Just a suggestion, I felt that could be good for the flavor to give the PC a choice among LG and NG.
...
Piedalin!
Replace Summoned Mount with Eidolon!
OK, posting 2 new MC Archetypes. The first is a collaboration based on carmanbeck's Divine Duelist (Paladin/Rogue) suggested in another thread.
The other is my Venom Blade (Rogue/Alchemist).
The divine duelist has been charged by her church with the task of seeking out evil and defeating it in the noble ways of single combat. Trained in combat techniques that rely more on agility than brawn, the divine duelist combines the divine power granted her by her deity with the quick blade attacks of her dueling heritage.
Primary Class: Paladin.
Secondary Class: Rogue.
Alignment: Any good.
Hit Dice: d10.
Save Bonus: +2 Reflex.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The divine duelist selects six rogue skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal paladin class skills. The divine duelist gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + her Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Divine duelists are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, and with light armor, but not with shields.
Duelist's Reactions: At 1st level, the divine duelist gains Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat.
Beguiling Smite (Ex): At 2nd level, the divine duelist can distract an evil opponent with a flourish of movements. As a move action, the divine duelist can make a feint maneuver against the target of her smite evil that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. At 8th level, when the divine duelist makes a feint maneuver against the target of her smite evil, the target is denied its Dexterity bonus until the end of the divine duelist's turn.
At 11th level, the divine duelist may sacrifice her first attack (at the highest base attack bonus) to make a feint attempt as part of a full attack action. At 16th level, whenever the divine duelist makes an Acrobatic check to move at least 10 feet, she provokes no attack of opportunity and can make a feint maneuver against the target of her smite evil as part of that move action. In addition, the divine duelist gains a bonus equal to her divine duelist level on any Bluff checks she makes when using this ability. This ability replaces lay on hands.
Evasion (Ex): This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name. This ability, uncanny dodge, and improved uncanny dodge replace the paladin’s spellcasting ability.
Rite: At 3rd level, and every three levels thereafter, a divine duelist can select one rite. Anytime the target of the divine duelist’s smite evil is denied its Dex bonus to AC, she may add any one rite that she knows to her smite attack as an immediate action. These effects are in addition to the divine duelist’s normal smite damage. This ability replaces mercy. The divine duelist may choose from the following rites:
Bleeding Attack: The divine duelist can cause the target to bleed. This attack causes the target to take a number of additional points of damage each round equal to the divine duelist’s Charisma modifier (eg. a Charisma modifier of +4 equal 4 points of bleed). The bleeding target takes that amount of damage every round at the start of each of its turns. The bleeding can be stopped by a DC 15 Heal check or the application of any effect that heals hit point damage.
Defensive Attack: The divine duelist gains a +2 bonus to her Armor Class and saving throws against the target’s attacks. This bonus increases to +4 at 12th level, and +6 at 18th level. She is also treated as having the Mobility feat when provoking attacks of opportunity from the target. These benefits remain in effect until the end of her next turn. The divine duelist must be at least 6th level to select this rite.
Disarming Attack: The divine duelist may attempt to disarm the target of her smite evil without provoking an attack of opportunity. If she is trained in Sleight of Hand, she may use that check in place of her CMB. The divine duelist gains a +4 bonus on her disarm check when attempting this maneuver.
Disorienting Attack: The divine duelist may attempt to tumble through the target’s space by making an Acrobatics check. If successful, she gains a +2 circumstance bonus on attack rolls against the target until the start of her next turn. If she chooses to make a trip attempt against the target instead, she gains a +4 circumstance bonus on her combat maneuver check. This bonus on trip also lasts until the start of her next turn. The divine duelist must be at least 6th level to select this rite.
Dispelling Attack: The divine duelist can affect the target as if she had cast dispel magic, using the targeted dispel option. Use her divine duelist level as the caster level of the dispel magic effect. At 12th level, the dispelling attack functions as if she had cast greater dispel magic.
Knock-Out Attack: The divine duelist can forgo her smite damage to attempt to knock out her target. She must declare the use of knock-out blow before she makes the attack. If the attack hits, it deals normal damage instead of smite damage and the target falls unconscious for 1d4 rounds. A successful Fortitude save reduces this effect to staggered for 1 round. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the divine duelist’s level + the divine duelist’s Intelligence modifier. The divine duelist must be at least 12th level to select this rite.
Martial Attack: The divine duelist treats her attack and damage rolls against the target as if she had the Critical Focus feat.
Positioning Attack: The divine duelist can move up to 30 feet without provoking attacks of opportunity. The movement must end in a space adjacent to the target of her smite evil.
Pushing Attack: The divine duelist can make a CMB roll against her target’s CMD in an attempt to push it back 5 feet. She gains a +4 to her CMB when attempting this maneuver, and does not provoke an attack of opportunity.
Slowing Attack: The divine duelist slows the target of her smite evil with a precise blow. The target’s speed is reduced by 10 feet and cannot make attacks of opportunity for a number of rounds equal to 1/2 the divine duelist's Charisma modifier, rounded down. The divine duelist must be at least 6th level to select this rite.
Tactical Attack: The divine duelist gains a bonus to her CMD equal to her Charisma modifier when defending against bull rush, disarm, grapple, overrun, and trip combat maneuvers directed at her by the target. This bonus remains until the end of her next turn.
Righteous Strike (Ex): Starting at 4th level, whenever the target of the divine duelist’s smite evil is denied its Dex bonus to AC or is flat-footed, she can strike the target in a vulnerable spot for extra damage. Each day she can use this ability a number of times equal to 1/2 her divine duelist level plus her Charisma modifier. This extra damage is 1d6 at 4th level, and increases by 1d6 every three divine duelist levels thereafter, to a maximum of 6d6 at 19th level. This ability replaces channel positive energy.
Uncanny Dodge (Ex): This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name. This ability, evasion, and improved uncanny dodge replace the paladin’s spellcasting ability.
Aura of Acuity (Su): At 11th level, the divine duelist is blessed with divine awareness that allows her to more effectively protect her vital areas during combat. When a critical hit, sneak attack, or other form of precision attack is scored on the divine duelist, there is a 25% chance that the critical hit, sneak attack, or precision damage is negated and damage is instead rolled normally. This chance of negating such attacks increases to 50% at 15th level, and 75% at 19th level. This ability functions only while the divine duelist is conscious and able to move, not if she is unconscious, paralyzed, or dead. This ability replaces aura of justice.
Improved Uncanny Dodge (Ex): This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name. This ability, evasion, and uncanny dodge replace the paladin’s spellcasting ability.
Dueling Champion: At 20th level, whenever the a divine duelist makes a smite evil or righteous strike that drops the target of her smite evil to 0 or fewer hit points, she can make a single melee attack using her highest base attack bonus against a number of other opponents within reach equal to her Charisma modifier. As an immediate action, she can choose a new target for her smite evil without being required to expend another use of smite evil. In addition, the deflection bonus to her AC against attacks made by the target of her smite is applied to any attacks made by another opponent that she has successfully hit with this ability, until the end of her next turn.
Table: Divine Duelist
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special
1st +1 +2 +2 +2 Aura of good, detect evil, duelist reactions, smite evil 1/day
2nd +2 +3 +2 +3 Beguiling smite, divine grace, evasion
3rd +3 +3 +3 +3 Aura of courage, divine health, rite
4th +4 +4 +3 +4 Righteous strike, smite evil 2/day
5th +5 +4 +3 +4 Divine bond (weapon only), evasion
6th +6/+1 +5 +4 +5 Rite, uncanny dodge
7th +7/+2 +5 +4 +5 Smite evil 3/day
8th +8/+3 +6 +4 +6 Aura of resolve
9th +9/+4 +6 +5 +6 Rite
10th +10/+5 +7 +5 +7 Smite evil 4/day
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +5 +7 Aura of acuity
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +6 +8 Rite, improved uncanny dodge
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +6 +8 Smite evil 5/day
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +6 +9 Aura of faith
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +7 +9 Rite
16th +16/+11/+7/+2 +10 +7 +10 Smite evil 6/day
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +7 +10 Aura of righteousness
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +8 +11 Rite
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +8 +11 Smite evil 7/day
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +8 +12 Dueling champion
Rogues tend to be the most skilled and cunning of those who walk the paths of the underworld. Occasionally however, a rogue will delve into the practice of other arts in an attempt to enhance their expertise; a venom blade is such as these. By fusing inherent stealth and agility with the alchemical knowledge and toxicology of the alchemist, the venom blade transforms himself into the very embodiment of the most virulent poisons. Over time, the body of a venom blade becomes suffused with toxins to such a degree that his blood, even his very touch becomes toxic to those around him. As a living source of deadly poison, the venom blade is viewed by many as a truly formidable and fearsome foe.
Primary Class: Rogue.
Secondary Class: Alchemist.
Alignment: Any.
Hit Dice: d8
Save Bonus: +2 Fortitude.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The venom blade can select six alchemist skills to add to his list of class skills, in addition to normal rogue class skills. The venom blade gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 8 + Int.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Venom blades are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow, and short sword. They proficient with light armor, but not with shields.
Alchemy (Ex): Unlike other alchemists, venom blades are masters of creating poisons of all kinds, whether they are of a plant, animal, or alchemical base. Because of this narrow focus, a venom blade cannot use his Craft (alchemy) to create other alchemical items, bombs, extracts, or mutatgens of any kind. Poisons can be made using Craft (alchemy). The DC to make a poison is equal to its Fortitude save DC. Rolling a natural 1 on a Craft skill check while making a poison exposes the venom blade to the poison. A venom blade can create any poison listed in Table 16–2: Sample Poisons on page 559 of the Core Rulebook, if he has acquired the appropriate components for an individual poison.
Venom blades with the poison use class feature do not risk poisoning themselves when using Craft to make poison. When using his Craft (alchemy) to create a poison, a venom blade gains a competence bonus equal to his class level on the Craft (alchemy) check. In addition, a venom blade can use Craft (alchemy) to identify poisons or poisonous plants as if using detect poison. He must hold the poison filled vial or study the plant for 1 round to make such a check. This ability replaces trapfinding.
Sneak Attack: This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name. The extra damage dealt increases by +1d6 at 1s level and every three levels thereafter, to a maximum of +7d6 at 17th level. Sneak attack bonuses from multiple sources stack.
Poison Resistance (Ex): At 2nd level, a venom blade gains a +2 bonus on all saving throws against poison. This bonus increases to +4 at 4th level, and then again to +6 at 6th level. At 8th level, a venom blade becomes completely immune to poison. This ability replaces trap sense.
Poison Use (Ex): At 2nd level, a venom blade is trained in the use of poison and cannot accidentally poison himself when applying poison to a blade. This ability replaces rogue talent at 2nd level.
Master Poisoner (Ex): At 3rd level, a venom blade can use Craft (alchemy) to change the type of a poison. This requires 1 hour of work with an alchemist’s lab and a Craft (alchemy) skill check with a DC equal to the poison’s DC. If successful, the poison’s type changes to contact, ingested, inhaled, or injury. If the check fails, the poison is ruined. The venom blade also receives a bonus on Craft (alchemy) skill checks when working with poison equal to 1/2 his venom blade level. This ability replaces evasion.
Talents: At 3rd level, and again every two levels thereafter, a venom blade gains either a rogue talent for which he qualifies or one of the following rogue abilities: evasion, uncanny dodge, and improved uncanny dodge. A venom blade must select evasion before she can select uncanny dodge, and uncanny dodge before selecting improved uncanny dodge. At 13th level, the venom blade can choose advanced rogue talents whenever he could choose a rogue talent. In the case of the improved evasion talent, the venom blade must have evasion to select it. In addition, a venom blade can select one of the following alchemist discoveries in place of a rogue talent or ability: concentrate poison*, dilution* (poisons only), enhance poison (see below), extend poison (see below), and sticky poison*. A venom blade treats his level as his rogue or alchemist level for the purpose of qualifying for talents and discoveries with level-dependent requirements and calculating the effects of any talent, rogue ability, or discovery he's chosen. (*Advanced Player’s Guide, †Ultimate Combat)
Merged Poison: At 5th level, the venom blade can merge two different ingested type poisons into one. When the poisons are ingested, both poisons take effect. The newly merged poison has a save DC two points higher than the poison with highest DC used in the merging. At 8th level, the venom blade can merge two injury type poisons. At 13th level, a venom blade can merge two contact poisons. This ability replaces uncanny dodge.
Swift Poisoning (Ex): At 5th level, a venom blade can apply a dose of poison to a weapon as a swift action. This replaces rogue talent at 8th level.
Venom Skin (Ex): Starting at 8th level, due to constant exposure to toxins, a venom blade’s body becomes suffused with poison. Any creature that bites, engulfs, or swallows the venom blade must make a Fortitude saving throw or be sickened for 1d4 rounds. At 11th level, any creature that bites, engulfs, or swallows the venom blade must make a Fortitude saving throw or be nauseated for 1d4 rounds instead. At 14th level, any creature that bites, engulfs, or swallows the venom blade must make a Fortitude saving throw or take 1d2 Con damage instead of becoming nauseated. This Con damage increases to 1d3 at 17th level, and 1d4 at 20th level (see Secondary Effect in the Blood Venom entry below). This ability is similar to the alchemist’s nauseating flesh discovery found on page 24 of Ultimate Combat.
Also beginning at 8th level, the venom blade can apply one dose of his blood to a weapon as an injury type poison called blood venom. He can extract a single dose of his blood by inflicting a slashing or piercing wound to himself that deals 1d3 damage. Once extracted, a dose of blood venom remains potent for 1 day before spoiling. As the venom blade increases in level, his blood venom becomes more potent (see the Blood Venom poison entry below). At 14th level, this blood venom becomes a contact poison. Creatures that engage in combat with the venom blade using slashing or piercing weapons (including natural weapons) have a 10% cumulative chance of being poisoned by the venom blade’s blood for each consecutive round of combat. The venom blade does not suffer any effects from his poisonous blood or skin. This ability replaces sneak attack +2d6, +5d6, and +8d6.
Blood Antidote (Ex): At 9th level, a venom blade can use 1 dose of blood venom to create 1 dose of antidote that functions like delay poison. This requires 1 hour of work with an alchemist’s lab and a Craft (alchemy) skill check with a DC equal to his blood venom’s DC. Unlike blood venom, an antidote, once created, remains potent until used. This is due to the change it undergoes to its chemical make-up. At 12th level, 1 dose of antidote functions as neutralize poison. A venom blade can only have a number of antidotes in existence at any given time equal to his 1/2 his venom blade level. This ability can be used a number of times per day equal to the venom blade’s Intelligence modifier. This ability replaces improved uncanny dodge.
Persistent Poison (Ex): At 14th level, the set amount of time component of a poison’s frequency increases to the next higher time interval (rounds increase to minutes, minutes to hours, hours to days, etc.). This requires 1 hour of work with an alchemist’s lab and a Craft (alchemy) skill check with a DC equal to poison’s Fortitude save DC. If the poison does not have a set amount of time, this ability has no effect. This ability can be applied to the venom blade’s own blood venom. This ability replaces rogue talent at 14th level.
