Okay, I've jaunted through the Archives and seen the absolute horror that is the debate about Hide in Plain Sight and the rules concerning it. I've done quite a bit of reading and come no closer to an answer as to what defines Dim light or Shadow in relation to this supernatural ability.
As I understand it James Jacobs wrote:
The wording for those two is different because the categorization of lighting in Pathfinder was a relatively late to the game refinement, and we weren't able to standardize every mention of illumination in the game. The assassin's a good example.
In any case, the intent is the same: dim light = shadow. So both of these abilities should work exactly the same, even though the words chosen aren't identical.
My questions is simply this: Does Hide in Plain Sight work in shadows (as in shadows created by people walking in light, absence of light etc.) or only work in that hazy area outside a light source before it is swallowed by the the darkness?
My questions is simply this: Does Hide in Plain Sight work in shadows (as in shadows created by people walking in light, absence of light etc.) or only work in that hazy area outside a light source before it is swallowed by the the darkness?
I assume you're talking specifically about the assassin's and shadowdancer's hide in plain sight (the ranger's hide in plain sight is extraordinary and has nothing to do with shadows).
If you look between the two definitions, you'll notice some different words. . .
As long as he is within 10 feet of some sort of shadow, an assassin can hide himself from view in the open without having anything to actually hide behind.
As long as she is within 10 feet of an area of dim light, a shadowdancer can hide herself from view in the open without anything to actually hide behind.
The quote you mentioned above says those two terms are identical. So "some sort of shadow" is "an area of dim light".
Both of the things you mention are also the same thing. . . .
Well there's the fun part of two shadowdancers next to each other. They can then hide in each other's shadows.
If it is referring to mundane shadows, rather than the concelament-granting dim light, than shadowdancers will be ablet to use HiPS anywhere.
Unless you are standing ALONE in a Matrix styled white "abyss" or in a pitch dark room, there is going to be a shadow somewhere within 10 feet of you--even if it is just that from a blade of grass.
I've seen people, under this interpretation, roll a marble or a coin across a stretch of populated hallway, using readied actions to move along with it's shadow via HiPS as they did so.
Heck, if there are enough people in the hallway, youwouldn't need to roll anything. Just use their shadows. If there are people every 10 feet you could literally go from one end of a brightly lit crowded room to the other without being spotted.
I very much doubt that was the developer's intent.
As such, I believe "they mean the same thing" to mean "they both refer to concealment-granting dim light."
Short of Full light, with no other objects or creatures there will, by definition, be shadows somewhere.
Of course this is also true for complete absence of light, but the nature of that would mean you don't need HIPS anyway.
Short of Full light, with no other objects or creatures there will, by definition, be shadows somewhere.
Of course this is also true for complete absence of light, but the nature of that would mean you don't need HIPS anyway.
That's what I said Tiny Coffee Golem.
That's what I said Tiny Coffee Golem.Short of Full light, with no other objects or creatures there will, by definition, be shadows somewhere.
Of course this is also true for complete absence of light, but the nature of that would mean you don't need HIPS anyway.
oops. sorry. must have missed that.
Here is my take on things.
I've tried to be both meticulous and readable.