Under the ready an action portion it says that you can ready an action as a standard action. It also says that you can ready a standard, move, swift or free action.
My question is if you ready your action for something that would be an attack action, can you use a free action at that point?
Example from our session last night.
The party is being attacked by an wraith. Since it is incorporeal, it is attacking through the ground (50% miss chance), but after its attacks the group is unable to attack it. The barbarian readies an attack action to attack the wraith if it attacks any of the party members in reach. The wraith is about to attack, triggering the readied action. The barbarian seeks to rage and take their attack, but as this was a readied action, I ruled that only the attack action was readied...and not the free action as well.
So...can you ready a move or attack action and perform a free action along with that readied action during the triggered portion of readied action?
I would say that you handled this situation correctly. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe that you can only take a free action on your turn, and performing a readied action that was triggered does not really happens during "your" turn.
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So...can you ready a move or attack action and perform a free action along with that readied action during the triggered portion of readied action?
You handled it correctly. The barbarian could, on his turn, rage for free then ready to attack the incorporeal. But, during the readied action he gets one std, move, free, or swift. Not two.
There is a 3.5 feat (instantaneous rage, maybe?) that allows raging at any time or some similar language.
While you can 5' step in limited circumstances during a readied action, this isn't the same thing. A 5' step is not a free action at all. 5' step is not an action.
Incorporeal creatures attacking from within a solid object must emerge in order to attack. When they do so they can see normally and no longer have 50% miss chance. However they have cover.
Free actions can be taken as part of another action; even a readied action.
I would have allowed the barbarian to rage as part of the readied attack.
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Incorporeal creatures attacking from within a solid object must emerge in order to attack. When they do so they can see normally and no longer have 50% miss chance. However they have cover.
Free actions can be taken as part of another action; even a readied action.
I would have allowed the barbarian to rage as part of the readied attack.
An incorporeal can stay in an object and attack. Doing so is vs. total concealment (the target of the incorporeal has 50% miss); attacking this weay gives the incorporeal cover. Or, an incorporeal can come out of the object, thus negating the concealment if it attacks, but also meaning it gets no cover. The incorporeal doesn't have to emerge, but while it is attacking, part of it is out and can be attacked.
Free actions can be taken while taking other actions. While I understand this to mean "in addition to taking other actions (the free action doesn't count against taking std and move," there are many who understand this to mean "in the midst of doing another action." Regardless, a readied action allows the preparation of a single action. That single action, in itself, might be a free action. I think it ignores the entire concept of the readied action's limitations to suggest that, once performing the readied action, a character can tack on a bunch of free actions. One certainly cannot ready to both attack and and rage (that's two readied actions), so is it reasonable to then permit a readied attack...and while you're at it, rage, etc.
Free actions seem to have migrated over time to be a non-action. In some cases, some now have internalized them as non-actions that can be done at any time. The original idea is that it is something that doesn't take away the move or standard action. In any case, YMMV.
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The barbarian readies an attack action to attack the wraith if it attacks any of the party members in reach. The wraith is about to attack, triggering the readied action. The barbarian seeks to rage and take their attack, but as this was a readied action, I ruled that only the attack action was readied...and not the free action as well.
BTW, while we're talking largely about whether he could rage as well as attack in the readied action, there is another aspect to this. It this was the player's intent, the rule about when he can rage shouldn't stop him from doing so. Surprising him with a rules mechanic is to no one's advantage. He most certainly CAN rage as free action during his turn, then ready to attack; he would then be raging when making his attack. If he was trying to conserve rage, that's another story. But if the two of you just had a different idea of when he can rage, I would let it go, provide instruction for how to do it next time, and move on.
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An incorporeal can stay in an object and attack. Doing so is vs. total concealment (the target of the incorporeal has 50% miss); attacking this weay gives the incorporeal cover. Or, an incorporeal can come out of the object, thus negating the concealment if it attacks, but also meaning it gets no cover. The incorporeal doesn't have to emerge, but while it is attacking, part of it is out and can be attacked.
Free actions can be taken while taking other actions. While I understand this to mean "in addition to taking other actions (the free action doesn't count against taking std and move," there are many who understand this to mean "in the midst of doing another action." Regardless, a readied action allows the preparation of a single action. That single action, in itself, might be a free action. I think it ignores the entire concept of the readied action's limitations to suggest that, once performing the readied action, a character can tack on a bunch of free actions. One certainly cannot ready to both attack and and rage (that's two readied actions), so is it reasonable to then permit a readied attack...and while you're at it, rage, etc.
I fail to see your reasoning.
[A] Is for situations when two incorporeal creatures fight one another within a solid object.
[B] In order to attack normally, an incorporeal creature has to emege and thus no longer treats opponents as concealed and it loses its total cover.
As for free actions you are not refering to actual rules.
Free Actions
Free actions don’t take any time at all, though there may
be limits to the number of free actions you can perform
in a turn. Free actions rarely incur attacks of opportunity.
Some common free actions are described below.
Cease Concentration on Spell
You can stop concentrating on a spell as a free action.
Drop an Item
Dropping an item in your space or into an adjacent square
is a free action.
Drop Prone
Dropping to a prone position in your space is a free action.
Speak
In general, speaking is a free action that you can perform
even when it isn’t your turn. Speaking more than a few
sentences is generally beyond the limit of a free action.
I don't see the relation between this text and your understanding of free actions.
