I am working on a Barbarian guide and build compilation, and I would love to see some builds from all you wonderful folks.
I am focusing on usability here, so I am interested in builds using only Paizo materials with level benchmarks around 6, 12, and 16-17. In between is fine, but PFS only goes to 12 (obv) and most PF APs only run to around 16 so that is the reasoning there.
OP builds are very welcome, but I wouldn't mind seeing a few solid flavorful ones as well. I really want to do the class justice. If you happen to have builds in Hero Lab format or are just interested in sending them in some sort of file, shoot me an email.
The guide isn't ready yet, but I aim to have it viewable by this time next week.
I also have a Witch guide that has been revamped multiple times, I have been meaning to put it out but then I dusted it for a bit since UM dropped and I haven't worked my way through all the spells and such yet (primarily because my current game isn't allowing the book yet, and kids and stuff...) so if anyone is interested in emailing me witch builds or standout spells from UM I would be grateful for that too. :)
I love you guys, and I would really like to give back to the community and this just seems like the logical way to do so. Thanks for any help in advance!
You might want to take a look at that. It isn't finished but maybe you could finish it (please....). Oh and if you do you might want the orange used to a lighter orange.
@Feral: I would say 1/3 to 1/2 raging class levels. My aim is for Barbarian to be the primary class focus, but there obviously are ways to accentuate it with great multiclassing.
@leo: I will definitely go over that. Thanks.
You might want to take a look at that. It isn't finished but maybe you could finish it (please....). Oh and if you do you might want the orange used to a lighter orange.
few things about your guide:
1) Reckless abandon is not bad at all. I've seen it with invulnerable rager and prepared party at least. The Barbarian ended hitting with 2+ everything.
2) Knockdown is nice in my opinion - as well as unexpected strike. At least the latter can save you even with 1/rage.
2b) remember the level 17 thing for 1/rage powers
3) Strenght surge is amazing since is defensive too. Can save you from grabs if you charge.
4) agree 100% on superstition. people tend to understimate it. remember to point out the human power in APG, raising superstition up to +13 t level 20.
My humble opinion of course.
If this is discussed elsewhere please point me in the right direction.
Why is Raging Vitality so good? The 36 point swing (@12th) in HP when you come out of rage seems deadly to me. When combined with Superstitious it seems like you would not be getting healing in time to counter the drop in health.
Why is Furious Focus never taken? This feat looks like pure cake to me. No penalty for extra damage on Primary attack. If you move around a lot and only get one strike I thought it would be awesome, but I have not come across a Barb build that uses it yet.
Thanks
Furious Focus vs the Accuracy rage power>.... in this case the rage power lets you apply the bonus to hit to whichever attack needs buffing the most, so basically equals FF but more versatile
For PFS consider 11Barb/1 Lame Oracle [metal Dance of blades] this will in effect give you tireless rage, immunity to fatigue, and no encumbrance to armor!
Matt's build is solid, but I'd offer an a slight alternative I like to use.
Human Barbarian (Beast totem, Invulnerable Rager), Favored Bonus = Superstition
20 Pt Buy
Str 18
Dex 14
Con 15
Int 10
Wis 10
Cha 8
1 Feat: Power Attack, Raging Vitality (h)
2 Rage: Lesser Beast Totem
3 Feat: Combat Reflexes
4 Rage: Rage Power-Superstitious
5 Feat: Bonus Rage Power-Reckless abandon
6 Rage: Beast Totem
7 Feat: Armour Proficiency (Heavy)
8 Rage: Strength Surge/Witch Hunter
9 Feat: Step-up/ Lunge
10 Rage: Greater Beast Totem
11 Feat: Dazing Assault
12 Rage: Come and Get Me
I really like having Dazing Assault at 11. It allows you to try to disable casters when you attack them,, as well as limit the amount of punishment you take with Come and Get Me if you need it, by forcing Fort saves.
Armour Proficiency Heavy for Mithral Full Plate, with the level 8/9 choices depending on your taste.
If your campaign is going to level 20, I would pick up alot of the 1/rage powers to take advantage of Tireless Rage and level 17.
