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First Question: If I give a creature construct armor, do include the Construct Armor as part of the CR?
Example: I have created a 15th level human Magus with the Craft Construct feat. He has crafted himself an Iron Golem Construct Armor.
Normal - Human Magus 15 is CR 14. He's a boss and has PC level wealth increasing his CR to 15 (51,200 xp).
If the Iron Golem is included the XP reward increases to 76,800 (that budget would buy a CR 16 encounter).
Second Question: Is a creature wearing Construct Armor susceptible to the attacks which effect golems?
Using the Magus in Iron Golem Armor above: Is he Slowed by Electrical attacks? Is he healed by fire attacks? Is he otherwise immune to magic?
I'm designing a high level challenge for my PCs to face in my Kingmaker game and while this isn't for a while down the track it would be useful information to have ahead of time :)
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First Question: If I give a creature construct armor, do include the Construct Armor as part of the CR?
Example: I have created a 15th level human Magus with the Craft Construct feat. He has crafted himself an Iron Golem Construct Armor.
Normal - Human Magus 15 is CR 14. He's a boss and has PC level wealth increasing his CR to 15 (51,200 xp).
If the Iron Golem is included the XP reward increases to 76,800 (that budget would buy a CR 16 encounter).
Second Question: Is a creature wearing Construct Armor susceptible to the attacks which effect golems?
Using the Magus in Iron Golem Armor above: Is he Slowed by Electrical attacks? Is he healed by fire attacks? Is he otherwise immune to magic?
I'm designing a high level challenge for my PCs to face in my Kingmaker game and while this isn't for a while down the track it would be useful information to have ahead of time :)
Question 1 : NO, if the Magus paid for it, it's like a cohort from the leadership feat - it's already included in the Magus's CR. I will note however, this is the kind of DM Cheese that is frowned upon and leads to majorly under-CR'ed encounters (at least with leadership, given that construct armor can't actually take actions, it's likely much less problematic.
Question 2 : Construct armor is badly written and could use several examples - this would be a good topic for a Paizo blog (HINT HINT). IMO, it does just what you say. It wraps the user in a shell of golem HP, and anything that hits him has to deal with the golem's resistances (and vulnerabilities) first. Note that this includes construct traits. Magus boy is immune to a load of stuff until the Golem gets dead. Note however, that you have to modify the stats of the iron golem - to use construct armor, the construct must be the same size as the user... and you may as well optimize the golem - neither it nor the magus will be able to use the breath attack, nor take adavantage of it's exceptional attack...
Right on, thanks for the advice. As to the problem of size - The Magus has Enlarge Person cast on himself before jumping in, being 15th level that's 15 minutes of Tank Time. He's aware he's on a timer once he beefs up so that's part of the fun.
Some follow up ideas - Would a pair of feats allowing the wearer of Construct Armour to use the construct's Slam attack damage, and breath weapon be unreasonable (at this point I'm aware I'm into houserules territory) - or would that make it an unreasonable challenge for the CR?
Here's what I went with:
King In Iron CR 16
Human Magus 16
LE Large humanoid (human)
Init +0; Senses darkvision 60 ft., see invisibility; Perception +8
Defense
AC 30, touch 16, flat-footed 26 (+11 Armour, +3 Deflection, +0 Dex, +2 Natural, +4 Shield, +1 dodge -1 size)
hp 129 (16 HD; 16d8+28+30) (Iron Golem HP 129)
Fort +14, Ref +9, Will +14;
Defensive Abilities DR 15/adamantine; Immune construct traits, magic
Offense
Speed 90 ft.
Melee rod of razors (+3 flaming burst shocking burst keen adamantine Urumi) +21/+21/+16/+11 (2d6+6/17–20/x2 +1d6 fire, +1d6 electricity or 1d10 & 1d10 of each on critical hit plus spell )
Ranged Spells
Space 10 ft.; Reach 10 ft. (20 ft. with rod of razors)
Special Attacks Breath Weapon free action (inhaled, save Fort 19; frequency 1/round for 4 rounds; effect 1d4 Constitution Damage, cure 2 saves) (Only useable every 1d4+1 rounds).
