So, it sounds like you want a different setting. That's fine, write one up.
I find it helpful to write down things i DON'T like, and things I do like, and go from there.
Remember, you'll want SOME variety for character creation. If the campaign setting is "everyone's a human, and you're all like thin, and wear this, and eat this" it could be hard to recruit players.
One suggestion, if you want a campaign like this, would be to disallow all races which aren't at least partially human -- then allow those with the understanding there will be some amount of discrimination (if detected). You could then allow traits (or Feats, I suppose, though that's extreme) that allow the half-bloods to blend in to "normal" society.
It would fit into the idea of "isolationist" races (which, if you then flesh out their societies a bit and avoid the most common tropes, can become "exotic" all their own -- alternate racial features are a big help here) -- so the elves look down on Half-Elves as inferior, while Orcs consider Half-Orcs to be weaklings. (You can decide if you want additional half-blood races in your world, personally, I would)
Also, to help players feel like they're not being shoe-horned into just one race, you can also allow the Planetouched races (Aasimar, Tielfling, Ifrit et. al) -- but before opening up those races, figure out how rare they are and how society views them. [And that last one can and should vary by society.] For example, some commoners may feel that they're a blessing (especially Aasimar) and want to run up and touch them to be "healed" or otherwise gain from their light, while others may be superstitious and want to burn them at the stake (and, in some cases, the same groups/individuals might have both feelings, depending how they're treated)... while a nearby city-state which is highly magical (trying to keep up with those cursed elves and dwarves with their long lifespans and innate abilities) may have frequent contact with outsiders and so the planetouched there may be considered blessings, or just be generally accepted, or be treated as red-headed step-children, whatever..
But, as others have said -- you're making your own world here - and so the real work to make things seem neat and new and strange falls on you as the person who designs *your* version of the non-human races -- and *your* version of humanity's reaction to them -- whether it's awe, jealousy, weird superstition (whether well-founded or baseless) or all of the above. For instance, your humans might have a superstition about not looking elves in the eye because they'll steal your soul -- and that might be all your players know about *those* elves until they meet some later. [And it may be because Elves in your world have a racial ability to fascinate/hypnotize x/day, or because they gain bonuses if they specialize in Enchantment spells, or because they have a racial bonus to diplomacy/negotiation and drive such bargains that humans figure they must be using magic to do it..]
It's sentiment like yours, of being bored by the "generic" tropes of fantasy gaming that helps lead to the development of new (sometimes spiffy) scenarios/worlds (Eberon, Athas [Dark Sun], Krynn [Dragonlance], Ravenloft, etc.) which have a different flavour and feel from the normal, such that exploring them can be "exciting" to people bored with the status quo...
So - my advice is: if you're willing to do it -- then take the time and do it.... Often it only requires coming up with a few "what ifs" and answering those questions to be able to make something kind of neat.
[One of my "different" worlds had almost no arcane magic because of a past war which the gods themselves stepped in to stop... Most characters were born with a "blessing" from one of the gods (if not, you were unblessed, and got a bonus against divine magic). The lack of arcane magic meant there were a lot more divine-inspired items and special material/masterwork sort of items since (in that edition) you needed arcane to make permanent items... it all flowed from there and it was pretty fun.]
@KayYoss What would you suggest I do?
I was just giving the "evil dragon" as an example. My issue really is just the "elves and dwarves" part. A setting like Iron Heroes sounds almost perfect, but I still want elves and dwarves (and other mythical creatures) to exist, I just want them to be more monstrous, exotic, or mystical. I kinda want it to be a game of exploration, discovering or experiencing these fantastic people and creatures for the first time.
I miss the feeling of excitement and pure wonder. The kind of wonder I felt when I was young, being first introduced to fantasy literature.
Have you tried Iron Kingdoms?
In Iron Kingdoms, there are no gnomes or halflings. There is a race of short people called Gobbers, who are like goblins with a talent for making and breaking machinery. There are no orcs or half-orcs, but there is a race called the Ogrun, who are sort of like a half-ogre race would be, except without the crossbreeding.
There are two types of elves. Winter Elves come from the far north and (after I made my character I found out that) they will almost never be seen in the southern lands. (Kind of makes my character stick out.) The other type is xenophobic and believes that human wizards are responsible for all their problems.