Venom Bile (Ex): Venom Bile (Ex): At 17th level, the body of a venom blade is further suffused with poison. The venom blade can regurgitate and spew a line of poisonous bile up to 10 feet, as a move action. Any creature hit by the bile must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 the venom blade’s level + the venom blade’s Constitution modifier) or be afflicted by blood venom. In addition, the venom blade can expend one daily use of this ability to apply blood venom poison to a weapon by licking the blade as a swift action. The venom blade can use this ability a number of times per day equal to his Constitution modifier. This ability replaces rogue talent at 20th level.
Venom Strike (Ex): At 20th level, a venom blade is so suffused with poison that he can secrete it from his very pores. The venom blade gains a poisonous touch that has the same effect as his current form of blood venom. Also, the venom blade has such perfect control over his body that he can secrete any previous form of his blood venom he chooses. Changing the current form of his blood venom to a previous form requires 1 round and the venom blade to make a Will save against the minimum DC of the form of blood venom he desires to secrete. For example, a venom blade with a Constitution score of 14 that wants to secrete the previous sickening form of his blood venom would have to make a successful DC 16 Will save. If the Will save fails the blood venom retains its current form. A venom blade can change his blood venom from a previous form back to its current form as a standard action. The physical appearance of how the venom blade generates and delivers his poisonous touch varies from venom blade to venom blade.
In addition, a venom blade can use his poison touch to apply 1 dose of any form of blood venom he has in effect to a weapon that is already in his hands as a swift action. This ability replaces master strike.
Rogue Talents: The following rogue talents complement the venom blade multiclass archetype: befuddling strike*, bleeding attack, fast stealth, iron guts†, lasting poison*, resiliency, surprise attack, or swift poison*. (*Advanced Player’s Guide, †Ultimate Combat)
Advanced Talents: The following advanced rogue talents complement the venom blade multiclass archetype: crippling strike, deadly cocktail*, hide in plain sight†, or improved evasion. (*Advanced Player’s Guide, †Ultimate Combat)
Discoveries
The following new discoveries can be taken by any alchemist or venom blade who meets the prerequisites.
Enhance Poison: A number of times per day equal to his Intelligence modifier, the alchemist can increase any poison that deals hit point or ability score damage by one damage die. For example, a poison that deals 1d3 hit point damage can be enhanced to deal 1d4 damage, or one that deals 1 Con damage can be enhanced to deal 1d2 Con damage. Any poison with an effect of unconscious, paralyzed, or confused cannot be enhanced in this manner. If the poison has both a damage and condition effect, only the damage effect can be enhanced.
Extend Poison: A number of times per day equal to his Intelligence modifier, the alchemist can increase the set amount of time of any poison’s frequency to twice its normal duration. For example, a poison with a frequency of 1/round for six rounds can be increased to 1/round for 12 rounds.
Poisons
The following new poison is found suffused within the very flesh and blood of the venom blade multiclass archetype.
BLOOD VENOM
Type poison, injury (contact at 14th level); Save DC 10 + 1/2 the venom blade’s level + the venom blade’s Constitution modifier
Frequency 1/round for 6 rounds
Initial Effect 1d6 hit point damage (1d8 at 11th level, 1d10 at 14th level, 2d6 at 17th level, 2d8 at 20th level); Secondary Effect sicken (nauseate at 11th level, 1d2 Con at 14th level, 1d3 Con at 17th level, 1d4 Con at 20th level); Cure 1 save (2 consecutive saves at 14th level)
Table: Venom Blade
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special
1st +0 +2 +2 +0 Alchemy, sneak attack +1d6
2nd +1 +2 +3 +0 Poison resistance +2, poison use
3rd +2 +3 +3 +1 Master poisoner, talents
4th +3 +3 +4 +1 Poison resistance +4, sneak attack +2d6
5th +3 +3 +4 +1 Merged poison, Swift poisoning
6th +4 +4 +5 +2 poison resistance +6, talents
7th +5 +4 +5 +2 Sneak attack +3d6
8th +6/+1 +4 +6 +2 Poison immunity, venom skin (sickening)
9th +6/+1 +5 +6 +3 Blood antidote (delay poison), talents
10th +7/+2 +5 +7 +3 Sneak attack +4d6
11th +8/+3 +5 +7 +3 Venom skin (nauseating)
12th +9/+4 +6 +8 +4 Blood antidote (neutralize poison), talents
13th +9/+4 +6 +8 +4 Sneak attack +5d6
14th +10/+5 +6 +9 +4 Persistent poison, venom skin (ability damage)
15th +11/+6/+1 +7 +9 +5 Talents
16th +12/+7/+2 +7 +10 +5 Sneak attack +6d6
17th +12/+7/+2 +7 +10 +5 Venom bile
18th +13/+8/+3 +8 +11 +6 Talents
19th +14/+9/+4 +8 +11 +6 Sneak attack +7d6
20th +15/+10/+5 +8 +12 +6 Venom strike
Also looking for a final version of the Trick Blade. Or did we finalize it?
At some point, once I work out all the issues (I know what you two are going through with the Mirror Blade and Burlesque Warden) I'll post my Rogue/Summoner archetype. Pretty much summons a shadow self that can be used as a flanking buddy. I may or may not have him have a twin shadow. Maybe not. not sure. We'll see. Another archetypemight catch my attention.
Dual Sneak Attack. Yikes.
I'm wondering if righteous strike is OP? Or maybe not.
It currently reads...
Righteous Strike (Ex): Starting at 4th level, whenever the target of the divine duelist’s smite evil is denied its Dex bonus to AC or is flat-footed, she can strike the target in a vulnerable spot for extra damage. Each day she can use this ability a number of times equal to 1/2 her divine duelist level plus her Charisma modifier. This extra damage is 1d6 at 4th level, and increases by 1d6 every three divine duelist levels thereafter, to a maximum of 6d6 at 19th level. This ability replaces channel positive energy.
AS it stands it:
1) can be used in conjunction with smite evil, IF the target is denied Dex/flat-footed
2) can ONLY be used against a target of smite evil
3) limited to 6d6 and replaces channel positive energy
4) usable only 1/2 level + Cha
SO the question is, is it nerfed/restricted enough not to become too nasty? I don't think allowing sneak attack (against anyone) and smite evil would be good.
Here's the options if it's too nasty.
1) any righteous strike damage is in place of normal smite damage, and is till restricted to only the target of a smite.
OR
2) have righteous strike usable against anyone, but can't be used against the target of a smite, since smite damage would then override RS damage.
Any thoughts or comments? cartmanbeck, this was your baby, what do you think? Purplefixer? I think everything else wshould be balanced.
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I'm wondering if righteous strike is OP? Or maybe not.
It currently reads...
Righteous Strike (Ex): Starting at 4th level, whenever the target of the divine duelist’s smite evil is denied its Dex bonus to AC or is flat-footed, she can strike the target in a vulnerable spot for extra damage. Each day she can use this ability a number of times equal to 1/2 her divine duelist level plus her Charisma modifier. This extra damage is 1d6 at 4th level, and increases by 1d6 every three divine duelist levels thereafter, to a maximum of 6d6 at 19th level. This ability replaces channel positive energy.
AS it stands it:
1) can be used in conjunction with smite evil, IF the target is denied Dex/flat-footed
2) can ONLY be used against a target of smite evil
3) limited to 6d6 and replaces channel positive energy
4) usable only 1/2 level + ChaSO the question is, is it nerfed/restricted enough not to become too nasty? I don't think allowing sneak attack (against anyone) and smite evil would be good.
Here's the options if it's too nasty.
1) any righteous strike damage is in place of normal smite damage, and is till restricted to only the target of a smite.
OR
2) have righteous strike usable against anyone, but can't be used against the target of a smite, since smite damage would then override RS damage.
Any thoughts or comments? cartmanbeck, this was your baby, what do you think? Purplefixer? I think everything else wshould be balanced.
I think the fact that it requires that they lose their Dex bonus to AC, instead of also being able to use it when flanking, makes a big enough nerf that it'll be fine.
Edit: In fact, I think we should modify the Paladin's code of conduct such that they cannot gain the benefits of flanking ever (though they could still provide flanking for another teammate), given the "duelist" character concept.Think about it, this means that the only times he'll be able to use the extra damage is either in the surprise round or after feinting, basically, and no matter how you do the feinting you're either giving up an attack in a full attack action or you're only getting a single attack after the feint. I think it's pretty fair.
Let's do a quick damage comparison:
Straight Paladin, level 6, Str 18, Dex 10, Cha 16, Medium Longsword:
-Two attacks, against smite evil target:
--Attack rolls: 1d20 + 6,1(BAB) + 4(Str) + 3(Cha) = Avg 23(1st),18(2nd)
--Damage roll: 1d8 + 4(Str) + 6(Lvl) = Avg 14(x2) = 28 if both hit
Divine Duelist, level 6, Str 14, Dex 18, Cha 14, Medium Rapier:
-Feint as a move action, then attack, against smite evil target:
--Bluff check: 1d20 + 6(ranks) + 3(trained) + 6(Lvl) = Avg 25
--Attack roll: 1d20 + 6(BAB) + 4(Dex) + 2(Cha) = Avg 22
--Damage roll: 1d6 + 2(Str) + 6(Lvl) + 1d6(Righteous) = Avg 14
--Add on Bleeding Attack since the target was denied Dex, 2 points of bleed damage
The Divine Duelist is getting one less attack, and dealing on average a very similar amount of damage even after adding the Rightous Strike damage. Instead of that second attack, he gets to add one of his Rites. Seems pretty fair to me.
Soundslogical to me. So, just to clarify:
1) adjust paladin code as above
2) keeep righteous strike as is, and can only be used against a smite target for extra damage (smite damage + righteous strike)
Also, you said:
"The Divine Duelist is getting one less attack, and dealing on average a very similar amount of damage even after adding the Rightous Strike damage. Instead of that second attack, he gets to add one of his Rites. Seems pretty fair to me."
If you mean his BAB (getting 1 lesss attack) then you're wrong. Divine Duelist is Paladin base = full BAB.
Here's This:
Code of Conduct: A divine duelist must adhere to the guidelines presented in the paladin’s code of conduct, but apply them to her chosen alignment. In addition, the divine duelist never gains the benefits of a flanking action, but may provide that benefit to an ally.
Now, I don't know if you noticed or not, but the Divine Duelist can be ANY good alignment. Don't know if that changes your opinion on the flank thing or not.
Great feedback carmanbeck.
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Soundslogical to me. So, just to clarify:
1) adjust paladin code as above
2) keeep righteous strike as is, and can only be used against a smite target for extra damage (smite damage + righteous strike)Also, you said:
"The Divine Duelist is getting one less attack, and dealing on average a very similar amount of damage even after adding the Rightous Strike damage. Instead of that second attack, he gets to add one of his Rites. Seems pretty fair to me."
If you mean his BAB (getting 1 lesss attack) then you're wrong. Divine Duelist is Paladin base = full BAB.
Here's This:
Code of Conduct: A divine duelist must adhere to the guidelines presented in the paladin’s code of conduct, but apply them to her chosen alignment. In addition, the divine duelist never gains the benefits of a flanking action, but may provide that benefit to an ally.
Now, I don't know if you noticed or not, but the Divine Duelist can be ANY good alignment. Don't know if that changes your opinion on the flank thing or not.
Great feedback carmanbeck.
With the "one less attack" i meant that he has to use some type of action to feint first to be able to add his Rites or Righteous damage, so he either has to do a single attack because of the move action to feint, or at higher levels he has to give up his first attack in a full attack action to feint. Either way, he's getting fewer attacks per round overall in most cases.
The alignment isn't what makes the flanking conduct thing, it's because since he's a duelist, his code of conduct doesn't allow him to "gang up" on enemies, and so that's why he shouldn't get to benefit from flanking. Does that make sense?
Both totally makes sense once it's explained.
How's this?
Code of Conduct: A divine duelist adhere's to a code of honorable single combat. This code prevents her from gaining the benefits of a flanking action. However, she may participate in such an action to provide that benefit to an ally. In addition, she must adhere to the guidelines presented in the paladin’s code of conduct, but apply them to her chosen alignment as is appropriate.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Both totally makes sense once it's explained.
How's this?
Code of Conduct: A divine duelist adhere's to a code of honorable single combat. This code prevents her from gaining the benefits of a flanking action. However, she may participate in such an action to provide that benefit to an ally. In addition, she must adhere to the guidelines presented in the paladin’s code of conduct, but apply them to her chosen alignment as is appropriate.
The only thing I'd change is "flanking action" doesn't make sense, it's not actually an action. Just say "This code prevents her from gaining the benefits of flanking, though she may provide flanking benefits for an ally."
Also, "adheres" doesn't have an apostrophe. ;-P
Both totally makes sense once it's explained.
How's this?
Code of Conduct: A divine duelist adhere's to a code of honorable single combat. This code prevents her from gaining the benefits of a flanking action. However, she may participate in such an action to provide that benefit to an ally. In addition, she must adhere to the guidelines presented in the paladin’s code of conduct, but apply them to her chosen alignment as is appropriate.
The only thing I'd change is "flanking action" doesn't make sense, it's not actually an action. Just say "This code prevents her from gaining the benefits of flanking, though she may provide flanking benefits for an ally."
Also, "adheres" doesn't have an apostrophe. ;-P
Done.
Here's another archetype. The Holy Rager (Barbarian/Paladin)
The holy rager takes the rage and sheer physical dominance of the barbarian with the divinely bestowed powers of the paladin. She uses her divine might to bolster her attacks and strike down any enemy that stands before her.
Primary Class: Barbarian.
Secondary Class: Paladin.
Alignment: Neutral Good or Chaotic Good.
Hit Dice: d12.
Save Bonus: +2 Will.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: Holy ragers may select three paladin skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal barbarian class skills. The righteous fury gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int modifier.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Holy ragers are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, with light armor, medium armor, and with shields (except tower).
Aura of Good (Su): This is exactly like the paladin ability of the same name. This ability replaces fast movement.
Detect Evil (Su): This is exactly like the paladin ability of the same name. This ability is replaces rage power at 2nd level.
Divine Grace (Su): This is exactly like the paladin ability of the same name. This ability replaces rage power at 8th level.
Rage Powers (Ex): At 3rd level and every four levels thereafter, the holy rager may select a rage power which she qualifies for. This is otherwise exactly like the barbarian ability of the same name.
Righteous Wrath (Su): Once per day, a holy rager of 6th level can call down the wrath of heaven to strike down her foes during a rage. As a swift action, the holy rager chooses one target within sight to attack. If the target is of good or neutral alignment, the holy rager adds 1/2 her holy rager level to all damage rolls. If the target is evil, the holy rager adds her holy rager level to all damage rolls made against the target. If the target is an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature, the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per level the holy rager possesses. Regardless of the target, this attack automatically bypass any DR the creature might possess.
