Thinking about it: if your point is that it resembles more to a monoclass archetype- removing the double spellcasting would not WORSEN things?
Looks good! I like the new abilties.
How about this as the Level advancement?
1st Cantrips, diminished casting, hex, nature’s sense, witch’s familiar
2nd Wild empathy, woodland stride
3rd Trackless step
4th Hex
5th Herb lore, resist nature’s lure
6th Wild shape 1/day (beast shape I)
7th Hex
8th Leyline casting +1
9th Wild shape 2/day (beast shape II)
10th Hex
11th Improved herb lore
12th Wild shape 3/day (plant shape I)
13th Hex, major hex
14th Leyline casting +2
15th Wild shape 4/day (plant shape II)
16th Hex
17th Greater herb lore
18th Quick leyline casting, wild shape 5/day
19th Hex, grand hex
20th Sagacity of the wildIt keeps all the hexes, herb lore, and wild shape abilties at equal intervals. Then it keeps Sagacity of the Wild as the capstone, and moves Grand hex a little later than the full witch. Just a thought.
Also, I would add the following for variant druids.
Alternate Terrain: Although the elder sage is based on the woodland druid, he may select an alternate terrain at the time of character creation in which he gains the benefits of the herb lore, improved herb lore, greater herb lore, leyline casting, and wisdom of the woods abilities. Once chosen it cannot be changed.
Works for me. Also, giving Sagacity of the Wild a slight boost to make it a more attractive capstone:
Sagacity of the Wild: You no longer age or recieve physical aging penalties. Any aging penalties already recieved are not removed. In addition, you gain a +2 inherent bonus to either Intelligence or Wisdom, your choice.
I think that's a capstone people can get behind. >:3 If this is good, I can flush out the flavor and work on the Trick Blade, next.
EDIT: We need Wisdom of the Woods in that list, d'oh. How about 10th level?
Ok, I get it. You may really have a point here, but if it's so, then the Divine Magus should be changed too. Let's see what Elghinn thinks about it.
STUPID POST MONSTER!!!
OK, I went through the whole combined spells ability of the mystic theurge, and realized YES, the way I've employed it is wrong.
Essentially a 20 level Clr5/Wiz5/Mystic Theurge 10 would have a divine and arcane caster level of 15, with the ability to cast 8th-level spells in one class, and only 5th-level spells in another.
So we have two solutions for this, which should balance it out:
1) reduce Dead Shaman (and divine magus or any other similar archetype)
to casting 7th level divine and 5th level arcane
OR
2) 8th level divine and 6th level arcane spells
I would go for the latter 8th and 6th.
Either that or
3) allow 9th divine and 6th level arcane, then use diminished casting.
Those are the options.
Looks good! I like the new abilties.
How about this as the Level advancement?
1st Cantrips, diminished casting, hex, nature’s sense, witch’s familiar
2nd Wild empathy, woodland stride
3rd Trackless step
4th Hex
5th Herb lore, resist nature’s lure
6th Wild shape 1/day (beast shape I)
7th Hex
8th Leyline casting +1
9th Wild shape 2/day (beast shape II)
10th Hex
11th Improved herb lore
12th Wild shape 3/day (plant shape I)
13th Hex, major hex
14th Leyline casting +2
15th Wild shape 4/day (plant shape II)
16th Hex
17th Greater herb lore
18th Quick leyline casting, wild shape 5/day
19th Hex, grand hex
20th Sagacity of the wildIt keeps all the hexes, herb lore, and wild shape abilties at equal intervals. Then it keeps Sagacity of the Wild as the capstone, and moves Grand hex a little later than the full witch. Just a thought.
Also, I would add the following for variant druids.
Alternate Terrain: Although the elder sage is based on the woodland druid, he may select an alternate terrain at the time of character creation in which he gains the benefits of the herb lore, improved herb lore, greater herb lore, leyline casting, and wisdom of the woods abilities. Once chosen it cannot be changed.
Works for me. Also, giving Sagacity of the Wild a slight boost to make it a more attractive capstone:
Sagacity of the Wild: You no longer age or recieve physical aging penalties. Any aging penalties already recieved are not removed. In addition, you gain a +2 inherent bonus to either Intelligence or Wisdom, your choice.
I think that's a capstone people can get behind. >:3 If this is good, I can flush out the flavor and work on the Trick Blade, next.
EDIT: We need Wisdom of the Woods in that list, d'oh. How about 10th level?
So sagacity of the wild is worth 2 alchemist capstones? :P
Works for me. Also, giving Sagacity of the Wild a slight boost to make it a more attractive capstone:
Sagacity of the Wild: You no longer age or recieve physical aging penalties. Any aging penalties already recieved are not removed. In addition, you gain a +2 inherent bonus to either Intelligence or Wisdom, your choice.
I think that's a capstone people can get behind. >:3 If this is good, I can flush out the flavor and work on the Trick Blade, next.
EDIT: We need Wisdom of the Woods in that list, d'oh. How about 10th level?