Spells Known (CL 11th; concentration +19/+25 cast defensively) (DC 15 + Spell Level or 16 + Spell level for Evocation)
6th (2/day)- Sirocco, Transformation
5th (3/day)- Teleport, Corrosive Consumption, Acidic Spray*
4th (5/day)— Dimension Door, Stoneskin, Solid Fog, Black Tentacles, Wall of Fire*
3rd (6/day)— Haste^, Dispel Magic, Ray of Exhaustion, Vampiric Touch, Fireball*, Slow
2nd (6/day)— Bear's Endurance^, Bull's Strength^, Mirror Image^, Elemental Touch*, Frigid Touch*, Shatter*
1st (6/day)— Shocking Grasp*, True Strike, Unseen Servant, Stone Fist, Enlarge Person^, Corrosive Touch*
0 (at will)— Acid Splash*, Detect Magic, Light, Prestidigitation, Read Magic
* = Evocation. ^ = Precast
Str 19, Dex 11, Con 17, Int 20, Wis 14, Cha 19
Base Atk +11; CMB +15; CMD 25
Feats Toughness, Exotic Weapon Proficiency (Urumi), Weapon Focus (Urumi), Weapon Specialization (Urumi), Combat Expertise, Improved Disarm, Craft (Construct), Scribe (Scroll), Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Magic Arms and Armour, Spell Focus (Evocation).
Skills Bluff +19, Craft (Armor) +21, Intimidate +23, Knowledge (Arcana) +25, Knowledge (Engineering) +22, Perception +9, Spellcraft +25, Use Magic Device +23
Languages Common, Hallit, Skald; tongues
SQ Arcane Pool 12, (1 point used for weapon enhancement), Spell Combat, Spellstrike, Magus Arcana (Concentrate, Close Range, Manoeuvre Mastery, Dispelling Strike, Reflection), Spell Recall, Knowledge Pool, Improved Spell Combat, Fighter Training, Improved Spell Recall, Heavy Armour, Greater Spell Combat, Counterstrike.
Combat Gear potions of lesser restoration (4), scroll of heal, scroll of restoration, scroll of teleport, wand of hold monster (CL 10th, 13 charges); Other Gear +5 iron golem construct armor, rod of razors, amulet of natural armor +2, boots of speed, cloak of resistance +4, ring of protection +3, master key (unlocks all locks in the palace), mindrender baton, Iron Crown of Rulership (+2 Int, +2 Wis, +2 Cha)
Special Abilities
Iron Golem Armor - The King wears an Iron Golem as his armour, all attacks target the iron golem rather than the King. If the Golem is enchanted with a +5 bonus to its AC.
Contingency King in Iron used a scroll to cast contingency: if he ever takes more than 10 points of damage from a single attack, a dimension door whisks him away (in this case, to his den in area 1).
Improved Resources Not only does King in Iron have the resources of a PC as regards his gear, but his ability scores use a PC array.
Permanent Spells King Irovetti has used scrolls of permanency to gain the following permanent spell effects: darkvision, see invisibility, and tongues
In essence, I was thinking of replacing the Urumi stuff with the Construct Slam as his primary weapon, and give him access to the breath weapon. Too much?
I'm not super experienced with high level play (for the record I expect PCs to be around 14th level when they fight him)
Right on, thanks for the advice. As to the problem of size - The Magus has Enlarge Person cast on himself before jumping in, being 15th level that's 15 minutes of Tank Time. He's aware he's on a timer once he beefs up so that's part of the fun.
Some follow up ideas - Would a pair of feats allowing the wearer of Construct Armour to use the construct's Slam attack damage, and breath weapon be unreasonable (at this point I'm aware I'm into houserules territory) - or would that make it an unreasonable challenge for the CR?
Here's what I went with:
*Spoiler*
In essence, I was thinking of replacing the Urumi stuff with the Construct Slam as his primary weapon, and give him access to the breath weapon. Too much?
I'm not super experienced with high level play (for the record I expect PCs to be around 14th level when they fight him)
Technically RAW enlarge person wouldn't work as the creator isn't really large, but in a non PFS game I can't see too many crying foul about it.
I don't see where the modification says they cannot use slam or the breath weapon. Is it somewhere else hidden away? I see that it says the construct won't take independant action, which means it won't fight on its own. But RAW there is nothing keeping you from prompting or using those abilities. Not quite sure where pad300 is getting that from.
"This modification allows the construct to be worn like armor by its creator. So long as the creator wears it, the construct performs no independent actions, remaining under the control of the creator,.."