In addition, while righteous wrath is in effect, the holy rager gains a sacred bonus equal to her Charisma modifier (if any) to her DR against attacks made by the target of the attack. The righteous wrath effect remains until the target is dead or the rage ends, which ever comes first. At 10th level, and at every four levels thereafter, the holy rager may use righteous wrath one additional time per day, to a maximum of four times per day at 18th level. This ability replaces trap sense.
Aura of Resolve (Su): This is exactly like the paladin ability of the same name. This ability replaces rage power at 14th level.
Aura of Fury (Su): At 12th level, a holy rager can expend four rounds of her rage ability to grant the ability to rage to all allies within 10 feet, using her bonuses. Allies must use this rage ability by the start of the holy rager’s next turn and the bonuses last for 1 minute. Using this ability is a free action. Evil creatures gain no benefit from this ability. This ability replaces indomitable will.
Aura of Tenacity (Su): At 16th level, a holy rager of 16th level or higher gains immunity to compulsion spells and spell-like abilities. In addition, when in a rage, each ally within 10 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against compulsion effects. This ability functions only while the holy rager is conscious, not if she is unconscious or dead. This ability replaces rage power at 20th level.
Rage Powers: The following rage powers compliment the holy rager multiclass archetype: auspicious mark†, ghost rager†, guarded life (greater) †, guarded life*, guarded stance, holy rage (greater), holy rage (lesser), holy rage, regenerative vigor†, renewed life†, renewed vigor, and renewed vitality†.
Rage Powers
The following new rage powers can be taken by any barbarian or barbarian multiclass archetype that meets the prerequisites.
Holy Rage (Su): While raging, all of the barbarian’s melee attacks deal an additional 1d6 points of holy damage against creatures of evil alignment. A barbarian must have the lesser holy rage power to select this rage power. A barbarian must be at least 8th level to select this rage power. Note that the barbarian can still use her lesser holy rage power, but not while using this rage power.
Holy Rage, Greater (Su): While raging, all of the barbarian’s critical hits made with melee weapons deal an additional 1d10 points of holy damage (2d10 if the weapon deals ×3 damage on a critical hit, 3d10 if the weapon deals ×4 on a critical hit). A barbarian must have the holy rage power to select this rage power. A barbarian must be at least 12th level to select this rage power.
Holy Rage, Lesser (Su): As a swift action, the barbarian can cause her melee attacks to deal an additional 1d6 points of holy damage against creatures of evil alignment for 1 round. A barbarian must be at least 4th level to select this rage power. This power can only be used once per rage.
Table: Holy Rager
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special
1st +1 +2 +0 +0 Aura of good, rage
2nd +2 +3 +0 +0 Detect evil, uncanny dodge
3rd +3 +3 +1 +1 Rage power
4th +4 +4 +1 +1 Divine grace
5th +5 +4 +1 +1 Divine bond, improved uncanny dodge
6th +6/+1 +5 +2 +2 Rage power, righteous wrath 1/day
7th +7/+2 +5 +2 +2 Damage reduction1/—
8th +8/+3 +6 +2 +2 Aura of resolve
9th +9/+4 +6 +3 +3 Rage power
10th +10/+5 +7 +3 +3 Damage reduction 2/—, righteous wrath 2/day
11th +11/+6/+1 +7 +3 +3 Greater rage
12th +12/+7/+2 +8 +4 +4 Aura of fury, rage power
13th +13/+8/+3 +8 +4 +4 Damage reduction 3/—
14th +14/+9/+4 +9 +4 +4 Righteous wrath 3/day
15th +15/+10/+5 +9 +5 +5 Rage power
16th +16/+11/+6/+1 +10 +5 +5 Aura of tenacity, damage reduction 4/—
17th +17/+12/+7/+2 +10 +5 +5 Tireless rage
18th +18/+13/+8/+3 +11 +6 +6 Righteous wrath 4/day, rage power
19th +19/+14/+9/+4 +11 +6 +6 Damage reduction 5/—
20th +20/+15/+10/+5 +12 +6 +6 Mighty rage
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Here's another archetype. The Holy Rager (Barbarian/Paladin)
** spoiler omitted **...
Everything looks super awesome and balanced except for one little line:
In addition, while righteous wrath is in effect, the holy rager gains a sacred bonus equal to her Charisma modifier (if any) to her DR against attacks made by the target of the attack.
This is probably a little high, because if the person builds themselves with a charisma of 22 (+6) then they'd have DR7/- starting at 7th level, which is huge! I would say make the enhancement to DR equal to 1/2 the Cha mod, rounded down, instead of full Cha mod. Otherwise, it's really excellent!
Here's another archetype. The Holy Rager (Barbarian/Paladin)
** spoiler omitted **...
Everything looks super awesome and balanced except for one little line:
In addition, while righteous wrath is in effect, the holy rager gains a sacred bonus equal to her Charisma modifier (if any) to her DR against attacks made by the target of the attack.
This is probably a little high, because if the person builds themselves with a charisma of 22 (+6) then they'd have DR7/- starting at 7th level, which is huge! I would say make the enhancement to DR equal to 1/2 the Cha mod, rounded down, instead of full Cha mod. Otherwise, it's really excellent!
+1. Thanks! That's why I like this back and forth.
That's NIIIIICE!!! No spellcasting, right?
That's NIIIIICE!!! No spellcasting, right?
Nope! Anyone have any comments on my Venom Blade? Would like some feedback on it?
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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That's NIIIIICE!!! No spellcasting, right?Nope! Anyone have any comments on my Venom Blade? Would like some feedback on it?
Alchemy (Ex): Unlike other alchemists, venom blades are masters of creating poisons of all kinds, whether they are of a plant, animal, or alchemical base. Because of this narrow focus, a venom blade cannot use his Craft (alchemy) to create other alchemical items, bombs, extracts, or mutatgens of any kind. Poisons can be made using Craft (alchemy). The DC to make a poison is equal to its Fortitude save DC. Rolling a natural 1 on a Craft skill check while making a poison exposes the venom blade to the poison. A venom blade can create any poison listed in Table 16–2: Sample Poisons on page 559 of the Core Rulebook, if he has acquired the appropriate components for an individual poison.
-Given that anyone with craft(alchemy) skill points can make mundane alchemical items like acid and sunsticks, that part should be removed.
Sneak Attack: This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name. The extra damage dealt increases by +1d6 at 1s level and every three levels thereafter, to a maximum of +7d6 at 17th level. Sneak attack bonuses from multiple sources stack.
-Just for my own benefit, what is the rationale for slowing his sneak progression? Do you replace it with something?
Creatures that engage in combat with the venom blade using slashing or piercing weapons (including natural weapons) have a 10% cumulative chance of being poisoned by the venom blade’s blood for each consecutive round of combat.
-This should probably state that they have a 10% cumulative chance of being exposed to the poison. They should still get a chance to save against it.
Blood Antidote (Ex): At 9th level, a venom blade can use 1 dose of blood venom to create 1 dose of antidote that functions like delay poison. This requires 1 hour of work with an alchemist’s lab and a Craft (alchemy) skill check with a DC equal to his blood venom’s DC. Unlike blood venom, an antidote, once created, remains potent until used. This is due to the change it undergoes to its chemical make-up. At 12th level, 1 dose of antidote functions as neutralize poison. A venom blade can only have a number of antidotes in existence at any given time equal to his 1/2 his venom blade level. This ability can be used a number of times per day equal to the venom blade’s Intelligence modifier. This ability replaces improved uncanny dodge.
-This one is especially cool because I imagine the character "questioning" a captive by exposing them to his own blood poison, then waving the vial of antidote THAT WAS ALSO MADE WITH HIS OWN BLOOD in their face until they squeal. <evil laugh> HAHAHHAHAHAHAHA </evil laugh>
Venom Bile (Ex): Venom Bile (Ex): At 17th level, the body of a venom blade is further suffused with poison. The venom blade can regurgitate and spew a line of poisonous bile up to 10 feet, as a move action. Any creature hit by the bile must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 the venom blade’s level + the venom blade’s Constitution modifier) or be afflicted by blood venom. In addition, the venom blade can expend one daily use of this ability to apply blood venom poison to a weapon by licking the blade as a swift action. The venom blade can use this ability a number of times per day equal to his Constitution modifier. This ability replaces rogue talent at 20th level.
-EEEWWW!!! I love it. The only thing is, since it's a 10ft line, they should probably get a Reflex save too. I'm thinking that it could cause some damage which a Reflex save would cuz in half, and also have to Fort save against the poison. Damage could be... 1d8/2 levels in acid damage? What do you think? If it does deal damage, it should be a standard action instead of a move action.
Venom Strike (Ex): At 20th level, a venom blade is so suffused with poison that he can secrete it from his very pores. The venom blade gains a poisonous touch that has the same effect as his current form of blood venom. Also, the venom blade has such perfect control over his body that he can secrete any previous form of his blood venom he chooses. Changing the current form of his blood venom to a previous form requires 1 round and the venom blade to make a Will save against the minimum DC of the form of blood venom he desires to secrete. For example, a venom blade with a Constitution score of 14 that wants to secrete the previous sickening form of his blood venom would have to make a successful DC 16 Will save. If the Will save fails the blood venom retains its current form. A venom blade can change his blood venom from a previous form back to its current form as a standard action. The physical appearance of how the venom blade generates and delivers his poisonous touch varies from venom blade to venom blade.
-Add in that the poisonous touch requires a touch attck.
Other than those few little details, it sounds really awesome. We are definitely getting better and better at this! :-D
I know you've already discussed Stealth Mage a few pages back, but how is Stealth Mage not just plain better than Wizard? I don't see anything a Wizard has that a Stealth Mage does not, unless I'm missing something...
P.S. Rogue/Wizard is my favorite class combo too ;)
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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I know you've already discussed Stealth Mage a few pages back, but how is Stealth Mage not just plain better than Wizard? I don't see anything a Wizard has that a Stealth Mage does not, unless I'm missing something...
P.S. Rogue/Wizard is my favorite class combo too ;)
The Stealth Mage loses the arcane bond class feature, which normally gives access to a spell at each level per day that is spontaneous. That's a big loss. I think the spells per day might be lower also, is that true Elghinn?
EDIT: Hmm, actually looking back at the PDF it doesn't look like the Arcane Bond is dropped. What IS lost by the wizard for the sneak attack, exploits, and rogue talents given by this archetype? Has this one ended up being totally unbalanced somehow?
Sneak Attack: This is exactly like the rogue ability of the same name. The extra damage dealt increases by +1d6 at 1s level and every three levels thereafter, to a maximum of +7d6 at 17th level. Sneak attack bonuses from multiple sources stack.
This doesn't scan. 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 16. Not 17.
I recommend you SWITCH poison use and alchemy, and remove the dependent disclaimer.
Persistent Poison (Ex): At 14th level, the set amount of time component of a poison’s frequency increases to the next higher time interval (rounds increase to minutes, minutes to hours, hours to days, etc.). This requires 1 hour of work with an alchemist’s lab and a Craft (alchemy) skill check with a DC equal to poison’s Fortitude save DC. If the poison does not have a set amount of time, this ability has no effect. This ability can be applied to the venom blade’s own blood venom. This ability replaces rogue talent at 14th level.
Who cares? Why would you ever want to SLOW DOWN the poisons effects, and why would you call it persistent when what it does is slow down the poisons effective intervals? As written, they are unlikely to die from the poison in combat, and this is a waste of several hundred GP worth of good toxins. If you want it to be persistent, increase the number of saves to beat the poison by one. That's NASTY poison.
Bile makes my rogue MAD. >.< (Multiple Attribute Dependency)
At 11th level the Venom Blade INSTANT KILLS anything they fight that doesn't make the fort save against their blood. Nauseate limits you to a single move action and nothing else during your turn. This trumps anything shy of stun-lock for up to six rounds.
Suggestion: Treat like pressure points. (ninja trick) Venom blade is going to be able to tag their free poison on someone every single round a half dozen times with 2WF. Ninja Pressure Points don't damage Con either.
-Given that anyone with craft(alchemy) skill points can make mundane alchemical items like acid and sunsticks, that part should be removed.
Done.
I reduced it because he's a walking poison factory. I may have had a different reason too but can't think of it. Also, it should be 19th leve not 17th for +7d6.
Done.
"...have a 10% cumulative chance of being exposed to the venom blade’s blood venom for each consecutive round of combat. If a creature is exposed, it receives the usual save against its effects."
[quote=] "Blood Antidote (Ex): At 9th level, a venom blade can ..."
-This one is especially cool because I imagine the character "questioning" a captive by exposing them to his own blood poison, then waving the vial of antidote THAT WAS ALSO MADE WITH HIS OWN BLOOD in their face until they squeal. <evil laugh> HAHAHHAHAHAHAHA </evil laugh>
Thanks! I like it too. It allows for good and evil characters to role play. I don't know if its apparent or not, but the blood antidote is universal, and will use against any type of poison, not just his blood venom. :D
[quote=]"Venom Bile (Ex): At 17th level, ..."
-EEEWWW!!! I love it. The only thing is, since it's a 10ft line, they should probably get a Reflex save too. I'm thinking that it could cause some damage which a Reflex save would cuz in half, and also have to Fort save against the poison. Damage could be... 1d8/2 levels in acid damage? What do you think? If it does deal damage, it should be a standard action instead of a move action.
This is the stats for Blood Venom.
BLOOD VENOM
Type poison, injury (contact at 14th level); Save DC 10 + 1/2 the venom blade’s level + the venom blade’s Constitution modifier
Frequency 1/round for 6 rounds
Initial Effect 1d6 hit point damage (1d8 at 11th level, 1d10 at 14th level, 2d6 at 17th level, 2d8 at 20th level); Secondary Effect sicken (nauseate at 11th level, 1d2 Con at 14th level, 1d3 Con at 17th level, 1d4 Con at 20th level); Cure 1 save (2 consecutive saves at 14th level)
So, I'm not sure about your suggestion. We could simply make it a ranged touch attack or a normal ranged attack? Then if the target is hit, use the Fortitude save against the poison's effects. I know that isn't exactly how the rules deal with "breath weapons".
OR
Venom Bile (Ex): At 17th level, the body of a venom blade is further suffused with poison. The venom blade can regurgitate and spew a line of poisonous bile up to 10 feet, as a standard action. Any creature hit by the bile can make a Reflex save (DC 10 + 1/2 the venom blade’s level + the venom blade’s Constitution modifier) for half the initial effect in acid damage, and automatically saves against the venom's secondary effect. If the Reflex save fails, the creature takes full initial effect in acid damage, and must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 the venom blade’s level + the venom blade’s Constitution modifier) or receive the secondary effect also. In addition, the...
I don't know, what's your thoughts?
Done.