Dwarves are actually kind of normal, compared to other settings.
What KaeYoss said about non-human adventurers sounds politically correct, but a fantasy setting is not necessarily politically correct.I wasn't talking about the settings. I was talking about people here.
If the whole world is like this, it's just boring.
But of course elves have lots of money, so you can charge them extra for everything. And charge the dwarves triple.And everybody knows that halflings are burglars who are going to take everything that is not nailed down, so keep them out of the store. And you heard me right, I called them halflings. If they don't like it, what are they going to do? Cry into my kneecaps?
And the half-orc should be happy the town guard even let her into town.
Fortunately, I put a lot of thought into the different cultures of my world and what makes them different. For example, the Kosaka have strict laws forbidding sex between humans and hobgoblins. (Of course, you know what THAT means...) The Audorians, on the other hand, are a lot more accepting, although it would be very unusual since they don't have as many opportunities for such contact.
And, of course, there are four different cultures of gnomes, one of which is very important for negotiating human/hobgoblin agreements when the need arises.
The Kingdom of Audor even has non-discrimination laws. Or course, you know what that means...
But, seriously, the Audorans do get along well with dwarves and halflings. Relations with the elves have been strained since the War of Toranian Occupation, which was about 200 years in the past.
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Thanks feytharn. I do realize now, recapturing the old feelings just isn't going to happen. Creating new ones is what I have to strive for. Thanks for the advice =)
My current game is going in a "horror" direction, with the players beginning at level 10. I wonder what I could do with that game..
I'm not sure what this "old feeling" is.
Then again, I started playing D&D in 1980, when all halflings were relatives of Bilbo Baggins and every one of them was a burglar. Dwarves were forbidden to practice magic. Elves were tall guys with pointy ears.
(Actually, in my 1st Edition days, I had a humans-only rule, so nonhumans did not play much of a role.)
When I created Audor after 3rd edition came out, I mined the old campaigns for ideas, and considered how the nonhumans might fit in. What did I want the dwarves, elves, halflings, et cetera, to do and to be like? What kind of role would they have in my new campaign?
Thanks feytharn. I do realize now, recapturing the old feelings just isn't going to happen. Creating new ones is what I have to strive for. Thanks for the advice =)
My current game is going in a "horror" direction, with the players beginning at level 10. I wonder what I could do with that game..
I'm not sure what this "old feeling" is.
Then again, I started playing D&D in 1980, when all halflings were relatives of Bilbo Baggins and every one of them was a burglar. Dwarves were forbidden to practice magic. Elves were tall guys with pointy ears.
(Actually, in my 1st Edition days, I had a humans-only rule, so nonhumans did not play much of a role.)
When I created Audor after 3rd edition came out, I mined the old campaigns for ideas, and considered how the nonhumans might fit in. What did I want the dwarves, elves, halflings, et cetera, to do and to be like? What kind of role would they have in my new campaign?
Interesting. My original 1e campaign world was called "Dwarvenwyrd" and was based on the premise that dwarves had been wiped out in a planet-wide genocide. The goal of the campaign was to find out what happened to the dwarves, and once the secret was discovered, restore the dwarven race.
That more or less coincided with the 2e release so with 2e dwarves were allowed as PCs, as they still are today, but the dwarven genocide is still a powerful racial memory and dwarves are somewhat insular and xenophobic to the "modern" day.
I've had to revise some of the content each time there is a new version.
I have not revised anything yet for 4e and have not yet even decided if I will.
You might want to check out some GreenRonin stuff. They made a Black Company campaign setting a while back, albeit with a modified D20 rule-set (not a bad thing in itself). Maybe you can get your hand on that.
Actually, one of the things that I've been thinking about, is that you rarely hear about the female members of a species, except for female elves and halflings and occasionally a gnome.
People usually assume that the females are just like the males, only with breasts.
But some thinking on what sex roles might be in another species, and perhaps playing around with some concepts could lead to interesting ideas.
One idea I've already mentioned is renegade hobgoblins who are ruled by a caste of priestesses. They have a strict division of labor: the males fight and do the hard manual work, while the female rule, cast spells, and tell the males what to do. I still happen to have the non-renegade hobgoblins, where the males fight and do the hard manual work, while the females hunt for their food, and do all sorts of roguish things.