I agree with Flak, I'd just keep the original Sagacity, unless FLak has a suggestion for a tweek? Otherwise it looks good.
As for Wisdom of the woods, either 10th or 11th.
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Mirror Blade:
Primary Class: Summoner
Secondary Class: RangerHD: d8
Skills: Climb, Craft, Fly, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (arcana),(dungeoneering), (geography), (nature), linguistics, perception, profession, ride, spellcraft, stealth, survival, swim.
Skill Ranks per Level: 6 + int modifierWeapon and Armor Proficiency: The mirror blade is proficient in all simple and martial weapons, and with light armor.
Brother's Blood (Su): The mirror blade has the ability to heal his eidolon brother. At first level the eidolon gains the ability to rest naturally as a normal animal or humanoid, regaining a number of hit points equal to his hit dice each night he rests, or double that with a full day of rest. Once the mirror blade has Life Bond at level 14, he may also spend a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity to transfer any number of his hit points to his eidolon as long as the eidolon is within 100 feet. This ability replaces cantrips.
Mirror Aspect (Su): The mirror blade gains his own evolution pool alongside his Eidolon brother. At each odd level 1-17 the Mirror Blade gains 1 Evolution Point that can be spent on any evolution the Eidolon has also purchased, but excludes ability increase, and he must meet any other evolutions requirements as well. At 19th level the Mirror Blade gains 3 points. Because this is a supernatural effect, the Mirror Blade loses access to his evolutions while in an anti-magic field, but the eidolon does not. The mirror blade can change the evolutions he receives from these points any time he can change the eidolon's evolutions. This ability replaces Summon Monster 1-9 and Gate.
Combat Style: At 2nd level the mirror blade chooses a combat style from those available to the ranger and gains a bonus combat style feat. Every 3 levels after 2nd (5, 8, 11, 14, 17, and 20) the mirror blade gains another combat style feat, or a teamwork feat his Eidolon also possesses. This replaces spell casting.
Eidolon: Because of the nature of the...
LOL Purplefixer and I keep making competing versions of things cuz his ideas are awesome... :-P
Purplefixer and I keep making competing versions of things...
Just my first draft stuff. If you have other propositions lets hear them so we can get an alpha build together! Have I missed any balance issues? Did I do anything stupid? Too many feats? Not enough? Will it flop like a Gunslinger or *RaWk* like a Ninja?
Does it do everything you wanted it to do? What would make it better? Does it really get all three good saves? Is that kosher?
Ok, I get it. You may really have a point here, but if it's so, then the Divine Magus should be changed too. Let's see what Elghinn thinks about it.STUPID POST MONSTER!!!
OK, I went through the whole combined spells ability of the mystic theurge, and realized YES, the way I've employed it is wrong.
Essentially a 20 level Clr5/Wiz5/Mystic Theurge 10 would have a divine and arcane caster level of 15, with the ability to cast 8th-level spells in one class, and only 5th-level spells in another.
So we have two solutions for this, which should balance it out:
1) reduce Dead Shaman (and divine magus or any other similar archetype)
to casting 7th level divine and 5th level arcaneOR
2) 8th level divine and 6th level arcane spells
I would go for the latter 8th and 6th.
Either that or
3) allow 9th divine and 6th level arcane, then use diminished casting.
Those are the options.
I would go for 3) How'd you make diminished casting? 1 or 2 spell less for day, for example?
Also: light armor without shields, or no armor at all?|
RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Purplefixer and I keep making competing versions of things...
Just my first draft stuff. If you have other propositions lets hear them so we can get an alpha build together! Have I missed any balance issues? Did I do anything stupid? Too many feats? Not enough? Will it flop like a Gunslinger or *RaWk* like a Ninja?
Does it do everything you wanted it to do? What would make it better? Does it really get all three good saves? Is that kosher?
Well, one thing I think we should avoid is the main character getting Evolution points, given that the idea is to summon copies of himself, not start mutating himself over time.
Also, the general consensus seems to be that the main character and his mimic/eidolon should not get to wear magic items in the same slots. Probably OP.
What do you think of the version i wrote up, with Ranger as the primary class and summoner as secondary? Or do you think keeping more summoner abilities and summoner spellcasting is essential to the concept?
Essentially a 20 level Clr5/Wiz5/Mystic Theurge 10 would have a divine and arcane caster level of 15, with the ability to cast 8th-level spells in one class, and only 5th-level spells in another.
Mystic Theurge trades out ALL other class abilities for huge numbers of spells though. It's an excellent way to overcome the fragile box they stuff the sorcerer into, because he gets so very many options for spells if half of them are prepared divine, and half are spontaneous arcane. You pay for that, though, by *sucking eggs* for four to eight of your first twelve levels of gameplay... through which most people never get through in a single campaign.
Maybe what needs to happen here is a completely NEW table. Either a vastly increased spell pool, or an exponentially increasing spell pool?