[quote=]Other than those few little details, it sounds really awesome. We are definitely getting better and better at this! :-D
Definitely.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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-Given that anyone with craft(alchemy) skill points can make mundane alchemical items like acid and sunsticks, that part should be removed.Done.
I reduced it because he's a walking poison factory. I may have had a different reason too but can't think of it. Also, it should be 19th leve not 17th for +7d6.
Done.
"...have a 10% cumulative chance of being exposed to the venom blade’s blood venom for each consecutive round of combat. If a creature is exposed, it receives the usual save against its effects."
[quote=] "Blood Antidote (Ex): At 9th level, a venom blade can ..."
-This one is especially cool because I imagine the character "questioning" a captive by exposing them to his own blood poison, then waving the vial of antidote THAT WAS ALSO MADE WITH HIS OWN BLOOD in their face until they squeal. <evil laugh> HAHAHHAHAHAHAHA </evil laugh>
Thanks! I like it too. It allows for good and evil characters to role play. I don't know if its apparent or not, but the blood antidote is universal, and will use against any type of poison, not just his blood venom. :D
[quote=]"Venom Bile (Ex): At 17th level, ..."
-EEEWWW!!! I love it. The only thing is, since it's a 10ft line, they should probably get a Reflex save too. I'm thinking that it could cause some damage which a Reflex save would cuz in half, and also have to Fort save against the poison. Damage could be... 1d8/2 levels in acid damage? What do you think? If it does deal damage, it should be a standard action instead of a move action.
This is the stats for Blood Venom.
BLOOD VENOM
Type poison, injury (contact at 14th level); Save DC 10 + 1/2 the venom blade’s level +...
Ranged touch would work fine for the Bile, then if it hits, normal save against poison.
Could you look real quick at the comments above about the Stealth Mage? Looking back at it, it does seem like he gets everything that a wizard would get, with no drawbacks. Am i missing something?
I know you've already discussed Stealth Mage a few pages back, but how is Stealth Mage not just plain better than Wizard? I don't see anything a Wizard has that a Stealth Mage does not, unless I'm missing something...
P.S. Rogue/Wizard is my favorite class combo too ;)
The Stealth Mage loses the arcane bond class feature, which normally gives access to a spell at each level per day that is spontaneous. That's a big loss. I think the spells per day might be lower also, is that true Elghinn?
EDIT: Hmm, actually looking back at the PDF it doesn't look like the Arcane Bond is dropped. What IS lost by the wizard for the sneak attack, exploits, and rogue talents given by this archetype? Has this one ended up being totally unbalanced somehow?
Here's the new version of the Stealth Mage that Flak and I redesigned. It's much more interesting, balanced, and combines much of the stealthy rogue into the arcane school/arcane bond. Both he and I will be going through the original pdf to redesign all the Core Archetypes to feel and act more like the ones we've recently ceated. Our process and creativity has evolved so much that they deserve a redesign/refit.
A stealth mage is first and foremost a spellcaster. However, she delves into the arts of stealth and subterfuge to enhance her magic, which she employs to perform extraordinary acts of legerdemain, agility, and roguish expertise. Through the synergistic melding of these two specialty arts, the stealth mage becomes a deadly foe to both fear and admire.
Primary Class: Wizard.
Secondary Class: Rogue.
Hit Dice: d6.
Save Bonus: +2 Reflex.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: Stealth mages may select six rogue skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal wizard class skills. The stealth mage gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Stealth mages are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow, and short sword. They do not gain any proficiency with armor or shields.
Thief’s Spellbook (Ex): A stealth mage finds less time to research new spells, but has mastered an obfuscated manner of scribing those she learns. At 1st level, the stealth mage incorporates elements of Thieves' Cant into her arcane writings. Creatures take a –4 penalty on skill checks involving the stealth mage's spellbook. The stealth mage's non-cantrip spells take one extra page each in her spellbook, and she gains only one new spell in her spellbook at each level after 1st. In all other respects, a stealth mage's spellbook functions as a normal wizard's spellbook.
Arcane Bond (Ex or Sp): The stealth mage forms a powerful bond with an aspect of stealth and subterfuge or a specialized organization. This bond can take one of two forms: a bonded to arcane ebb and flow of trickery itself, or membership within an organization of arcane tricksters and thieves.
A stealth mage who selects trickery gains the insight to perform deadly sneak attacks. The damage she deals on a successful sneak attack is +1d6 at 1st level, and every four levels thereafter, to a maximum of +5d6 at 17th level. Sneak attack bonuses from multiple sources stack. She also receives a +1 enhancement bonus on Disable Device, Disguise, Escape Artist, Sleight of Hand, and Stealth skill checks. This bonus increases by +1 at 5th level and every five levels thereafter, to a maximum of +5 at 20th level.
A stealth mage who selects the organization receives additional training in stealth and teamwork. At 1st level, she receives a daily stealth pool equal to her Bluff ranks plus any bonus she receives from feats. As the chameleon rogue archetype, the stealth mage can choose to put stealth points into the roll when making a Stealth check. She may also use these points when rolling a Bluff check to create a diversion to hide. Additionally, when casting a spell, the stealth mage can expend a number of stealth points equal to her level in order to remove either the verbal or somatic components from the spell.
At 4th level, the stealth mage who bonds with the organization can use these points as ki points for the purpose of using ninja tricks. At 8th level, the stealth mage gains Outflank as a bonus feat. At 12th level, when the stealth mage spends stealth points to remove components from a spell she's casting, she removes both its verbal and somatic components. At 16th level, the stealth mage can lose a prepared spell as a swift action to regain a number of stealth points equal to the spell's level.
Diminished Casting: The stealth mage casts one fewer spell of each level per day. If this reduces the number of spells at a certain level to 0, she may cast spells of that level only if she receives bonus spells of that level from having a high ability score or from her arcane school. She otherwise learns, prepares, and casts spells as a wizard of equal level.
Focused Arcane School: The stealth mage must select the subterfuge focused arcane school at 1st level. This otherwise functions as and replaces the wizard's arcane school ability.
Talents: At 1st level, and again at 4th level and every three levels thereafter, a stealth mage gains either a rogue talent for which she qualifies or one of the following rogue abilities: evasion, uncanny dodge, and improved uncanny dodge. A stealth mage must select evasion before she can select uncanny dodge, and uncanny dodge before selecting improved uncanny dodge. At 13th level, the stealth mage can choose advanced rogue talents whenever she could choose a rogue talent. In the case of the improved evasion talent, the stealth mage must have evasion to select it. A stealth mage treats her level as her rogue level for the purpose of qualifying for talents with level-dependent requirements and calculating the effects of any talent or rogue ability she's chosen.
Rogue Initiate (Ex): At 6th level, the stealth effective rogue level is equal to her stealth mage level –5 for the purposes of flanking creatures with improved uncanny dodge. This penalty decreases to –3 at 11th level, and to –1 at 16th level.
Tricky Spells (Su): This works exactly as the arcane trickster ability by the same name. A stealth mage can use tricky spells three times per day at 9th level, and one additional time per day every three levels thereafter, to a maximum of six times per day at 18th level.
Rogue Talents: The stealth mage adds impromptu sneak attack, studied trickery, and trapfinding to the list of rogue talents she can select. The following rogue talents complement the stealth mage multiclass archetype: guileful polygot*, impromptu sneak attack, resiliency, snap shot*, stand up, studied trickery, surprise attack, trapfinding, and trap spotter. (*Advanced Player’s Guide, **Ultimate Magic).
Advanced Talents: The following advanced rogue talents complement the stealth mage multiclass archetype: another day*, dispelling attack, improved evasion, redirect attack*, skill mastery, and thoughtful reexamining*. (*Advanced Player’s Guide)
New Rogue Talents
The following new rogue talents can be taken by any rogue who meets the prerequisites.
Impromptu Sneak Attack: Once per day, a rogue with this talent can declare one melee or ranged attack she makes to be a sneak attack, with the normal range restrictions on ranged sneak attacks. The target of an impromptu sneak attack loses any Dexterity bonus to AC, but only against that attack. The power can be used against any target, but creatures not subject to critical hits take no extra damage. To qualify for this advanced rogue talent, a rogue must either have the major magic rogue talent or the ability to cast spells.
Silent Magic (Su): The rogue can cast one spell per day as if it were modified by the Silent Spell feat. This does not increase the casting time or the level of the spell. The rogue must have the minor magic talent or be able to cast arcane or divine spells to select this talent.
Still Magic (Su): The rogue can cast one spell per day as if it were modified by the Still Spell feat. This does not increase the casting time or the level of the spell. . The rogue must have the minor magic talent or be able to cast arcane or divine spells to select this talent.
Studied Trickery: Choose two of the following skills: Bluff, Disable Device, Disguise, Escape Artist, Sleight of Hand, Stealth. The rogue adds her Intelligence bonus to checks made with these skills in addition to the normal ability bonus used by the skill. A rogue can pick this talent more than once, each time selecting another two skills.
Trapfinding: This rogue talent functions as the first-level rogue ability by the same name.
NEW FOCUSED ARCANE SCHOOL
Wizards that specialize in one of the schools of magic can instead chose a focused arcane school. The following focused arcane school compliments the stealth mage multiclass archetype.
Subterfuge School
Associated School: Illusion
Replacement Powers: The following school powers replace the extended illusions and blinding ray powers of the illusion school.
Ranged Legerdemain (Su): You can use Disable Device and Sleight of Hand at close range (25 ft. + 5 ft./2 levels). Working at a distance increases the normal skill check DC by 5, and you can't take 10 on this check. Any object to be manipulated must weigh 1 pound per wizard level or less. You can only use this ability if you have at least 1 rank in the skill being used. At 10th level, you can take 10 on the check. At 20th level, whenever you use ranged legerdemain, assume the roll resulted in a natural 20.
Surprise Spells: At 1st level, you can add your sneak attack damage to any spell that deals damage if the targets are flat-footed. This additional damage only applies to spells that deal hit point damage, and the additional damage is of the type of the spell. If the spell allows a saving throw to negate or halve the damage, it also negates or halves the sneak attack damage.
Alternatively, you can add +1 to the DC of any spell if the targets are flat-footed. This bonus to DCs increases to +2 at 9th level and +3 at 17th level. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.
Table: Stealth Mage
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st +0 +0 +2 +2 Arcane bond, cantrips, diminished casting, 2 0 — — — — — — — —
focused arcane school, talents
2nd +1 +0 +2 +3 3 1 — — — — — — — —
3rd +1 +1 +3 +3 3 1 0 — — — — — — —
4th +2 +1 +3 +4 Talents 3 2 1 — — — — — — —
5th +2 +1 +3 +4 3 2 1 0 — — — — — —
6th +3 +2 +4 +5 Rogue initiate (–5) 3 2 2 1 — — — — — —
7th +3 +2 +4 +5 Talents 3 3 2 1 0 — — — — —
8th +4 +2 +4 +6 3 3 2 2 1 — — — — —
9th +4 +3 +5 +6 Tricky spells 3/day 3 3 3 2 1 0 — — — —
10th +5 +3 +5 +7 Talents 3 3 3 2 2 1 — — — —
11th +5 +3 +5 +7 Rogue initiate (–3) 3 3 3 3 2 1 0 — — —
12th +6/+1 +4 +6 +8 Tricky spells 4/day 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 — — —
13th +6/+1 +4 +6 +8 Talents, advanced talents 3 3 3 3 3 2 1 0 — —
14th +7/+2 +4 +6 +9 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 — —
15th +7/+2 +5 +7 +9 Tricky spells 5/day 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 1 0 —
16th +8/+3 +5 +7 +10 Talents 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 —
17th +8/+3 +5 +7 +10 Rogue initiate (–1) 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 1 0
18th +9/+4 +6 +8 +11 Tricky spells 6/day 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 1
19th +9/+4 +6 +8 +11 Talents 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2
20th +10/+5 +6 +8 +12 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3
Ranged touch would work fine for the Bile, then if it hits, normal save against poison.Could you look real quick at the comments above about the Stealth Mage? Looking back at it, it does seem like he gets everything that a wizard would get, with no drawbacks. Am i missing something?
How's this?
Venom Bile (Ex): At 17th level, the body of a venom blade is further suffused with poison. The venom blade can regurgitate and spew a line of poisonous bile up to 10 feet, as a standard action, by making a ranged touch attack. Any creature hit by the bile must make a Fortitude save (DC 10 + 1/2 the venom blade’s level + the venom blade’s Constitution modifier) or be afflicted by blood venom. In addition, the venom blade can expend one daily use of this ability to apply blood venom poison to a weapon by licking the blade as a swift action. The venom blade can use this ability a number of times per day equal to his Constitution modifier. This ability replaces rogue talent at 20th level.
Just posted the second thing above.
Ok, now I wait for the other two venom-humors
This doesn't scan. 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 16. Not 17.
Yup, should be 1, 4, 7, 10, 13, 16, 19, as above.
Yeah, I agree, poison use would be paramount to actully studying alchemy. Plus he's Rogue (primary)/Alchemist (secondary)
Persistent Poison (Ex): At 14th level, the set amount of time component of a poison’s frequency increases to the next higher time interval (rounds increase to minutes, minutes to hours, hours to days, etc.). This requires 1 hour of work with an alchemist’s lab and a Craft (alchemy) skill check with a DC equal to poison’s Fortitude save DC. If the poison does not have a set amount of time, this ability has no effect. This ability can be applied to the venom blade’s own blood venom. This ability replaces rogue talent at 14th level.Obviously my wording isn't getting the idea across. Here's an example:
Blood Venom has a frequency of 1/round for 6 rounds. Persistent Poison would make give it a new frequency of 1/round for 6 minutes.
Perhaps this is better wording:
Persistent Poison (Ex): At 14th level, the venom blade can increase the duration component of a poison's frequency the next higher time interval (rounds increase to minutes, minutes to hours, hours to days, etc.). For example, a poison with a frequency of 1/round for 6 rounds would be increased to 1/round for 6 minutes. This requires 1 hour of work with an alchemist’s lab and a Craft (alchemy) skill check with a DC equal to poison’s Fortitude save DC. If the poison does not have a set amount of time, this ability has no effect. This ability can be applied to the venom blade’s own blood venom. This ability replaces rogue talent at 14th level.
A normal multiclass Rogue/Alchemist would be MAD too. Currently we have Rogue (Dex/Cha), Alchemist (Dex/Int), Blood Venom (Con). What would you suggest?
[quote=]
At 11th level the Venom Blade INSTANT KILLS anything they fight that doesn't make the fort save against their blood. Nauseate limits you to a single move action and nothing else during your turn. This trumps anything shy of stun-lock for up to six rounds.Suggestion: Treat like pressure points. (ninja trick) Venom blade is going to be able to tag their free poison on someone every single round a half dozen times with 2WF. Ninja Pressure Points don't damage Con either.