By your interpretation you would deny a character who readies an action to attack the ability to also shout a warning (or make any other free action for that matter) prior to/simultaneously/after conducting the attack. I don't see that supported by the rules.|
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Free actions can be taken while taking other actions. While I understand this to mean "in addition to taking other actions (the free action doesn't count against taking std and move," there are many who understand this to mean "in the midst of doing another action." Regardless, a readied action allows the preparation of a single action. That single action, in itself, might be a free action. I think it ignores the entire concept of the readied action's limitations to suggest that, once performing the readied action, a character can tack on a bunch of free actions. One certainly cannot ready to both attack and and rage (that's two readied actions), so is it reasonable to then permit a readied attack...and while you're at it, rage, etc.
I fail to see your reasoning.
As for free actions you are not refering to actual rules.
I don't see the relation between this text and your understanding of free actions.
I'm not referring to actual rules. I'm referring to a synthesis of what free actions are and how they relate to readied actions. What is it about what I have said that you disagree with?
By your interpretation you would deny a character who readies an action to attack the ability to also shout a warning (or make any other free action for that matter) prior to/simultaneously/after conducting the attack. I don't see that supported by the rules.
No, I wouldn't, so please don't put words in my mouth. Speaking, explicitly, is a free action that can be used when not your turn. Other free actions take place during your turn or as a readied action. Readying a free action is another explicit way to exercise a free action outside your turn, albeit in a grey "who's turn is it?" phase.
Unfortunately the question isn't about can but should. I hate when as a player you ready an action and the DM metagames his actions based on what you just said. IE I ready an action to attack a creature that comes into my reach. Even though the creatures been attacking me for the past x number of rounds all of a sudden it switches targets? That's a d!ck DM move. Or I ready my spear to brace against a charge but all of a sudden charging ememies stop charging. Again a d!ck DM move. But conversely as a DM I hate when players try to conserve resources or retcon actions because they failed to alert the DM. IE The Barbarian could have said I ready an action to rage and attack when the wraith materializes. That would have solved the issue in my opinion. I personally think it was a player brain fart. But I suggested in my group that when you ready an action you write it down and then when it goes off you give the DM what was written. That way he can't metagame what you wrote and you are forced to write down exactly what you readied and if in the DM's opinion it didn't satisfy the requirement the readied action is lost.
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Unfortunately the question isn't about can but should. I hate when as a player you ready an action and the DM metagames his actions based on what you just said. IE I ready an action to attack a creature that comes into my reach. Even though the creatures been attacking me for the past x number of rounds all of a sudden it switches targets? That's a d!ck DM move. Or I ready my spear to brace against a charge but all of a sudden charging ememies stop charging. Again a d!ck DM move. But conversely as a DM I hate when players try to conserve resources or retcon actions because they failed to alert the DM. IE The Barbarian could have said I ready an action to rage and attack when the wraith materializes. That would have solved the issue in my opinion. I personally think it was a player brain fart. But I suggested in my group that when you ready an action you write it down and then when it goes off you give the DM what was written. That way he can't metagame what you wrote and you are forced to write down exactly what you readied and if in the DM's opinion it didn't satisfy the requirement the readied action is lost.
If the GM is metagaming the critters, that's a problem, same as if the players do. However, I tend to think that a readied action is apparent to the creatures who see it; it might require a check to know, and if so that is a matter of playing style. Sense Motive is a reasonable skill to use if playing this way. Players retconning actions is also a problem, albeit of a different nature. Getting surprised by a different understanding of the rules, though, shouldn't happen. Edit: I have told players new to my group, or new to gaming, that I make the commitment to them that they won't be screwed by our different understanding of the rules, or their lack of rules knowledge. Teaching players how to play, and incorporating new players into the game, is an ongoing process of play that all GMs should expect and embrace.
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Unfortunately the question isn't about can but should. I hate when as a player you ready an action and the DM metagames his actions based on what you just said. IE I ready an action to attack a creature that comes into my reach. Even though the creatures been attacking me for the past x number of rounds all of a sudden it switches targets? That's a d!ck DM move. Or I ready my spear to brace against a charge but all of a sudden charging ememies stop charging. Again a d!ck DM move. But conversely as a DM I hate when players try to conserve resources or retcon actions because they failed to alert the DM. IE The Barbarian could have said I ready an action to rage and attack when the wraith materializes. That would have solved the issue in my opinion. I personally think it was a player brain fart. But I suggested in my group that when you ready an action you write it down and then when it goes off you give the DM what was written. That way he can't metagame what you wrote and you are forced to write down exactly what you readied and if in the DM's opinion it didn't satisfy the requirement the readied action is lost.
I like that idea.
Unfortunately the question isn't about can but should. I hate when as a player you ready an action and the DM metagames his actions based on what you just said. IE I ready an action to attack a creature that comes into my reach. Even though the creatures been attacking me for the past x number of rounds all of a sudden it switches targets? That's a d!ck DM move. Or I ready my spear to brace against a charge but all of a sudden charging ememies stop charging. Again a d!ck DM move. But conversely as a DM I hate when players try to conserve resources or retcon actions because they failed to alert the DM. IE The Barbarian could have said I ready an action to rage and attack when the wraith materializes. That would have solved the issue in my opinion. I personally think it was a player brain fart. But I suggested in my group that when you ready an action you write it down and then when it goes off you give the DM what was written. That way he can't metagame what you wrote and you are forced to write down exactly what you readied and if in the DM's opinion it didn't satisfy the requirement the readied action is lost.I like that idea.
Not a bad idea, as long as the player writes down is readied action BEFORE the beginning of his turn.