Also, the Human bonus to superstition is the most powerful racial choice, but Dwarves with the steel soul feat can also make very strong Barbarians.
Furious Focus vs the Accuracy rage power>.... in this case the rage power lets you apply the bonus to hit to whichever attack needs buffing the most, so basically equals FF but more versatile
I am not sure Surprise Accuracy is better than Furious Focus. First Surprise Accuracy is 1/rage and only usable during rage. Furious Focus works every first attack of every round as long as you are two-handing a weapon. I will grant you the ability to move the bonus is flexible, but you only really get that once a combat. With Furious Focus, you can power attack for free on your turn, only seeing the penalty on AoOs. You could combine this with Dazing Assault and really have a better chance of landing the hit with Power Attack on.
Probably should have combined with the other post...
Raging Vitality is awesome because it lets you rage while unconscious. Otherwise you will hit -1HP stop raging and be well dead before anyone can say Oh the barbarian is down. As far as superstition goes, yes I wlll be tougher to heal while raging (probably make all my saves and only heal for half HP). To off set this I hope to "kill all humans" (and other beings) as quickly as I can. I also took Flesh wound to be able to soak a huge hit once a rage. In addition, if I get really worried about it, I can take moment of clarity and scream "Medic!!!!" once a round for a big heal from our resident heal bot.
Raging while unconscious is one of the reasons I don’t like the feat. I am expending a resource while unable to use it. Unconscious raging would keep Superstitious up and also prevent healing. To me, Guarded Life seems like a better option for staying alive. Raging Vital grants essentially +1 hp/level and +1 on Fortitude while raging. Toughness seems like a better feat. The same extra hp all the time and front loaded if you take it early, and do you need the +1 on Fortitude while raging.
I am with you on “kill’em all” and deal with the pain later, and I have to admit your use of clear mind is probably the best use of the power I have seen. But if you medic isn’t in position or simply decides to do otherwise your 1/rage Clear mind is wasted and no healing without a save is in your future.
Furious focus lets you ignore the power attack negative on your first attack. I am not too woried about missing my first attack because I have reckless abandon. I will be converting all those -hit into -AC.
Reckless Abandon Rocks…while raging. Furious Focus works all the time and doesn’t cost AC. Why not use both?
I recently started a barbarian in our Kingmaker campaign, and while he's not totally optimized, I do like to think of this as my 'A Good Defense is a Great Offense' build.
Human Barbarian (Invulnerable Rager, Beast Totem)
Str 18
Dex 14
Con 14
Wis 10
Int 10
Cha 10
Human/1st Power Attack/Furious Focus
2nd Reckless Abandon
3rd Weapon Focus
4th Beast Totem, Lesser
5th Raging Vitality
6th Beast Totem
7th Extra Rage Power: Elemental Rage, Lesser
8th Elemental Rage
9th Lunge
10th Beast Totem, Greater
11th Combat Reflexes
12th Come and Get Me
13th Iron Will
14th Superstition
15th Extra Rage Power: Flesh Wound
16th Mighty Swing
The choices I made are mostly about getting in fast and hitting as hard as possible while making sure I can stick as many hits as possible. Furious Focus, Reckless Abandon, and Weapon focus are the hitting part of the equation. Beast totem chain, pounce is duh. Raging Vitality, more HP, better fort saves, awesome. Elemental Rage chain, well, I look at these feats like the Barbarian version of weapon Spec, its not quite as good, but on average it is very very close. Combat Reflexes combines with Come and Get me for awesomeness. Lunge lets me hit stuff further away for just -2AC, that's just more full attacks with a bit of AC loss. Iron will and Superstition to shore up the bad saves when they start being extra critical. Flesh Wound for basically shrugging off a hit per fight. And Mighty Swing is very helpful blasting through an enemy at least once a combat.
If I could add in a way to get Improved Overrun, Charge Through, and Strength Surge, I would definitely pick them up. Adding Charge options for the pounce and being able to knock someone prone while doing it would just be awesome. Losing Raging Vitality and Lunge would be the two best ways, but I feel those abilities are more useful more often.