I assume by this you're saying to redesign the Blood Venom to do Str or Dex damage instead of Con (perhaps Dex being a Rogue/Alchemist), and remove the nauseating effect? Why don't you do a write up and show me what you think it should be. The nauseate effect was based on the Nauseating Flesh alchemist discovery in UC.
Again, here's the current Blood Venom stats:
BLOOD VENOM
Type poison, injury (contact at 14th level); Save DC 10 + 1/2 the venom blade’s level + the venom blade’s Constitution modifier
Frequency 1/round for 6 rounds
Initial Effect 1d6 hit point damage (1d8 at 11th level, 1d10 at 14th level, 2d6 at 17th level, 2d8 at 20th level); Secondary Effect sicken (nauseate at 11th level, 1d2 Con at 14th level, 1d3 Con at 17th level, 1d4 Con at 20th level); Cure 1 save (2 consecutive saves at 14th level)
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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I know you've already discussed Stealth Mage a few pages back, but how is Stealth Mage not just plain better than Wizard? I don't see anything a Wizard has that a Stealth Mage does not, unless I'm missing something...
P.S. Rogue/Wizard is my favorite class combo too ;)
The Stealth Mage loses the arcane bond class feature, which normally gives access to a spell at each level per day that is spontaneous. That's a big loss. I think the spells per day might be lower also, is that true Elghinn?
EDIT: Hmm, actually looking back at the PDF it doesn't look like the Arcane Bond is dropped. What IS lost by the wizard for the sneak attack, exploits, and rogue talents given by this archetype? Has this one ended up being totally unbalanced somehow?
Here's the new version of the Stealth Mage that Flak and I redesigned. It's much more interesting, balanced, and combines much of the stealthy rogue into the arcane school/arcane bond. Both he and I will be going through the original pdf to redesign all the Core Archetypes to feel and act more like the ones we've recently ceated. Our process and creativity has evolved so much that they deserve a redesign/refit.
** spoiler omitted **...
I LOVE IT!! It's like you took all the parts of the Arcane Trickster that make it seem like a great class to use, and made it A GREAT CLASS TO USE. LOL
This one is going to pwn some n00bs in my next campaign, where I'm only going to let the players choose multiclass archetypes. :-P
It was primarily Flak's design. He had UC and had a bunch of ideas to rework it. I told him he HAD to do a good job because my 2nd favorite characters was a Wizard/Rogue. would have liked 6d6 sneak attack, but 5d6 will do. So kudos to him, 'cause it was this rework that inspired me on a number of other possiblities when it comes to doing the archetypes.
My Divine Emissary was also inspired from my favorite character; a 7 ft. human paladin/cleric who became the right hand of his god, andeventually became (along with his party - an elven Rgr/Clr, human oriental Wiz/Alch, and a halfling Rog/Brd) the immortal protectors of my campaign setting.
My Wiz/Rog was a derro who learned to survive on the surface and eventually overcame the deadly effects of the sun. He also became a tool of the gods.
...but I digress. So, once Flak and I get back to them, expect the original archetypes to be reworked to resemble something more like the new stealth mage. Some may remain similar to the original, but we're going to try and make them flavorful and exciting to play. For example, I'm currently lonewolfing on the songfilch (Brd/Rog) redo, and he'll end up with a soung-based ability that is a magical ranged weapon and can be used to sneak attack too.
Just found this on p556 of the Core Book, too...
Crafters with the poison
use class feature do not risk poisoning themselves when
using Craft to make poison.
So, the Nauseating Flesh ability is neat, but only functions if you put them in your mouth. This is way different from a guy with a swift action to poison his weapon getting 3+ swings at you with a nauseating blade.
What do you think of:
Blood Venom
Type poison, injury; Save Fortitude DC = 10 + 1/2 Venom Blade Level + Con Modifier
Frequency 1/round for 6 rounds
Initial Effect 1d6 damage (2d4 at 11th level; 2d6 at 14th level; 4d4 at 17th level; 4d6 at 20th level) and sickened condition; Secondary Effect 1 dex damage (1 dex or 1 str damage at 11th level; 1 dex and 1 str damage at 17th level; 1 con damage at 20th level) and the sickened condition persists; Cure 1 save (2 consecutive saves at 14th level)
Since poison doesn't self-stack you never have to worry about causing nausea on multiple attacks, it just raises the save DC and duration!
Persistent Poison:
4 doses of Hemlock = DC 24 poison, save once per minute for SIX HOURS or die take 1d6 dex damage on each failed save, two consecutive to live, die at 0 dex. @.@
Why not change it to "virulent poison" so they can remove the Onset Times of those nifty altered ingestion and contact poisons, or shift down the frequency to 1/2 the normal frequency? You could even try applying it multiple times to get the frequency down to 1 round. (1 minute - five rounds, five rounds - 3 rounds, 3 - 2, 2 - 1 round for a total of four steps of refinement and a metric buttload of cash.)
Alright, after some thinking on Purplefixer's comments, Iv'e made th following changes to my Venom Blade. I think it now flows better as an archetype, and is less complicated. Also less MAD.
1) Venom Skin at 8th level is now "Blood Venom" with the following entry:
Blood Venom (Ex): Starting at 8th level, the blood of a venom blade becomes suffused with poison. As such, his blood is treated as an injury type poison that can cause weakness and great pain (see the Blood Venom entry below). The venom blade can apply one dose of his blood venom. Obtaining a single dose of his blood venom deals him 1d3 points of slashing or piercing damage. A dose of blood venom removed from the venom blade’s body remains potent for 1 day before spoiling. Creatures that engage in combat with the venom blade using slashing or piercing weapons (including natural weapons) have a 10% cumulative chance of being exposed to the venom blade’s blood venom for each consecutive round of combat. If a creature is exposed, it receives the usual save against its effects. The venom blade does not suffer any effects from his poisonous blood. This ability replaces sneak attack +2d6 and +5d6.
The new version of Blood Venom is such:
BLOOD VENOM
Type poison, injury; Save DC 10 + 1/2 the venom blade’s level + the venom blade’s Dexterity modifier
Frequency 1/round for 6 rounds
Initial Effect 1 Dex damage or 1 Str damage; Cure 1 save
Special Ability damage caused by blood venom can be healed by a DC 15 Heal check. Each successful check heals 1 point of damage caused by the venom. The venom blade receives a +10 insight bonus on Heal checks to heal damage caused by his blood venom.
2) Venom SKin at 11th reads as follows:
Venom Skin (Ex): At 11th level, a venom blade’s body becomes suffused with poison. Any creature that bites, engulfs, or swallows the venom blade must make a Fortitude saving throw or be nauseated for 1d4 rounds. The venom blade does not suffer the effect of the poison of his own nauseating flesh. This ability is similar to the alchemist’s nauseating flesh discovery found on page 24 of Ultimate Combat. This ability replaces sneak attack +8d6.
3) I replaced Persistent Poison with Greater Venom, as follows:
Greater Venom (Ex): At 14th level, the venom blade’s blood venom becomes more potent, as shown in the Blood Venom (Greater) entry below.
BLOOD VENOM, GREATER
Type poison, contact; Save DC 10 + 1/2 the venom blade’s level + the venom blade’s Dexterity modifier
Frequency 1/round for 12 rounds
Initial Effect 1 Dex damage and 1 Str damage; Cure 2 consecutive saves
Special Ability damage caused by blood venom can be healed by a DC 15 Heal check. Each successful check heals 1 point of damage caused by the venom. The venom blade receives a +10 insight bonus on Heal checks to heal damage caused by his blood venom.
4) I simplified Venom Strike as follows:
Venom Strike (Ex): At 20th level, a venom blade’s body is so suffused with poison that he can secrete it from his very pores. The venom blade gains a poison touch with the same effect as his blood venom that requires a touch attack to deliver. The physical appearance of how the venom blade generates and delivers his poisonous touch varies from venom blade to venom blade. In addition, a venom blade can use his poison touch to apply 1 dose of blood venom to a weapon that is already in his hands as a swift action. This ability replaces master strike.
Overall I think it's much improved,and maintains the flavor and option to be a potent hero, or dastardly villain.
EDIT: Sure, waited all day to see your fix Purplefixer, and you decide to post at the same time I'm getting my post ready!!! :P
I guess I'll read over what you said.
I like your poison, Purplefixer. It maintains my original version that scaled with level. LEt's see if we can combine my rewrites with your ideas.
:D
Sorry bout that, Elghinn!
I didn't have ANY solution for the MAD problem, I was just pointing out that it was there, and I noticed it. You should absolutely go with Dex/Int/Cha for the modifier though, and not make it con based, despite the complete logic and sense-making goodness of having it be a con-based poison.
(Hypothetical Thought of Academic Discussion +1) You can almost... -almost- make the poison a class-feature that can replace the sneak attack. If it scaled properly to say, 1/3 of the sneak attack dice like that. (End of HToAD+1)
I would consider a capstone replacement that makes his weapons always poisoned. This archetype is neat. I want one.
Sorry for my sudden 'vacation', I was busy working on a few things and haven't really had time on my hands till last night.
Final version of the Trick Blade is being written up, will be here tonight; as will a combination of Bard and Oracle I've thought up, the Shroudsinger. I think people will like it >:3
Expect them both from me sometime today!
Edit
Ah, why not. Here's the Trick Blade again, improved and stream-lined.
The average trick blade is nothing more than a thief who came across a spellbook in early life, and was deeply entranced by the mysteries of magic within. Other examples include the black sheep of a sorcerous bloodline, lacking the vital spark to become a true mage. All learn to use arcane power early on in small ways, seeking so much more- and finding ways to see it in others.
Concept- A Rogue who dabbles in trickery and battle magic.
Advantages/Disadvantages to a regular Rogue: Less Sneak attack, skills, less trapfinding ability. Gains spells and Arcane Pool.
Skills: Add three Rogue. 6+Int per level.
Weapons and Armor: Light, Shields, All Rogue, plus one additional Martial weapon.
Level: Special:
1 Sneak Attack +1d6, Arcane Pool, Lesser Trapfinding
2 Blade Trick, Perceive Aura
3 Evasion, A Little Luck
4 Sneak Attack +2d6, Cantrips, Spellcasting
5 Blade Trick, You Don't Know Till You Try
6 Uncanny Dodge
7 Sneak Attack +3d6, Sneakstrike
8 Blade Trick
9 Improved Perceive Aura
10 Sneak Attack +4d6
11 Blade Trick
12 Improved Uncanny Dodge
13 Sneak Attack +5d6
14 Advanced Blade Tricks, Blade Trick
15 Spell Recall
16 Sneak Attack +6d6
17 Blade Trick
18 Greater Perceive Aura
19 Sneak Attack +7d6
20 Blade Trick, Spectacular Strike
Arcane Pool: As Magus.
Lesser Trapfinding(Ex): A Trick Blade may use Disable Device to disarm magical traps. Unlike a rogue, they recieve no additional bonus to perception or disable device.
Spellcasting: A Trick Blade learns a very limited number of spells, based on intelligence. They select spells from the Magus spell list. A Trick Blade counts their caster level as their trick blade level -3. A trick blade does not suffer Arcane Spell Failure for wearing light armor, though he does for shields or heavier armors.
Blade Trick (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a trick blade can select either a rogue talent or a magus arcana for which he qualifies. The trick blade’s effective rogue and magus level for selecting talents or magus arcana is equal to his trick blade level. He may also select the Spellwright Dagger trick, below. At 14th level, a trick blade may select an advanced talent whenever he could select a talent.
Perceive Aura(Su): The Trick Blade learns early how to detect the ebb and flow of movements and magic. At second level, they may take a standard action to Detect Magic, as the spell, with the Duration of 1 round. During his next turn, he gains a +2 on attack rolls against any opponents within the area of this ability.
Sneakstrike(Su): Through trained reading of aura, little openings in the flow of magic can be seen; chinks in the spirit of another, for example. At any time that a Trick Blade attempts a melee sneak attack, or a sneak attack with a thrown weapon, they may choose to cast a touch spell as part of the strike; otherwise, this follows all rules as spellstrike.
Improved Perceive Aura(Su): The Trick Blade may now apply a +2 bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, Perform, and Sense Motive checks if able to use his Perceive Aura ability on the target(s).
You Don't Know Till You Try(Ex): By spending 2 Arcane Points, a Trick Blade may gain the bonuses of a single Rogue Talent for one round.
Spell Recall: As the Magus ability.
Greater Perceive Aura(Su): At 18th level, whenever the Trick Blade uses his Perceive Aura ability, it acts as though True Seeing instead.
Spectacular Strike(Su): Trick Blades who have mastered their art may perform a special sneak attack. They may choose to paralyze their opponent for 1d6 rounds (Fort Negates), put them to sleep for 1 hour (Fort Negates), or drain away arcane power to Fatigue the target and re-gain 1 Arcane Point (Will Negates). In all cases, the save DC is equal to 10+(1/2 Trick Blade level)+the Trick Blade's Intelligence Modifier.
Thief's Spellbook (Ex): A trick blade finds less time to research new spells, but has mastered an obfuscatory manner of scribing those he learns. At 1st level, the trick blade incorporates elements of a personalized secret code into his arcane writings. Creatures with whom he does not share this code take a -4 penalty on skill checks involving his spellbook. The trickblade's non-cantrip spells take one extra page each in his spellbook, and he gains only one new spell in his spellbook at each level after 1st. In all other respects, a trick blade's spellbook functions as a normal magus's spellbook.
New Blade Trick:
-- Spellwright Dagger: A rogue may spend an Arcane Point to generate a single Simple Light Weapon, such as a Dagger or Club, as a Move Action. They may enchant this weapon as per their Arcane Pool ability as part of the same action. This dagger remains in existence for up to one minute per Trick Blade level, or up to one round after it leaves the Trick Blade's hand; whichever comes first.
Trick Blade Spellcasting:
Level: Spells per Day (Cantrips/1st level/2nd level/3rd level)
1 -NA
2 -NA
3 -Na
4 -1
5 -1
6 -1
7 -1/0
8 -2/1
9 -2/1
10 -2/1/0
11 -2/1/1
12 -3/2/1
13 -3/2/1/0
14 -3/2/1/1
15 -3/2/2/1
16 -4/3/2/1
17 -4/3/2/1
18 -4/3/2/2
19 -4/3/3/2
20 -5/4/3/3
Gave them an appropriately cool ability in Perceive Aura that fits well with Sneakstrike's Flavor, and gave them Spell Recall- which means their small number of spells per day can go that much farther- without having to give them higher-level spells. Also made Spellwright Dagger a trick- I like the idea too much to drop, but as an outright class ability it just leaves something to be desired.
Fun Fact- I misspelled Perceive at least twelve times in my first few runs of this.
I'm still wary of giving them access to all the Magus Arcana, so I'm keeping that half-level to qualify matter in, but tossing out the other restrictions.
Whaddya guys think?
