstances? If not, how do other DMs work this?
In the close quarters indoors, you can't use Perception to 'see' something you don't have a line of sight to, so noise becomes a big factor.
Unless, the party is highly perceptive or completely without stealth, I just have them roll perception while standing just outside a closed door, as this is their best chance to detect something.
Another method would be to figure out at what distance the most perceptive member of either side would need to take 10 and succeed vs. the least stealthy member of the other side. Have both sides roll for perception at that distance.
The thing to remember about encounter distances is-when do you want the encounter to start? The limit of vision has little to do with it, since a light source can be seen for up to 5 times the distance the light actually illuminates, so outdoors the encounter distance at night can be as far as 300'. At that distance, figures (maybe general types and subtypes) can be seen, that's it. Once you get to the range that a light source will illuminate, encounters are pretty much a given. Daytime outdoors, you can see and distinguish creature type (humanoid, quadruped, etc.) from pretty far away, unless terrain features get in the way. Long story short, unless the enemy is setting an ambush ( or the PCs are), encounter distances are about one move action away.
I totally agree with all, but the bolded area.
Encounters begin on sight. An encounter at a range of 300' gives both parties ample time to formulate a strategy and cast any and all buffs in preparation of a fight.
A 300' encounter could simply entail one or both parties easily avoiding each other altogether.
Distant encounters add variety to what becomes the constant, and eventually mundane, 60' encounter range.
Distant encounters add variety to what becomes the constant, and eventually mundane, 60' encounter range.
True dat. I hate an endless parade of wilderness encounters that take place 60' away on an endless featureless plane.
Granted that most parties won't nuke another group of humans on sight at long range and will instead approach close enough to talk. Seeing a group of undead or monstrous humanoids at long range doesn't mean you have to wait to talk to them.
There is a reason spells have distances other than close and ranged weapons can shot more than a single range increment.
One other (important) comment to make is this: a party traveling through the dark with a light is far, far, far more visible to the monsters than the monsters are to them. Remember that the light that they carry illuminates them (probably very well, in that at least some of them are within 20' of the light) -- and that vision is not limited to the range of their darkvision (since light doesn't interfere with darkvision), unless otherwise stated.
Thus, if you're in darkened caves, or outside on a moonless and overcast night, the orcs can clearly see everything within 60' of them, plus, they can see (minus the perception hit for distance) everything that's being lit so brightly by the party. In fact, they would likely even see the light coming, giving them lots of time to decide what to do (or set up an ambush).
There's a reason lighthouses worked -- or, for that matter, why you can see cities from miles away in the dark.
A 300' encounter could simply entail one or both parties easily avoiding each other altogether.
Which would then, technically, not be an encounter since one party avoided the other.