Finding ideas is just a matter of asking what if. What if a plague wiped out 90% of the male dwarves? What if all gnomes were male? What would a tribe of halfling amazons be like?
Exactly -- it's all about the "what if?".
Now, for example, assuming you're using "stock" hobgoblins, you *could* make it that the female-dominated tribes have gained arcane magic -- perhaps an infernal pact to make them into sorceresses, for instance. [That would only heighten the "normal" Hobgoblin aversion to arcane spells]
I know I keep jumping back in here -- but I just wanted to reinforce how much a few small changes (taken to their logical ends) can really change the flavour of a gaming world -- generally without unbalancing it.
Sometimes, all it takes is deciding on that change and then asking why it would be so, and suddenly, you have a whole vibrant set of pre-history and/or creation myths (or both), and the resulting world becomes a vibrant one -- rather than a generic world (which is never helped if the GM thinks of it that way as well. :) )
Well, as I said, if you're trying to make with isolationist (non-human) races, the question becomes "why?" -- answering this can totally alter the flavor of your world and how people react to it.
Just a few examples from the top of my head -- and these are not fully-fleshed out or complete (partially due to time and partially because the "right" answer for you will depend on the flavour you seek):
Were the long-lived races (dwarves, elves, gnomes) just hiding themselves from the primitve, war-like humans - waiting for them to wipe themselves out? If so, what's changed? Have humans shown signs of real civilization, and those races have just started to make contact (after centuries of "study" by sending a few out into the world? Has an external threat risen (a rift? a golbinoid invasion?)
Are these races the "elder" ones, who are suffering from their lower birthrate and the lack of urgency their lifespans afford them -- especially compared to the "mayfly" humans, and have turned isolationist in an attempt to keep their culture(s) "pure"? (This is especially fun if you add in crossbreed races for races other than elf). If so, are there factions within those races who wish to go to war to eliminate the threat? [Or, perhaps, did that already happen, and they've lost and now live on "reservations"?]
Maybe the "elder" races are now being shunned by humans -- maybe, for instance, there was a former empire that kept humans as slaves and used dwarves as administrators/traders [hence the bad blood] -- maybe the elves ruled, or were the noble class, or, in fact, were the race that *could* and did overthrow the empire to liberate humanity (but took terrible losses or committed genocide to do it, and are now off licking their wounds -- especially as a result of a lack of gratitude from humans -- doubly so if said war was against themselves)
Or, maybe, in a similar vein, humans were bred (or magically created) to be the (expendible) troops in wars between elder races -- or by one specific race that held dominance over the others -- and when that empire was (finally) overthrown, it was at a terrible cost (decimating the elder races) and so it's partially due to low numbers, and partially because humans are reminders of that time (or, worse, blamed by some of the older members of those races).
Or, for a change of pace, these normally "elder" races actually newcomers who have come to a world that knew only humans (or humans and halflings) because they're escaping the destruction of their original world? Or, perhaps, the result of some sort of magical cataclysm?
Like I said, possibilities are kind of limited only by your imagination -- the biggest trick to world-building is figuring out how and why a few times, and then (I find, at least), the rest kind of writes itself.
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No problem! If anyone has any more ideas, feel free to post them. It's not like I'm gonna close the thread or anything :P
I kinda was hoping that I would get some more opinions and ideas, actually =)
For your horror campaign:
Base the horror around some dark twist in a known races history.No one knew, they were there, until elves who tried to resettle Celwynian met them and a secret war started.
What if some elves met them before. A small elven village in Celwynian, too close to a dark elven outpost. Hostilities started, the elves were too far from any decent sized elven settlement to even hope for help, so they accepted an offer from a stranger who knew the dark elves and gave them the means to battle them - and entered a faustian pact with an arch devil.
Since then, elves from this settlement do their best to accomodat guests and either corrupt them to bow to the same master or make them decent sacrifices to further blacken their own souls. All this, just to repai the dept taken.
That is not the only example. Similar twists could be done with dwarves, halflings (waht would you do to end your suffering as a slave), gnomes (the first world knows many dark secrets). Without changing much about the common people of standart fantasy races, such adventures can offer a whole new and horrific view on them, if done right.