Okay, I don't know if my edit actually went -through- or not, so might as well repost this. As well as post something new! >:D
The average trick blade is nothing more than a thief who came across a spellbook in early life, and was deeply entranced by the mysteries of magic within. Other examples include the black sheep of a sorcerous bloodline, lacking the vital spark to become a true mage. All learn to use arcane power early on in small ways, seeking so much more- and finding ways to see it in others.
Concept- A Rogue who dabbles in trickery and battle magic.
Advantages/Disadvantages to a regular Rogue: Less Sneak attack, skills, less trapfinding ability. Gains spells and Arcane Pool.
Skills: Add three Rogue. 6+Int per level.
Weapons and Armor: Light, Shields, All Rogue, plus one additional Martial weapon.
Level: Special:
1 Sneak Attack +1d6, Arcane Pool, Lesser Trapfinding
2 Blade Trick, Perceive Aura
3 Evasion, A Little Luck
4 Sneak Attack +2d6, Cantrips, Spellcasting
5 Blade Trick, You Don't Know Till You Try
6 Uncanny Dodge
7 Sneak Attack +3d6, Sneakstrike
8 Blade Trick
9 Improved Perceive Aura
10 Sneak Attack +4d6
11 Blade Trick
12 Improved Uncanny Dodge
13 Sneak Attack +5d6
14 Advanced Blade Tricks, Blade Trick
15 Spell Recall
16 Sneak Attack +6d6
17 Blade Trick
18 Greater Perceive Aura
19 Sneak Attack +7d6
20 Blade Trick, Spectacular Strike
Arcane Pool: As Magus.
Lesser Trapfinding(Ex): A Trick Blade may use Disable Device to disarm magical traps. Unlike a rogue, they recieve no additional bonus to perception or disable device.
Spellcasting: A Trick Blade learns a very limited number of spells, based on intelligence. They select spells from the Magus spell list. A Trick Blade counts their caster level as their trick blade level -3. A trick blade does not suffer Arcane Spell Failure for wearing light armor, though he does for shields or heavier armors.
Blade Trick (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a trick blade can select either a rogue talent or a magus arcana for which he qualifies. The trick blade’s effective rogue and magus level for selecting talents or magus arcana is equal to his trick blade level. He may also select the Spellwright Dagger trick, below. At 14th level, a trick blade may select an advanced talent whenever he could select a talent.
Perceive Aura(Su): The Trick Blade learns early how to detect the ebb and flow of movements and magic. At second level, they may take a standard action to Detect Magic, as the spell, with the Duration of 1 round. During his next turn, he gains a +2 on attack rolls against any opponents within the area of this ability.
Sneakstrike(Su): Through trained reading of aura, little openings in the flow of magic can be seen; chinks in the spirit of another, for example. At any time that a Trick Blade attempts a melee sneak attack, or a sneak attack with a thrown weapon, they may choose to cast a touch spell as part of the strike; otherwise, this follows all rules as spellstrike.
Improved Perceive Aura(Su): The Trick Blade may now apply a +2 bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, Perform, and Sense Motive checks if able to use his Perceive Aura ability on the target(s).
You Don't Know Till You Try(Ex): By spending 2 Arcane Points, a Trick Blade may gain the bonuses of a single Rogue Talent for one round.
Spell Recall: As the Magus ability.
Greater Perceive Aura(Su): At 18th level, whenever the Trick Blade uses his Perceive Aura ability, it acts as though True Seeing instead.
Spectacular Strike(Su): Trick Blades who have mastered their art may perform a special sneak attack. They may choose to paralyze their opponent for 1d6 rounds (Fort Negates), put them to sleep for 1 hour (Fort Negates), or drain away arcane power to Fatigue the target and re-gain 1 Arcane Point (Will Negates). In all cases, the save DC is equal to 10+(1/2 Trick Blade level)+the Trick Blade's Intelligence Modifier.
Thief's Spellbook (Ex): A trick blade finds less time to research new spells, but has mastered an obfuscatory manner of scribing those he learns. At 1st level, the trick blade incorporates elements of a personalized secret code into his arcane writings. Creatures with whom he does not share this code take a -4 penalty on skill checks involving his spellbook. The trickblade's non-cantrip spells take one extra page each in his spellbook, and he gains only one new spell in his spellbook at each level after 1st. In all other respects, a trick blade's spellbook functions as a normal magus's spellbook.
New Blade Trick:
-- Spellwright Dagger: A rogue may spend an Arcane Point to generate a single Simple Light Weapon, such as a Dagger or Club, as a Move Action. They may enchant this weapon as per their Arcane Pool ability as part of the same action. This dagger remains in existence for up to one minute per Trick Blade level, or up to one round after it leaves the Trick Blade's hand; whichever comes first.
Trick Blade Spellcasting:
Level: Spells per Day (Cantrips/1st level/2nd level/3rd level)
1 -NA
2 -NA
3 -Na
4 -1
5 -1
6 -1
7 -1/0
8 -2/1
9 -2/1
10 -2/1/0
11 -2/1/1
12 -3/2/1
13 -3/2/1/0
14 -3/2/1/1
15 -3/2/2/1
16 -4/3/2/1
17 -4/3/2/1
18 -4/3/2/2
19 -4/3/3/2
20 -5/4/3/3
Gave them an appropriately cool ability in Perceive Aura that fits well with Sneakstrike's Flavor, and gave them Spell Recall- which means their small number of spells per day can go that much farther- without having to give them higher-level spells. Also made Spellwright Dagger a trick- I like the idea too much to drop, but as an outright class ability it just leaves something to be desired.
Fun Fact- I misspelled Perceive at least twelve times in my first few runs of this.
I'm still wary of giving them access to all the Magus Arcana, so I'm keeping that half-level to qualify matter in, but tossing out the other restrictions.
Whaddya guys think?
And something new:
Between life and death, a single veil, no more than a slim curtain guards the way. Lying just beyond it- rarely, passing through it- are spirits lost in the limbo of purgatory. The shroudsinger, trained in his arts, travels as a simple bard- finding ways to give these ghosts life, if but for few precious moments. They envelop and protect him in gratitude, granting him strange powers and advice...
Concept: A haunted bard! SPOOOOKY~
Advantages/Disadvantages to Bard:
Skills: As Bard. Already has all the oracle skills, don'tcha know.
Level: Special
1 Bardic Knowledge, Bardic Performance, Fascinate, Cantrips, Mystery, Oracle's Curse, Revelation
2 Versatile Performance, Well-Versed
3 Mystery Spell
4
5 Revelation
6 Suggestion
7 Mystery Spell
8 Dirge of Doom
9
10 Revelation
11 The Dead Dance, Mystery Spell
12
13
14 Frightening Tune, Mystery Spell
15 Revelation
16 Ghastly Waltz
17 Mystery Spell
18 Mass Suggestion
19
20 Final Revelation, Mystery Spell
Oracle's Curse: The Shroudsinger must select the Haunted curse.
Bardic Knowledge: As Bard.
Bardic Performance: As Bard, but only Fascinate, Suggestion, Dirge of Doom, Frightening Tune, and Mass Suggestion. The Shroudsinger also gains the new performances The Dead Dance (9th level) and Ghastly Waltz (16th level)
-- The Dead Dance: A Shroudsinger can raise the dead themselves from the grave, if only for a few fleeting moments. Calling forth the spirits in this way is a full-round action, even if the Shroudsinger's level would allow him to use other performances as standard or swift actions. At the start of the Shroudsinger's next turn, he may target a nearby corpse or skeleton to animate under his control. He may continue to select one target each round he continues his performance, so long as he does not control more HD of undead than his Shroudsinger level. At the end of his performance, all controlled undead fall, no longer animated.
-- Ghastly Waltz: Calling forth the spirits in this way is a full-round action, even if the Shroudsinger's level would allow him to use other performances as standard or swift actions. At the start of the Shroudsinger's next turn, two ghosts (Use the stats provided for a CR7 ghost in the Bestiary) rise under his command. Both are armed with a +1 Ghost Touch Rapier. At the end of his performance, they disappear.
Spellcasting: As Bard.
The Shroud Mystery:
What lies beyond the veil of death? Many heroes have fallen and risen, stepping beyond and back. But few remember what lies just beyond it, before the very afterlife; a purgatory where trapped spirits wail. The Shroudsinger is a conduit to these spirits, granting them brief moments of life once again.
Mystery Spells: Doom(1st), Spiritual Weapon(2nd), Speak with Dead(3rd), Divination(4th), Raise Dead (5th), True Seeing (6th)
Revelations:
--Know the Shroud, Know the Shadows(Su) You gain a +1 bonus on your caster level for all illusion spells. This bonus rises to +1 at fifteenth level.
--Army of the Dead(Ex): Great warriors often die with their techniques, but this is no barrier to a Shroudsinger. Select a single Combat feat you meet all prerequisites for, or Weapon Specialization in a weapon you have Weapon Focus for.
--The Ghost Butler(Su): As a swift action, the Shroudsinger may call for an Unseen Servant to provide simple service. He may use this ability for up to 1 minute per shroudsinger level per day- the time is spent in minutes, but does not have to be used all at once.
--Ancestral Advice(Su): Three times a day as a full-round action, the Shroudsinger may call beyond the veil for advice. This advice takes the effects of an Augury spell, with a 90% success rate.
--Lore of Beyond(Ex): Lost arts and secrets of those who passed in ancient times can be useful to a Shroudsinger. Select one spell of fourth level or lower from the Cleric, Druid, Wizard or Sorcerer lists; this spell is added to your spells known.
--Remedy the Spirit(Su): The Shroudsinger gains a +4 bonus on saving throws against Negative Levels. At 10th level, this bonus applies to allies within 40 feet. At 15th level, you become immune to temporary negative levels.
--From Forth the Demon Belows(Spell-like): Oftimes, the Veil is clouded by the passing of great evils. The Shroudsinger who seeks to grant these mighty souls one respite before their eternal torment may summon them forth as a Full-round action; treat this soul as a Vrock or Succubus. This is in effective a Summon Monster spell, and may be countered as such. A Shroudsinger must be at least fifteenth level to select this Revelation.
--Holy Beyond The Means(Spell-like: When a great good passes, the world weeps. But the Shroudsinger can bring back the souls of saints to grant a measure of their power. As a standard action, an ally within 30 ft gains the benefits of Death Ward and Greater Heroism as though cast by the Shroudsinger, as well as being healed for 4d8+20 hit points. A Shroudsinger must be at least fifteenth level to select this Revelation.
Final Revelation: The Veil is much like a curtain, now, something you can pass through with ease. You may cast Shadow Walk twice a day as a spell-like ability. In addition, the spirits of the dead are supremely grateful to you; once a week, you may cast Limited Wish, a gift from them.
I was on a bit of a roll, so I guess I got this done faster than I expected! I don't like the dead levels of 13 and 14- I want to put an ability into one of those two spots. :\ Otherwise, I love this guy. Might need some balance checks.
Any ideas for the missing shroudsinger ability? Opinions on either Trick Blade or Shroudsinger? I'd be glad to hear them!
Edit: Oh, also- I know, I know, Limited Wish is a bit of an overdone homebrew ability, but I like it here. Feels like it fits- though I AM biased. Anyone has a better idea, I'd be honestly glad to hear it >:3
@Trickblade Mk III
Lesser Trapfinding: My suggestion? Screw it. Give him the whole thing! It's an underused ability anyway.
Spells: Cool! Well done. Good synergy with the practiced spellcaster feat.
Blade Trick: I suggest you take out your Spellwright Dagger and replace it with Force Athame (From UM, p49) as a class feature replacing Improved Percieve Aura.
Perceive Aura: Cool.
A little Luck: What happened to this? It's not detailed.
Sneakstrike: Cool.
Improved Perceive Aura: Suggest you replace this with Force Athame (See above).
You don't know till you try: Suggestions:
1) Change the name. This is cumbersome. EXCELLENT flavor, but a very wordy feature. How about "Arcane Improvisation"? Or "Sudden Inspiration"?
2) REMOVE the blade trick gained at level five! Instead they gain:
3) Replace Language:
[b]Arcane Improvisation (Su): At fifth level the Trickblade with this ability tries a trick she has not quite mastered. When she
uses this ability, she selects one rogue talent (not advanced talent) that she does not know and can use that trick for a number of rounds equal to her level.
Using this ability expends 2 points from her arcane
pool, and if emulating a ninja trick, the trickblade must pay any ki point costs from her arcane pool as well. The trickblade need not emulate the ki pool trick to select ninja tricks that normally cost ki while using this ability, and cannot choose to emulate the ki pool trick.
Spectacular Strike: *Unarmed*, this is a DC34 fort save or die as soon as they fail the DC ~25 fort save for sleep or paralysis, which they can lay out with every single attack. Is that intended? Automatic heightened ghoul touch is pretty cool. If this power was only useable on any one opponent once per day it would be more balanced with 1 hour of sleep or 1d6 rounds of paralysis.
@Trickblade Mk III
Lesser Trapfinding: My suggestion? Screw it. Give him the whole thing! It's an underused ability anyway.
Spells: Cool! Well done. Good synergy with the practiced spellcaster feat.
Blade Trick: I suggest you take out your Spellwright Dagger and replace it with Force Athame (From UM, p49) as a class feature replacing Improved Percieve Aura.
Perceive Aura: Cool.
A little Luck: What happened to this? It's not detailed.
Sneakstrike: Cool.
Improved Perceive Aura: Suggest you replace this with Force Athame (See above).
You don't know till you try: Suggestions:
1) Change the name. This is cumbersome. EXCELLENT flavor, but a very wordy feature. How about "Arcane Improvisation"? Or "Sudden Inspiration"?
2) REMOVE the blade trick gained at level five! Instead they gain:
3) Replace Language:
[b]Arcane Improvisation (Su): At fifth level the Trickblade with this ability tries a trick she has not quite mastered. When she
uses this ability, she selects one rogue talent (not advanced talent) that she does not know and can use that trick for a number of rounds equal to her level.
Using this ability expends 2 points from her arcane
pool, and if emulating a ninja trick, the trickblade must pay any ki point costs from her arcane pool as well. The trickblade need not emulate the ki pool trick to select ninja tricks that normally cost ki while using this ability, and cannot choose to emulate the ki pool trick.Spectacular Strike: *Unarmed*, this is a DC34 fort save or die as soon as they fail the DC ~25 fort save for sleep or paralysis, which they can lay out with every single attack. Is that intended? Automatic heightened ghoul touch is pretty cool. If this power was only useable on any one opponent once per day it would be more balanced with 1 hour of sleep or 1d6 rounds of paralysis.
On Trapfinding, it's not exactly underused in my experience. Though giving them the full thing IS a possibility.
A Little Luck was taken out, forgot to fix on the chart, sorry.
Not going to reduce their number of blade tricks- and I'm already considering other name options for You Don't Know Till You Try, but I'm 99.9% sure Arcane Improvisation has been used already- and it's fairly generic. I've been thinking more along the lines of Recondite Fluke or Fortuitous Attempt.