Re: Reckless Abandon & Superstitious: I totally disagree with the previous Barbarian guide posted here; these two powers are both very strong. IMO, Superstitious is a solid Blue choice, and Reckless Abandon is at least Green and probably Blue for the average Barbarian build.
@Matt & BSF: Thanks for those, they are really solid "Classic" Barbarian builds, and pretty close to what I was thinking of as the working idea for such.
@Nordlander: i will definitely make note of that multiclass option with a specific nod to PFS play.
@riatin: Thanks. As I said, the build doesn't need to be fully OP to be a helpful contribution.
Thanks to everyone so far, especially the little insights I have gleaned from your PFS builds.
I like Furious Focus, but I can also see it being difficult to fit into a highly streamlined, OP build. IMO, as far as the guide is coming along, Furious Focus is 2.5 stars, or not quite Green. I may reevaluate that as I have more input on the item.
One thing that I would like to really hit out of the park to distinguish my guide is a really strong multiclass section. Here are a few of the things I am looking at right now for it that I would love opinions/experience/input on:
Ranger multiclasses, specifically to enhance Natural Weapon fighters and/or to feat-cheap into Horizon Walker.
Druid multiclasses for Natural Weapon fighters, possibly using the feat from UM that ups your Druid level by +4 for Wild Shape. Seems like it could be awesome.
Horizon Walker builds in general: to abuse the fact that you can get immunity to fatigue and exhaustion by HW3.
Druid or Nature Oracle multiclasses to synergize with the Mounted Fury Archetype.
I have also been considering Alchemist MCs, mostly for mutagen access, but Vivisectionist now may make it an even more appealing option.
Thoughts or additions you would like to see?
Thanks again, everyone!
One level or oracle taking the lame curse, and 8 levels of Barbarian now makes you immune to fatigue.
Two levels of rogue gives you a free feat, evasion, extra skills and UMD as a class skill.
Monks who stop being lawful can not advance as monks, but retain all there abilities, so thats a cheesy but nice multiclass.
One level of bard allows you to go into Dragon Discple, which after 4 levels gives you 4 points on strength. Plus all the perks of one level of Bard, CLW wands, umd, the spell Invigorate(ignore fatigue).
A very convincing example!
Ok, I think I see your point on Guarded Life and I can see why you would use Raging Vitality, but when combined with Superstitious I think it might cause just as much an issue.
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Endurance + Diehard + a bag full of healing potions is a much better option for a Barbarian worrying about dropping below his 'insta-death when rage stops' threshold... and the Endurance + Diehard is only if you start worrying about the big 'post-rage crash' way too late...
The extra Hit Points from raging, and therefore the 'crash' after raging, are 2x level up to 10, 3x level up to 19, and a full 80 Hit Points at level 20. Raging Vitality pumps all these mutlipliers by 1 (a 100 Hit Point crash at level 20...). So, basically, most Barbarians pretty much risk insta-death from the crash if they're below their extra Hit Points threshold at all from level 11 onwards... You'll want to note this 'crash' number on your character sheet with a thick red marker - and start to worry as soon as your Hit Points dip below it during a rage...
The Drunken Brute archetype's Raging Drunk class feature may well be the best way to handle this - just make sure you're stocked up on potions... or at least beer, so you can keep going until the party healers get to you...
Halfling Mounted barbarian (beast totem)
Nothing quite like you and your mount pounce with you getting double damage on all your attacks.
You'll want Boon Companion and go for the Boar Companion. Otherwise much like everyone else's builds only pushed until higher level.
Barbarian and alchemist dip well for each other, especially to help avoid the crash -- a human (heart of the wilderness) barbarian/alchemist with raging vitality and lingering spirit can really take some punishment before worrying about dropping. The Spontaneous Healing discovery can be very useful too.
Only getting half healing is very painful, but I think the awesome saves counters that.
And then it clicks. You still get half healing. *smacks forehead
Of course you still get half.Thank you Matt, I think you finally made it sink in this dumb goblin's head.