gordbond |
Hey guys i need some more advice. My PCs in kingmaker have got a standing army of 700 soliders and what to take them to an encounter in the third book. They got a bloody nose from it and now they want to bring with them either the entire army or just 200 men to take out that encounter.
Any advice on dealing with this???
They know the price of marching the troops and can afford it and still want to do it.
need some help.
tlc_web tlc_web |
Hey guys i need some more advice. My PCs in kingmaker have got a standing army of 700 soliders and what to take them to an encounter in the third book. They got a bloody nose from it and now they want to bring with them either the entire army or just 200 men to take out that encounter.
Any advice on dealing with this???
They know the price of marching the troops and can afford it and still want to do it.
need some help.
Which encounter is it? The advice will depend on the encounter.
My simple advice? Find an reason to add some will-o-wisps to the encounter (their random wickness should make it possible), and make sure the wisps target the army and avoid the PCs. Wisps are MURDER on level 1 beings and can devastate whole armies. The PCs will hopefully realize that in some cases it is best or the small fries to stay out of the fight.
Brian Bachman |
Hey, this is a sandbox-style AP. If they want to do this, and are willing to pay the costs, I'd let them do it. There are some other potential problems they may not have considered.
Depending on the encounter, the army could be facing high-level opponents it has little chance of hurting and could take heavy casualties, which could effect morale or even destroy the army (25% casualties - killed and wounded -is generally enough to make a unit combat ineffective, needing major rest and recuperation to get back to full strength, and 50% is usually enough to destroy a unit completely.)
Marching the whole army out could leave their homeland vulnerable. Could cause Drelev or Pitax to get adventurous ahead of schedule if they have any spies in place (not unlikely).
Marching a whole army into Varnhold could spook the centaurs, who have no reason to trust human armies, and spark a conflict the PCs don't want or need.
This army would make a tempting target of opportunity for big V. New undead soldiers would fit nicely into his long-term plans.
It could lead Brevoy to wonder whether the players are forcibly annexing Varnhold, which is not what they were asked to do.
I wouldn't hit your players with all this stuff, but any one or two of them is very legitimate, if they are trying to hide behind low-level soldiers to accomplish something they should be able to handle on their own. In short, don't tell the players they can't do it, just encourage them to think about consequences and then let the chips fall where they may if they don't heed warnings.
gordbond |
They did this thing once before and it upset a nation to their south. The other nation sent an emesary with a message saying "stay out of our kingdom with your army, if you do it again then we will retelliate with our army."
Spoiler bellow (if playing do not click show!)
Now they want to send in the army use a corp of engineers to level *something* (
DM_aka_Dudemeister |
If the players are willing to lose hundreds of NPC lives in order to avoid the adventure they can, but I'm not sure why they're playing Pathfinder.
A specific answer to your Spoiler:
A powerful lich is not going to sit quietly and let an army of low-level creatures level his lair.
In any case there are plenty of creatures to send at the PCs and their army.
The two Wyverns are going to find the soldiers delicious.
He's got CR 6 zombies (feel free to make an army of the buggers equal to the CR of the PCs army or higher).
Finally he's got hostages, the Soul Jars contain the entire population of Varnhold only the most evil PC would allow those to be destroyed. So when Vordekai offers a truce (inviting them into the dungeon and closing the door behind them) game on.
Brian Bachman |
They did this thing once before and it upset a nation to their south. The other nation sent an emesary with a message saying "stay out of our kingdom with your army, if you do it again then we will retelliate with our army."
Spoiler bellow (if playing do not click show!)
Now they want to send in the army use a corp of engineers to level *something* (** spoiler omitted ** plot related story event).
If they can get their engineers, with their relevant equipment, up into the mountains, through the rather nasty random encounters that are possible there, across the lake, and into a position where they can actually use their siege equipment to bring down the BBEG's lair, without him retaliating and devastating the unit, then my hat is off to them. That is a phenomenally difficult task, much more difficult than just going in and taking out the BBEG themselves. Remember the BBEG's ability to spy on them pretty much the whole time. He's not going to just sit there and take it. If they are smart enough to come up with a way to get this done, well they probably still haven't managed to accomplish much except bury the BBEG's treasure under tons of rock and piss him off.
ChrisO |
Remember the BBEG's ability to spy on them pretty much the whole time. He's not going to just sit there and take it. If they are smart enough to come up with a way to get this done, well they probably still haven't managed to accomplish much except bury the BBEG's treasure under tons of rock and piss him off.
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Pretty much this.
V_ isn't going to go down with his ship. He's going to send a bunch of stuff at them, and if they keep it up, he'll D-Door away and come back at a later time. Like, years later. When he's a fully-realized *cough* with all the usual powers. And his own army.
And I'd have to agree the populace isn't going to be happy with their rulers. Armies are supposed to fight in wars. Heroes fight BBEGs.
'Course, there's nothing *stopping* them from doing so. As long as they're willing to accept the consequences. But it won't destroy V_. It'll just make him furious and bury a mound o' treasure.
Oh, and depending on how long it takes, a year may have passed, and V_'s "eye" may turn towards the PCs army...with devastating results. And if not, and V_ escapes? Every year, on the anniversary, another town mysteriously vanishes... ;)
gordbond |
So i know now they are going to bring their army to the above location due to last weeks disaster where they lost a PC in an attack.
So you all think i should turn this into an army V Army. Pcs army v BBEG army.
that could be fun.
but in the future how is it best to deal with the army fighing a single monster or a small group of monsters
Rathendar |
So i know now they are going to bring their army to the above location due to last weeks disaster where they lost a PC in an attack.
So you all think i should turn this into an army V Army. Pcs army v BBEG army.
that could be fun.
but in the future how is it best to deal with the army fighing a single monster or a small group of monsters
0 xp and reduce loot. (army takes spoils)
I'd also penalise kingdom stats if the army takes "major" casualties.
few points of unrest perhaps.
now, heaven forbid that an army sent out has any losses that come back to harass the populace as undead. faces you recognise? bad.
Volaran |
I would certainly suggest throwing the people of Varnhold (both those who have died, had their brains devoured, etc. and those who are currently in the soul jars). These are people who could have been, in some cases, saved with a more surgical strike, but would be more useful to Vordekai as bodies to put in the PCs' way.
Keep in mind that there are not one, but two wizards in that lair. Vordekai has powerful scrying magic, and access to summoning through his artifact (he's limited to creatures of Abbadon, which covers more than the Piscodaemon and the Soul Eaters).
200-700 people in an army are going to move slowly. I would have Vordekai harass them en route with outsiders using hit and run tactics. Armies are generally made up of low level troops, so area effect spells or abilities are going to be devestating.
I'm not sure how they intend to collapse the lair. Large scale explosives are out. Maybe seige engines? It seems like a good opportunity to have Cephal Lorentus and a large group of Varnhold zombies and cyclops zombies waiting underwater, to rise up when the army sleeps, or begins to enter the tomb.
These aren't normal men that the army is going to be fighting. Terrifying supernatural creatures are going to be much more likely to break their morale than fighting the normal forces of another country. These probably aren't the kind of folks who were expecting these kinds of duties, or they'd be in Lastwall or Mendev.
Win or lose, I'd certainly apply unrest, and this does seem like a good time to have any of the other enemies of the PCs strike their country.