And Force Athame requires the sacrifice of a spell slot, meaning that it couldn't be used until at least seventh level. I'd rather them have the option to pick it up far earlier, and the option to use it as part of a ranged attack- the Move Action is also helpful to them.
And... um... Spectacular strike is WEAKER than the rogue capstone. No, seriously, go look. I just lowered Master Strike's Sleep and Paralysis durations, took out the save-or-die and replaced it with the Arcane Point gain. If you mean something along the lines of Sneakstrike, I'm planning to make it so that they can't be used in combination.
:D
Sorry bout that, Elghinn!
I didn't have ANY solution for the MAD problem, I was just pointing out that it was there, and I noticed it. You should absolutely go with Dex/Int/Cha for the modifier though, and not make it con based, despite the complete logic and sense-making goodness of having it be a con-based poison.
(Hypothetical Thought of Academic Discussion +1) You can almost... -almost- make the poison a class-feature that can replace the sneak attack. If it scaled properly to say, 1/3 of the sneak attack dice like that. (End of HToAD+1)
I would consider a capstone replacement that makes his weapons always poisoned. This archetype is neat. I want one.
How's this for an addition to the capstone?
Venom Strike (Ex): At 20th level, a venom blade’s body is so suffused with poison that he can secrete it from his very pores. The venom blade gains a poison touch with the same effect as his blood venom that requires a touch attack to deliver. The physical appearance of how the venom blade generates and delivers his poisonous touch varies from venom blade to venom blade. In addition, a venom blade can use his poison touch to apply 1 dose of blood venom to any piercing or slashing weapon that is already in his hands as a free action. Unless otherwise noted by the venom blade, his weapon is always considered to be poisoned. This ability replaces master strike.
About your version of Blood Venom, do you think your damage progression may be too aggressive? 1d6 (max 6); 2d4 (max 8);2d6 (max 12); 4d4 (max 16); 4d6 (max 24)? Considering at 20th the venom blade could do poison dmage aevery round, + sneak attack (+7d6) at least twice per encounter? at least 24 every attack (3 attack = 72 per round) + 18 avg on sneak attacks for 2 of those rounds. Mind you, their chance to hit is less than a fighter, and they still don't stack up to a fighter for damage output...maybe we're good. Obviously going to the 2dX and 4dX is to show that the poison becomes more potent.
Here's the new form of Blood Venom (bold is my change).
BLOOD VENOM
Type poison, injury; Save DC 10 + 1/2 the venom blade’s level + the venom blade’s Dex modifier
Frequency 1/round for 6 rounds
Initial Effect 1d6 damage (2d4 at 11th level; 2d6 at 14th level; 4d4 at 17th level; 4d6 at 20th level) and sickened condition; Secondary Effect 1 Dex damage (1 Dex damage or 1 Str damage at 11th level; 1 Dex damage and 1 Str damage at 14th level; 1 Con damage at 17th level; 2 Con at 20th level) and the sickened condition persists; Cure 1 save (2 consecutive saves at 14th level)
Special Ability damage caused by blood venom can be healed by a DC 15 Heal check (DC 20 at 17th level). Each successful check heals 1 point of damage caused by the venom. The venom blade receives a +10 insight bonus on Heal checks to heal damage caused by his blood venom.
I added in a secondary effect increment at 14th level, so that it goes 1 Dex + 1 Str; +1 Con at 17th, and 2 Con at 20th. Is that too nasty? I think the ability to heal ability damage with a Heal check evens that out, plus with a Heal DC increase to 20 at 17th to show it's more difficult to over come. I think I'm going to go with this version. Now I need to re-replace my Greater Venom ability.
I liked your Virulent Poison idea. Could you do a write up of it so I can see exactly what your thinking?
I also added the following into Blood Antidite, so no misunderstanding will occure:
Blood Antidote (Ex): At 9th level, a venom blade can use 1 dose of blood venom to create 1 dose of antidote that functions like delay poison. This requires 1 hour of work with an alchemist’s lab and a Craft (alchemy) skill check with a DC equal to his blood venom’s DC. Unlike blood venom, an antidote, once created, remains potent until used. This is due to the change it undergoes to its chemical make-up. At 12th level, 1 dose of antidote functions as neutralize poison. [b]Blood antidote works as a universal cure against any form of poison, including the venom blade’s blood venom.[b] A venom blade can only have a number of antidotes in existence at any given time equal to his 1/2 his venom blade level. This ability can be used a number of times per day equal to the venom blade’s Intelligence modifier. This ability replaces improved uncanny dodge.
@Trick Blade
I'm pretty sure this line is a really big deal...
Once a creature has been the target
of a master strike, regardless of whether or not the save
is made, that creature is immune to that rogue’s master
strike for 24 hours.
@Venom Blade
You could shift the damage down to 3d6, but it ends up being fairly even with Sneak Attack, and part of the damage has a save! ;p Because of the L14 save-increase I'd recommend reducing/removing one of those steps, but I guess con damage at L20 is pretty redundant anyway. I've never gotten a character in Pathfinder past L14. At least there's saving throws against it, unlike some uber broken second level abilities some people get. If you feel it's balanced, leave it. I think L14 gets a big jump, but I haven't play-tested one vs another so...I like the heal-treatment option.
"I summon five lantern archons!" "I stab you with my poison knife again!" "Three of them make heal checks to remove the con damage, the other two heal me, DISINTIGRATE on your damned dirty rogue! ... and I missed. Stupid high-dex classes. Does a 10'x10' section of wall disappear over there?"
Persistent Poison (Ex): At 14th level, the set amount of time component of a poison’s frequency increases to the next higher time interval (rounds increase to minutes, minutes to hours, hours to days, etc.). This requires 1 hour of work with an alchemist’s lab and a Craft (alchemy) skill check with a DC equal to poison’s Fortitude save DC. If the poison does not have a set amount of time, this ability has no effect. This ability can be applied to the venom blade’s own blood venom. This ability replaces rogue talent at 14th level.
Virulent Poisons (Ex): At 14th level the Venom Blade gains the ability to enhance his poisons already altered by Master Poisoner (gained at 3rd Level). By spending half the base cost of the poison, he can make a Craft (Alchemy) check with a DC equal to the fortitude save DC of the poison, +5, to alter the poison in one of the following ways: Remove the onset time, reduce the frequency by half, reduce the frequency by 1 round. The minimum frequency for any poison is 1/round. This effect may be applied multiple times. If this crafting check fails by 4 or less, the gold spent on the alteration is wasted, but the poison is unharmed. Failing this check by 5 or more destroys the poison the Venom Blade was attempting to augment.
For Example: Black Whinnis, the deadly Venom Blade, has a Craft (Alchemy) check of 25 (15 ranks, Intelligence Modifier +3, +7 for his Master Poisoner class feature). He has come into possession of some Dark Reaver Powder, and would like to refine it for use on his jagged knives. Sitting with his portable alchemists kit, he cooks up the powder with some purified water, reducing it to a liquid form, and adding a few expensive alchemical reagents, turns it from an Ingested poison into an Injury Poison (DC 18). Refining it further, he removes the Onset time (DC 23), and reduces the frequency from 1/minute to 1/5 rounds (DC 28). Feeling this is not fast enough, he tries again, reducing it from 1/5 to 1/4 (DC 33), and from 1/4 to 1/2 rounds (DC 38). The last step is risky, but he rolls a 13 and makes the difficulty class on the number! He now has a dose of Dark Reaver Powder that has cost him a mere 1600gp to refine into a potent killing tool, capable of dealing 1d3 constitution damage and 1 strength damage immediately upon injuring the target, and an additional 1d3 constitution and 1 strength damage every other round for the next six minutes, or until the target manages two consecutive DC 18 fortitude saves. This all but guarantees the wizard will die after only a single dart finds his soft, pale skin. Wizards never were built very sturdy.
Black Whinnis could have refined the poison one more time to make it every round, but having to roll an 18 on the check or risk wasting 400 gold pieces, with a 13 or less destroying his poison entirely seems a bit too costly.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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I know you've already discussed Stealth Mage a few pages back, but how is Stealth Mage not just plain better than Wizard? I don't see anything a Wizard has that a Stealth Mage does not, unless I'm missing something...
P.S. Rogue/Wizard is my favorite class combo too ;)
The Stealth Mage loses the arcane bond class feature, which normally gives access to a spell at each level per day that is spontaneous. That's a big loss. I think the spells per day might be lower also, is that true Elghinn?
EDIT: Hmm, actually looking back at the PDF it doesn't look like the Arcane Bond is dropped. What IS lost by the wizard for the sneak attack, exploits, and rogue talents given by this archetype? Has this one ended up being totally unbalanced somehow?
Here's the new version of the Stealth Mage that Flak and I redesigned. It's much more interesting, balanced, and combines much of the stealthy rogue into the arcane school/arcane bond. Both he and I will be going through the original pdf to redesign all the Core Archetypes to feel and act more like the ones we've recently ceated. Our process and creativity has evolved so much that they deserve a redesign/refit.
** spoiler omitted **...
New Advanced Rogue Talent:
Invisible Thief (Su): A stealth magecan become invisible, as if under the effects of greater
invisibility, as a free action. She can remain invisible for
a number of rounds per day equal to her stealth mage level.
These rounds need not be consecutive.
Also, I wonder if giving her Surprise Spells at 1st level might be too early? It's a 10th level Arcane Trickster ability, and it's a really great ability to have because you could, in theory, cast a fireball in the surprise round and effect a TON of enemies with sneak attack all at once. I would say this should replace Invisibility Field at 8th level, and then make them take Invisible Thief if they want the invisibility after 10th level.
I also think this one needs a capstone... any ideas?
@Trick Blade
I'm pretty sure this line is a really big deal...Master Strike
Once a creature has been the target
of a master strike, regardless of whether or not the save
is made, that creature is immune to that rogue’s master
strike for 24 hours.
I rewrote the ability to read thus:
Spectacular Strike (Su): At 20th level, a trick blade has become a master of his art. Each time the trick blade deals sneak attack damage, he can choose one of the following three effects:
The target can be…
• put to sleep for 1 hour
• paralyzed for 1d6 rounds, or
• drain arcane energy to regain 1 arcane point, and the target becomes fatigued
Regardless of the effect chosen, the target receives a Fortitude save to negate the sleep or paralyze effect, or a Will save to negate the drain effect. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the trick blade’s level + the trick blade’s Intelligence modifier. Once a creature has been the target of a spectacular strike, regardless of whether or not the save is made, that creature is immune to that trick blade's spectacular strike for 24 hours. Creatures that are immune to sneak attack damage are also immune to this ability.
@Venom Blade
Virulent Poisons (Ex): At 14th level the Venom Blade gains the ability to enhance his poisons already altered by Master Poisoner (gained at 3rd Level). By spending half the base cost of the poison, he can make a Craft (Alchemy) check with a DC equal to the fortitude save DC of the poison, +5, to alter the poison in one of the following ways: Remove the onset time, reduce the frequency by half, reduce the frequency by 1 round. The minimum frequency for any poison is 1/round. This effect may be applied multiple times. If this crafting check fails by 4 or less, the gold spent on the alteration is wasted, but the poison is unharmed. Failing this check by 5 or more destroys the poison the Venom Blade was attempting to augment.For Example: Black Whinnis, the deadly Venom Blade, has a Craft (Alchemy) check of 25 (15 ranks, Intelligence Modifier +3, +7 for his Master Poisoner class feature). He has come into possession of some Dark Reaver Powder, and would like to refine it for use on his jagged knives. Sitting with his portable alchemists kit, he cooks up the powder with some purified water, reducing it to a liquid form, and adding a few expensive alchemical reagents, turns it from an Ingested poison into an Injury Poison (DC 18). Refining it further, he removes the Onset time (DC 23), and reduces the frequency from 1/minute to 1/5 rounds (DC 28). Feeling this is not fast enough, he tries again, reducing it from 1/5 to 1/4 (DC 33), and from 1/4 to 1/2 rounds (DC 38). The last step is risky, but he rolls a 13 and makes the difficulty class on the number! He now has a dose of Dark Reaver Powder that has cost him a mere 1600gp to refine into a potent killing tool, capable of dealing 1d3 constitution damage and 1 strength damage immediately upon injuring the target, and an additional 1d3 constitution and 1 strength damage every other round for the next six minutes, or until the target manages two consecutive DC 18 fortitude saves. This all but guarantees the wizard will die after only a single dart finds his soft, pale skin. Wizards never were built very sturdy.
Black Whinnis could have refined the poison one more time to make it every round, but having to roll an 18 on the check or risk wasting 400 gold pieces, with a 13 or less destroying his poison entirely seems a bit too costly.
I just have a few question?
1) Shouldn't the save DC of a poison thus altered increase in some manner, since technically it's becoming a more deadly poison? Perhaps the poison's DC should increase by 1 or 2 per alteration? Thoughts?
2) Above in the bolded (my emphasis), this doesn't make sense to me.
Removing the onset time is obvious. NO ONSET TIME if it had one.
"Reduce the frequency by 1 round" and "Reduce the frequency by half" need more clarification.
In all the reading on poisons I've done, it seems a posion's frequency is actually broken into 2 parts; the frequency of the save (or rate) = 1/round, 1/minute, etc.; and the overall duration = for six rounds, for 2 minutes, etc.
I assume these two alterations are to refer to these 2 different parts of the frequency. Perhaps I'm wrong?
I would sugget this read as thus:
Virulent Poisons (Ex): At 14th level, the venom blade can enhance poisons already altered by his master poisoner ability. If the venom blade spends half the base cost of the poison, he can make a Craft (alchemy) check with a DC equal to 5 + the save DC of the poison to alter it in one of the following ways: remove the onset time, increase the overall duration by 2 rounds, reduce the frequency by 1 round. The minimum frequency for any poison is 1/round. This effect may be applied to a single dose of poison multiple times. If the venom blade fails his Craft (alchemy) check by 4 or less, the gold spent on the alteration is wasted, and the poison is unharmed. If the venom blade fails his Craft (alchemy) check by 5 or more, the poison is destroyed. The venom blade can alter a dose of his blood venom in the same manner. Blood venom is considered (specific poison) for the purpose of cost requirements.
I need some suggestion as to what blood venom would be the equivalent to for the 1/2 price cost for an alteration. Or, since it's a "free" poison, should it simply take the 1 hour of work without a monetary cost?
I'm good with that fix, I had just skimmed master strike to check the durations when creating the ability.
The rest is good, then, Elghinn?
Also, looking for commentary/advice on the Shroudsinger. The two 15th level revelations should have 1/day uses, by the way- bit late to edit that in now.
[New Advanced Rogue Talent:
Invisible Thief (Su): A stealth mage
can become invisible, as if under the effects of greater
invisibility, as a free action. She can remain invisible for
a number of rounds per day equal to her stealth mage level.