"The construct’s wearer retains his base attacks and saves. Construct armor counts as breastplate armor for purposes of determining AC, weight, Dexterity modifiers to AC, and chance of arcane spell failure."
Those are the only real limitations regarding the modification I see, unless it is somewhere else in the book. If there is nothing else in the book, or FAQ about the modification, I see no reason why you'd use feats to gain access to those abilities.
I wouldn't bother with the slam feat - it's not going to be much superior to that urumi. Although that urumi could be more optimal - burst effects are inefficient. I would downgrade them to flaming and shock, while making it a +5 weapon. Also, using slams would probably screw up spell combat and spell strike (not
Slams would be natural attacks for all intents and purposes, the caster is in control of the golem using his/her BAB and saves instead of those in the stat block. Given that the magus abilties reference TWF and impose penalties, I would say natural attacks are allowed at the additional penalties they normally work at. They wouldn't screw anything up, they'd just impose nasty penalties without the TWF feat. You have something that "works like" TWF, but you don't actually have it. You'd have to decide if it is worth having the additional slam attack (as you'd only get one, the other hand is holding a weapon so wouldn't be available to use as a natural attack) for the cost of the feat. The information for natural attacks interacting with a full round attack are on PFRPG core p. 189.
"This modification allows the construct to be worn like armor by its creator. So long as the creator wears it, the construct performs no independent actions, remaining under the control of the creator,.."
"The construct’s wearer retains his base attacks and saves. Construct armor counts as breastplate armor for purposes of determining AC, weight, Dexterity modifiers to AC, and chance of arcane spell failure."
By RAW that would mean you have access to the breath weapon, and slam attacks. The Golem would be unable to use them itself, but you can control the Golem to use them. You would have the same action economy as the Golem, in this aspect however as a caster you can prepare spells that can heal/haste some of the golems as well as ones that you can repurpose for damage. While it may seem a bit overpowered to some, I really like the idea. In my opinion the expense of the golem and the upgrade to turn it into Construct Armor is worth it. :)
By RAW that would mean you have access to the breath weapon, and slam attacks. The Golem would be unable to use them itself, but you can control the Golem to use them. You would have the same action economy as the Golem, in this aspect however as a caster you can prepare spells that can heal/haste some of the golems as well as ones that you can repurpose for damage. While it may seem a bit overpowered to some, I really like the idea. In my opinion the expense of the golem and the upgrade to turn it into Construct Armor is worth it. :)
It is worth it until the golem is destroyed at which point all the gold invested is completely gone (minus the raw materials if the DM is lenient). I agree it is powerful, but I think that is why it didn't limit it as pad300 mentioned. He/she might come back with some page numbers or links showing those limitations but until then I only have the wording of the feat to base it on. Regardless, 35k gold is a decent amount of gold especially considering you are paying just to use another expensive item. In a PFS where you cap out at level 12, you should have roughly 108k gold, that is a third of your gold, to use something.
By RAW that would mean you have access to the breath weapon, and slam attacks. The Golem would be unable to use them itself, but you can control the Golem to use them. You would have the same action economy as the Golem, in this aspect however as a caster you can prepare spells that can heal/haste some of the golems as well as ones that you can repurpose for damage. While it may seem a bit overpowered to some, I really like the idea. In my opinion the expense of the golem and the upgrade to turn it into Construct Armor is worth it. :)It is worth it until the golem is destroyed at which point all the gold invested is completely gone (minus the raw materials if the DM is lenient). I agree it is powerful, but I think that is why it didn't limit it as pad300 mentioned. He/she might come back with some page numbers or links showing those limitations but until then I only have the wording of the feat to base it on. Regardless, 35k gold is a decent amount of gold especially considering you are paying just to use another expensive item. In a PFS where you cap out at level 12, you should have roughly 108k gold, that is a third of your gold, to use something.
That's what Make Whole is for.
That's what Make Whole is for.
Which is fine assuming the construct survives, a construct isn't a magical item, you cannot just cast "Make Whole" to revive a dead construct creature unfortunately.
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From the FAQ:
Construct Armor (page 114): How do attacks target the construct armor? Do I gain its resistances, immunities, and other defenses? What are the "benefits" and "hindrances" mentioned in this section? Does wearing it affect your speed?
