Just wondering if anybody has thoughts on the best DPR (or best 'killer') amongst equally optimized fighter Archetypes.
I've only compared
Two Weapon Warrior
Two Handed Fighter
Two Handedand TWF Mobile Fighter
Two Handed and TWF Dawnflower Dervish
With everybody having 20Str, Belt of Physical Perfection
All have Gtr Wpn Fcs, Spl, Dazing Assault and Combat Reflexes
Two Weapon Fighting Styles all went up to Gtr TWF
2 Handed went Shatter Defences/Deadly Stroke
Surprisingly there's only a very small DPR difference (varies) on a full attack. TWW wins by a small margin.
When a Move is involved the Dervish/Mobile archetypes are WAY in front. More than double. TWW is last.
Funny thing though. The TWW can pull way ahead of the others from getting AOO'S since he can TWF/REND as a standard action.
He also moves ahead because of more crit chances.
They all can PA/Dazing Assault and lose thelast iterative hit.
An interesting thing I noted from the Dervish, is (not counting Crits) there is no benefit to TWF on a Dervish (DPR is the same) when.you.use lightning strike.
Other thoughts.
They are all good killers. Really it comes down to how your DM tends to set up encounters. If they are tight spaces with little movement then go TWW. For other cases us the most appropriate one. If your DM varies it a lot then take the most versatile.
Absolutely, what my builds showed (and playing in the case of the TWW, and Two Handed Warrior- who was rebuilt as a Dervish BECAUSE of mobile enemies)
is even if you go Dazing Assault (for save or do nothing at11) you should prioritize getting Crits (for spike damage) and getting AOO'S.
Funny thing though. The TWW can pull way ahead of the others from getting AOO'S since he can TWF/REND as a standard action.
He also moves ahead because of more crit chances.Rend only triggers once a round.
You don't have to attack with a one handed weapon on AoOs either just because you are using TWF. At level 13 you could easily afford a glove of storing, so you can switch to THF for the AoOs, reducing the advantage of the two weapon warrior to just 1/2 strength per AoO (mobile/dervish is almost certain to trigger rend as well).
I suggested something similar, using weapon cords, for TWF's like rangers or Cavalier (didn't work since you can't switch weapons)
Can a Glove of Storing, store and retrieve a weapon as a free action?
Certainly would make TWF hurt less for others, who could TWF on full attacks and then 2hand on AOO and standard action attacks.
Edit: Checked the glove. Works. However fighters would be wearing Duelist Gloves :)
Any Other TWF though should DEFINITELY get it. My TWF Scimitar/Kukri Ranger thanks you.
Quickdraw shield works as well.
Also there is the ever cheesy two hander + armor spikes.
I wonder if aHoly Vindicator could use Vindicator's shield on his Quickdraw shield. If he.possessed the Quickdraw feat he could:
Be attacked with Sword and shield in hand (getting the shield+Vindicator's shield AC), then free action sheath it. Attack with his sword 2handed. Quickdraw his shield again.
In fact if it works, EVERY 2hander class should carry said shield and have Quickdraw.
Big Buff to AC. Can still 2hand on all attacks......
Fair enough.
Still those items really have a big impact on the way you fight.
A glove of Storing 'fixes' standard attacks for TWF ranger, Paladins, cavs etc.
1. your turn: free action 'sheathe' weapon into glove. Move in and 2 hand attack.
*Every one else goes. If someone provokes, you 2hand attack them.
2. you are adjacent. 'unsheathe your offhand weapon and full attack. Then sheathe it when finished. Any AOO'S take 2handed.
Also means Treantmonk's switchitter builds no longer have to drop thier bow when they switch.
Heck,
If you didn't mind a little cheese, you could argue a TWF'r could sheath the offhand weapon after his final offhand attack and take his Last primary attack 2handed!!!
Can a Glove of Storing, store and retrieve a weapon as a free action?Wouldn't it have to be an immediate action to use it for an AOO? It's my understanding that free actions can still only be taken during the characters turn.
You can't speak when it's not your turn?
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You can't speak when it's not your turn?Can a Glove of Storing, store and retrieve a weapon as a free action?Wouldn't it have to be an immediate action to use it for an AOO? It's my understanding that free actions can still only be taken during the characters turn.
Actually you can speak when it's not your turn because there's a specific exception in the rules that allows it, but that's beside the point. Activating an item--even when it involves a command word--isn't merely speaking, it's an action of whatever type is specified in the item description, which in this case states "Storing or retrieving the item is a free action" (the "On command. . ." and "With a snap of the fingers. . ." parts are merely fluff). Actions of all types, including free actions, are taken only on the character's own turn unless the rules for that action type clearly state otherwise, as with immediate actions and the aforementioned exception for speaking out of turn.
A quick search turned up this thread in which this is discussed in more detail.
Fair enough.
Still those items really have a big impact on the way you fight.
A glove of Storing 'fixes' standard attacks for TWF ranger, Paladins, cavs etc.
1. your turn: free action 'sheathe' weapon into glove. Move in and 2 hand attack.
*Every one else goes. If someone provokes, you 2hand attack them.
2. you are adjacent. 'unsheathe your offhand weapon and full attack. Then sheathe it when finished. Any AOO'S take 2handed.Also means Treantmonk's switchitter builds no longer have to drop thier bow when they switch.
You don't need to take the free action when its not your turn.
You take your offhand weapon out at the start of your turn- full attack- then put it away at the end of your turn. Any AOO'S when it's not your turn can be two handed, since you've got only your primary weapon out :)
You can't speak when it's not your turn?Can a Glove of Storing, store and retrieve a weapon as a free action?Wouldn't it have to be an immediate action to use it for an AOO? It's my understanding that free actions can still only be taken during the characters turn.Actually you can speak when it's not your turn because there's a specific exception in the rules that allows it, but that's beside the point. Activating an item--even when it involves a command word--isn't merely speaking, it's an action of whatever type is specified in the item description, which in this case states "Storing or retrieving the item is a free action" (the "On command. . ." and "With a snap of the fingers. . ." parts are merely fluff). Actions of all types, including free actions, are taken only on the character's own turn unless the rules for that action type clearly state otherwise, as with immediate actions and the aforementioned exception for speaking out of turn.
A quick search turned up this thread in which this is discussed in more detail.
Hah, learn something new every day. :)
Thanks for the link.