These rounds need not be consecutive.Also, I wonder if giving her Surprise Spells at 1st level might be too early? It's a 10th level Arcane Trickster ability, and it's a really great ability to have because you could, in theory, cast a fireball in the surprise round and effect a TON of enemies with sneak attack all at once. I would say this should replace Invisibility Field at 8th level, and then make them take Invisible Thief if they want the invisibility after 10th level.
I also think this one needs a capstone... any ideas?
"Surprise Spells: At 1st level, you can add your sneak attack damage to any spell that deals damage if the targets are flat-footed. This additional damage only applies to spells that deal hit point damage, and the additional damage is of the type of the spell. If the spell allows a saving throw to negate or halve the damage, it also negates or halves the sneak attack damage. ..."
Would this not negate fireball, magic missile, etc.? Fireball specifically says it's fire damage, and magic missile is force damage. So, the question is, is there any spells that deal straight hit point damage. I guess we'll need some clarification from Flak when he reemerges.
Frankly, I'm OK with it if this allows fireball, etc. (which I think it's meant to). To be an arcane trickster, a rougue needs to be at least 4th level (+2d6 sneak attack, 4 ranks in certain skills) + 10th level arcane trickster = equivalent of a 14th level rogue. At that level, the arcane trickster can deal +7d6 damage. At 14th level, the stealth mage only deals +4d6 senak attack, plus it scales with level; +1d6 at 1st, +2d6 at 5th, +3d5 at 9th, +4d6 at 13th, +5d6 at 17th. It's a minimal issue, compared to what an arcane trickster could do. PLUS, you have to actually choose the "trickery" arcane bond to gain sneak attack damage.
As to the capstone, the stealth mage capstone IS the ranged legerdemain ability from his school powers. "...At 20th level, whenever you use ranged legerdemain, assume the roll resulted in a natural 20."
The first school power listed in each Arcane School is that school's capstone. Some have it scale with levels (...at 20th level...) like the ranged legerdemain ability for the stealth mage. I asked Flak about that right from the get go.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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[New Advanced Rogue Talent:
Invisible Thief (Su): A stealth mage
can become invisible, as if under the effects of greater
invisibility, as a free action. She can remain invisible for
a number of rounds per day equal to her stealth mage level.
These rounds need not be consecutive.Also, I wonder if giving her Surprise Spells at 1st level might be too early? It's a 10th level Arcane Trickster ability, and it's a really great ability to have because you could, in theory, cast a fireball in the surprise round and effect a TON of enemies with sneak attack all at once. I would say this should replace Invisibility Field at 8th level, and then make them take Invisible Thief if they want the invisibility after 10th level.
I also think this one needs a capstone... any ideas?
"Surprise Spells: At 1st level, you can add your sneak attack damage to any spell that deals damage if the targets are flat-footed. This additional damage only applies to spells that deal hit point damage, and the additional damage is of the type of the spell. If the spell allows a saving throw to negate or halve the damage, it also negates or halves the sneak attack damage. ..."
Would this not negate fireball, magic missile, etc.? Fireball specifically says it's fire damage, and magic missile is force damage. So, the question is, is there any spells that deal straight hit point damage. I guess we'll need some clarification from Flak when he reemerges.
Frankly, I'm OK with it if this allows fireball, etc. (which I think it's meant to). To be an arcane trickster, a rougue needs to be at least 4th level (+2d6 sneak attack, 4 ranks in certain skills) + 10th level arcane trickster = equivalent of a 14th level rogue. At that level, the arcane trickster can deal +7d6 damage. At 14th level, the stealth mage only deals +4d6 senak attack, plus it scales with level; +1d6 at 1st, +2d6 at 5th, +3d5 at 9th, +4d6 at 13th, +5d6 at 17th. It's a minimal issue, compared to what an arcane trickster could...
Oh no I think you're reading that wrong. The it applies to any spell that deals hit point damage, regardless of the type. Essentially, it lets you get sneak damage on spells that don't have an attack roll, like fireball and lightning bolt. Normally you can only add sneak dice to spells that have an attack roll, such as a ray (which requires a touch attack) or a touch spell like cure light wounds. So, for a first level ability it's probably WAY overpowered, given that with the arcane trickster you have to get to at least 15th character level to get it. (essentially, it's Arcane Trickster's capstone ability)
Ah, then yes I agree that's a good capstone. :-D
It's -all- hit point damage, so you CAN Sneak Attack with that magic missile :P
Edit: Darn! Ninja'd. - And how did I -forget- MM has no attack roll? Dx I'm a dunce today.
Is there a compendium of these?
Is there a compendium of these?
Not yet. That's what this whole thread is for. Creating and compiling.
[Oh no I think you're reading that wrong. The it applies to any spell that deals hit point damage, regardless of the type. Essentially, it lets you get sneak damage on spells that don't have an attack roll, like fireball and lightning bolt. Normally you can only add sneak dice to spells that have an attack roll, such as a ray (which requires a touch attack) or a touch spell like cure light wounds. So, for a first level ability it's probably WAY overpowered, given that with the arcane trickster you have to get to at least 15th character level to get it. (essentially, it's Arcane Trickster's capstone ability)
I think this is a simple fix. Why don't we do the following:
Surprise Spells: At 1st level, you can add your sneak attack damage to any spell that deals damage if the targets are flat-footed. This additional damage only applies to spells that require an attack roll, and the additional damage is of the type of the spell. If the spell allows a saving throw to negate or halve the damage, it also negates or halves the sneak attack damage. At 13th level, you can add your sneak attack damage to any spell that deals damage, irregardless of whether the spell requires an attack roll or not.
Alternatively, you can add +1 to the DC of any spell if the targets are flat-footed. This bonus to DCs increases to +2 at 9th level and +3 at 17th level. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Intelligence modifier.
I think this restricts the ability sufficiently, but also allows the stealth mage an improved version of it, but only by 2 levels. Earlier gain of the ability for the stealth mage, vs. the greater sneak attack damage of an arcane trickster. Perhaps even a little earlier? 11th? Thoughts?
I'm good with that fix, I had just skimmed master strike to check the durations when creating the ability.
The rest is good, then, Elghinn?
Also, looking for commentary/advice on the Shroudsinger. The two 15th level revelations should have 1/day uses, by the way- bit late to edit that in now.
Here's what I believe we have for the final version, barring any other issues? Pupleplexer? Bardess? whoever?
Typically, the trick blade is nothing more than a thief who came across a spellbook in early life, and was deeply entranced by the mysteries of magic within, while others are the black sheep of a sorcerous bloodline, or lack the vital spark to become a true wizard. Despite their magical deficiencies, trick blades learn to use arcane spells in small ways, seeking so much more- and finding ways to see it in others.
Primary Class: Rogue.
Secondary Class: Magus.
Hit Dice: d8.
Save Bonus: +2 Fortitude and Will.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: A trick blade selects three magus skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal rogue class skills. The trick blade gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 8 + Int.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Trick blades are proficient with all simple weapons, plus the hand crossbow, rapier, sap, shortbow, short sword, and one martial weapon of their choice. They are proficient with light armor, and with light shields. A trick blade can cast magus spells while wearing light armor and using a light shield without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, a trick blade wearing medium or heavy armor, or using a heavy or tower shield, incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. A multiclass trick blade still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.
Spellcasting: A trick blade casts spells as a magus and draws his spells from the magus spell list. His caster level is equal to his trick blade level –3. The trick blade gains bonus spells for a high Intelligence score.
Arcane Pool (Su): This is exactly like the magus ability of the same name.
Diminished Trapfinding: A trick blade’s can use Disable Device to disarm magical traps, but gains no additional bonus to Perception or Disable Device skill checks.
Blade Trick (Ex): Starting at 2nd level, a trick blade can select either a rogue talent or a magus arcana for which he qualifies. The trick blade’s effective rogue and magus level for selecting talents or magus arcana is equal to his trick blade level.
Perceive Aura (Su): At 2nd level, the trick blade learns to detect the ebb and flow of movements and magic. As a standard action, the trick blade can detect magic for 1 round, and immediately gains a +2 competence bonus on attack rolls against any opponents within 60 feet during his next round.
Instant Trick (Su): At 5th level, a trick blade can expend 2 points from his arcane pool to gain the benefits of any rogue talent (but not advanced talent) he qualifies for 1 round, and an additional round every four levels thereafter. The trick blade may choose to emulate a ninja trick in place of a rogue talent. Should the ninja trick have a ki point requirement, he must expend an additional amount of arcane points equal to the chosen ninja trick’s required ki points. The trick blade cannot emulate the ki pool trick.
Sneakstrike (Su): At 7th level, whenever a trick blade attempts a melee sneak attack or a sneak attack with a thrown weapon, he may choose to cast a touch spell as part of the strike. This otherwise is exactly like the magus spellstrike ability.
Improved Perceive Aura (Su): At 9th level, whenever the trick blade uses perceive aura, he gains a +2 bonus on all Bluff, Diplomacy, Perform, and Sense Motive checks made against any target of his perceive aura ability.
Advanced Blade Trick (Ex): At 14th level, a trick blade may select an advanced rogue talent whenever he could select a rogue talent.
Spell Recall (Su): At 15th level, the trick blade gains spell recall. This is exactly like the magus ability of the same name.
Greater Perceive Aura (Su): At 18th level, whenever the trick blade uses perceive aura, it functions as true seeing instead.
Spectacular Strike (Su): At 20th level, a trick blade has become a master of his art. Each time the trick blade deals sneak attack damage, he can choose one of the following three effects:
The target can be…
• put to sleep for 1 hour
• paralyzed for 1d6 rounds, or
• drain arcane energy to regain 1 arcane point, and the target becomes fatigued
Regardless of the effect chosen, the target receives a Fortitude save to negate the sleep or paralyze effect, or a Will save to negate the drain effect. The DC of this save is equal to 10 + 1/2 the trick blade’s level + the trick blade’s Intelligence modifier. Once a creature has been the target of a spectacular strike, regardless of whether or not the save is made, that creature is immune to that trick blade's spectacular strike for 24 hours. Creatures that are immune to sneak attack damage are also immune to this ability.
Thief's Spellbook (Ex): A trick blade finds less time to research new spells, but has mastered an obfuscated manner of scribing those he learns. At 1st level, the trick blade incorporates elements of a personalized secret code into his arcane writings. Creatures with whom he does not share this code take a –4 penalty on skill checks involving his spellbook. The trick blade's spells (not including cantrips) take one extra page each in his spellbook. At each new trick blade’s level, he gains only one new spell of any spell level or levels that he can cast (based on his new trick blade level) for his spellbook. At any time, a trick blade can also add spells found in other magus’ spellbooks to his own. In all other respects, a trick blade's spellbook functions as a normal magus's spellbook.
Blade Tricks
The following blade tricks can be taken by any trick blade who meets the prerequisites.
A Bit of Luck: The trick blade can expend 1 point from his arcane pool to gain a +2 bonus to a single saving throw of his choice, as an immediate action. This bonus remains until the end of his turn.
A Lot of Luck: Once per day as an immediate action, a trick blade can expend 2 points from his arcane pool to re-roll his last attack, skill, or saving throw. This must be decided before the results of the roll are given, and the second roll must be taken even if it is worse. The trick blade must be at least 8th level to select this blade trick.
Improved Spellwright Dagger: The trick blade’s can use the spellwright dagger blade trick to create up to 1d4+1 light weapons as a full-round action. He may throw these weapons as part of this action, up to his maximum number of attacks. Each weapon has a range increment of 10 feet, and a maximum range of 30 feet. In addition, each weapon thus created is considered a +1 weapon. The trick blade may further enchant each weapon separately by expending additional points from his arcane pool as part of the same action. The trick blade must have the spellwright dagger blade trick and be at least 10th level to select this blade trick.
Spellwright Dagger: The trick blade may spend 1 arcane point to create a single simple light weapon, such as a dagger or club, as a move action. He may enchant the weapon as per his arcane pool ability as part of the same action. This weapon remains for a number of minutes equal to the trick blade’s level, or for up to 1 round after it leaves the trick blade's hand, whichever comes first.
I changed the name of Lesser Trapfinding to Diminished Trapfinding to keep in line with Diminished Casting. I also renamed "You Don't Know 'Til You Try" to "Instant Trick". Any other name suggestions? I also made it scale with level; gain an unknown rogue talent for 1 round, +1 round per 4 levels thereafter. So a max of 5 rounds at 17th.
I also made the old "luck" and "spellwright dagger" features you removed into blade tricks.
Re-flavoring it as using arcane energy just to pull a little extra luck and skill to your side and calling it 'Recondite Fluke' is what I had planned, as far as 'Instant Trick' goes.
Otherwise, I like that! Especially the way you re-wrote ISD. I like that ability so much~ >3
Still hoping for replies on Shroudsinger- haven't heard a word on it yet. .w.
Edit: Oh! On the saves- I was thinking just the +2 to Will, not fort. Since they're more like 'roguecasters' than outright warriors, if y'will.
Re-flavoring it as using arcane energy just to pull a little extra luck and skill to your side and calling it 'Recondite Fluke' is what I had planned, as far as 'Instant Trick' goes.
Otherwise, I like that! Especially the way you re-wrote ISD. I like that ability so much~ >3
Still hoping for replies on Shroudsinger- haven't heard a word on it yet. .w.
Edit: Oh! On the saves- I was thinking just the +2 to Will, not fort. Since they're more like 'roguecasters' than outright warriors, if y'will.
How about we compromise and god with Recondite Trick, again to keep in line with the Blade Trick feature.
As for the saves, keep it as +2 Fort and Will. That's the way these archetypes work. It a core element of building them. You have your primary class, in this case, Rogue, and combine it with a magus.If you were to do a true multiclass with Rogue 10/Magus 10, saves would be: Rogue 10 = +3/+7/+3, Magus = +7/+3/+7. Combined they would be +10/+10/+10. A 20th level Trick Blade (Rog/Magus) has a save base of +8/+12/+8.
You use the base class (Rogue in this case) and receive a +2 bonus to any good saves your secondary class has (Magus in this case) that your primary class doesn't have. If you add all the save bonuses from a Rog10/Magus10 or the Blade Trick, you'd have 30 for both. But because the primary is Rogue, the Trick Blade has a Reflex save a bit higher (+2) than a true multiclass, and little lower (-2) Fort and Will. that's how it's been done from the get go, and that's how it'll keep being done. he only get a 2 point increase above the Rogues usual Fort and Will saves (from 6 to 8) at 20th.
Just wanted to explain how it works. Same with the Skills and ranks. That's why I changed your Trick Blade's ranks to +8 per level instead of +6. Rogues = +8, Magus = +4; Rogue is the primary class, you use the +8, and only select three skills from the magus class. If the Trick Blade had been a Magus/Rogue, then +4 would have been the primary, and because of the 2 step discrepency between the magus and rogue ranks per level, then the Blade Trick would receive +6 ranks per level, and select six skills to add from the rogue class.
As for the SHROUDSINGER, I'l take a look tomorrow.
G'night!!