The construct armor is treated as breastplate for the purpose of AC. If something targets you, it must first hit your AC. If it hits you, the attack has to get through the construct's DR or hardness and its hit points. In effect, the construct armor acts much like a pool of temporary hit points: you don't take any damage from attacks that target your AC until the construct is destroyed.
Attacks that bypass your AC bypass this protection and affects you normally (this includes most area effects). If the construct is resistant or immune to a particular attack, the attack bypasses this protection and affects you normally. Basically, the construct armor is good at mitigating damage from melee and ranged attacks, but doesn't protect you like you were the actual construct.
For example, a wood golem is immune to and healed by cold; if you're wearing wood golem armor, hitting you with a ray of frost doesn't harm the armor, heals the armor if the attack deals at least 3 points of cold damage, and deals 1d3 points of cold damage to you. Fortunately, you don't gain the construct's weaknesses; just because a wood golem has vulnerability to fire doesn't mean you take 150% fire damage when wearing wood golem armor.
The "benefits" in this section refer to the construct armor counting as breastplate and to its hit point buffer against melee and ranged attacks. The "penalties" in this section refer to the construct armor counting as breastplate.
Because the "counts as breastplate" section doesn't say it affects your speed (presumably because the construct is partially animate and able to help you move), it does not affect your speed.
Update: Page 114—In the Construct Armor modification, in the first paragraph, in the second sentence, change “first target the construct” to “damage the construct.” In the third sentence, change “regains all the hindrances” to “retains all the hindrances.”
—Sean K Reynolds, 11/17/11
Luckily I'm the GM, and can break the rules a little for a fun challenge, but according to the FAQ no magic immunity, and no breath weapon. Tragic.
This modification allows the construct to be worn like armor by its creator. So long as the creator wears it, the construct performs no independent actions, remaining under the control of the creator, and any attacks directed at the wearer first target the construct. When a construct is destroyed while serving as armor, the wearer loses all the benefits, but regains all the hindrances until the armor is removed, which takes the same amount of time that removing breastplate armor does. If the construct is still active, the creator can order the removal of the armor with a swift action, at which point the construct leaves the creator’s space and enters a space adjacent to the creator. Donning construct armor takes a full-round action if the construct is still active. The creator cannot don a construct with this modification if the construct has been destroyed.
The construct’s wearer retains his base attacks and saves. Construct armor counts as breastplate armor for purposes of determining AC, weight, Dexterity modifiers to AC, and chance of arcane spell failure.
It seems to me that since you can control the constructs actions you gain access to it's special attacks, but not it's feats, at least not any that require activation (for instance if it had Power Attack you wouldn't get that benefit, but if it had Ability Focus X and you used ability X you would, not that most constructs have feats). However, you also have to use your BAB, saves, etc for all actions, presumably because you are controlling the construct at this point and it cannot do anything without your direction.
As for the targeting aspect, you are effectively shielded by the construct and gain a +6 AC as though wearing a breastplate. You are both targeted as one creature, but if the effect cannot bypass the construct's DR, HP, and resistances, that attack cannot affect you.
Furthermore, the construct's HP is essentially added to yours as temporary HP, but once that runs out you loose all the benefits from the construct and it just becomes a piece of enchanted armor (assuming it had any enhancements).
One thing to note is that magical attacks which target multiple creatures might be able to penetrate this unless the construct in question is immune to or able to resist (via SR) that effect.
I also see no reason why a Enlarged person could not wear a construct with this modification while he is enlarged, nor any reason why a medium creature wearing a medium construct with this modification could not benefit from the Enlarge Person spell. That spell clearly states that all equipment worn or carried is also enlarged, and while worn the construct is essentially another piece of equipment.
Of course, this is just my take on things. Hope that gives you some more ammo tho.
Edit: Another point to keep in mind is that while you do not gain your construct armor's weaknesses and vulnerabilities your armor is still affected by these traits which may cause the temp HP from your construct armor to be dwindled more quickly or prevent it (and thus you, based on DM interpretation) from moving at it's full speed, etc.
Oh, and if you spent gold to buy/build the construct, it is already factored into the character's wealth as equipment and thus wouldn't affect his CR.
Hi!
Regarding this topic, would be a cheesy interpretation to assume a character, inside the construct, but letting the construct do the attacks and so forth? For example, can I (after beeing Elnarged) enter an Iron Golem and order it to keep attacking normaly (taking no actions myself)?