So we have two solutions for this, which should balance it out:1) reduce Dead Shaman (and divine magus or any other similar archetype)
to casting 7th level divine and 5th level arcaneOR
2) 8th level divine and 6th level arcane spells
I would go for the latter 8th and 6th.
Either that or
3) allow 9th divine and 6th level arcane, then use diminished casting.
Those are the options.
I would look at the 8/6 split, but it's very unbalanced as it stands. You can't just give them a pile of spell points to rip off whatever spells they want whenever they want, and casting un-augmented spells at higher levels makes them really sub-optimal choices for the most part, unless you can find significant combinations. Casting Fly as a fourth level spell is just -painful-.
Perhaps just give them late access?
"Upon reaching 5th level the Dead Shaman can add first level arcane sorcerer/wizard spells to his spell list equal to his charisma modifier. He may take one of these first level spells or a cleric spell of his choice. These are arcane spells in all ways, including all components and restrictions on arcane spells, but cast with the same spell-slots as the divine spells he has been casting. He repeats this upon reaching level 9, 13, 15, 17, and 19, for spell levels two through six, respectively. This replaces the Dead Shaman's spells known at levels 18 through 20. He does not cast 9th level spells normally. No 9th level cleric spells appear on his spell list."
Something like this? With bloodline spells, they would lay neatly on top as additional arcane spells he can trigger/cast, as normal.
============Dead Shaman Solution?===============
This occurs to me...
Level 1:
*Bloodline (as normal)
* Bloodline Curse (Specific curses related to each bloodline perhaps? I still like the new ones, though... and maybe some of the old ones could be related directly to APG/UM/Core bloodlines so each one has a specific relation? Or two choices? Might need to come up with some good new ones.)
*Orisons (as normal)
*Bloodline Power (as normal)
*Mystery (as normal)
Other Levels: For class features, give them just the Sorcerer bonuses for bloodline spells and powers. They never get mystery spells, but you can replace Sorcerer Feats with Revelations to keep the mystery feel! Shouldn't that maintain balance?
Query: Can you give the divine focus benefit to the shaman to prevent them from having to use material components on the arcane spells?
I would go for 3) How'd you make diminished casting? 1 or 2 spell less for day, for example?
Also: light armor without shields, or no armor at all?
I would suggest dropping armor entirely... but that's just a gut reaction. Waiting for level 5 for mage armor could hurt...
=====Burlesque Warden=====
Okay. Several issues.
BAB 20 + BAB 12 =/= BAB 15 + BAB 15.
The animal companion is a distraction, maybe a tank, but is never a real physical force. While I am highly ambivalent about whether or not a BAB 15 character will be of any use in a fight with no feats what-so-ever, I get the serious feeling that the nerfed eidolon given to the full-power ranger is dangerous for game balance.
Animal companions after level 9 or so are nothing more than a distraction for the monsters you face. They're uncompetitive and generally serve as speedbumps and flankbots. Eidolons, if I'm not mistaken, are supposed to be dangerous combatants. Battlefield zones of control. The Mirror Blade becomes a martial controller/striker, while the Burlesque Warden becomes... a lot of attacks of opportunity that don't hit anything?
Split Mimic and Mimic horde have a lot of nonsense language in them.
At 19th level, the Burlesque warden can further split his mimic into up to six identical mimics. Each time, the mimic’s total health and damage is split evenly between all of the new mimics, and if the mimic has the ability to attack multiple times because of its BAB, it loses the lowest two attacks in the series (For example, if the mimic’s BAB was +11, it would have one attack at BAB +11, instead of the standard three attacks). If one mimic is reduced to a number of negative hit points equal to its constitution score, that mimic is banished as normal, and each other mimic must make a fortitude save or be banished also. The save DC is reduced, however, to 10 + 1/2 the Burlesque warden’s level, rounded down. These split mimics otherwise function exactly like the original mimic. This ability can be used once per day. This replaces the ranger’s improved quarry ability.
Eidolons never get to the 4th iterative attack. They top out at 15 BAB. If you give every duplicate full power, I don't know whether to be worried that the action economy will be shattered, or if the whole thing will result in an unsatisfying, unfun 'flurry of misses' effect.
I think the game already balances your concern about magic item slots. By REQUIRING the slots to be monitored, the regular game Wealth Level will determine what you can afford to put on the eidolon. Unless your party is highly generous to their 'fifth member', you're going to be splitting your CWBL between 'two characters'. That means 4 +1 weapons instead of two +2s.
With the neat-ness of the ranger bestial fighting style I thought it would be neat to have a pair of secondary attack four-armed strikers available. I may have over-balanced, but I'm not sure... Maybe I should reduce the Eidolon EP by 10%? Or just by 2?
Hrm.
But yeah... split mimic (which we should avoid with the mimic monster already in the game!) seems like with the addition of haste, prayer, and bless, you'd be suddenly up to your eyeballs in attack rolls to make the necromancer weep for his lost undead army.
I would go for 3) How'd you make diminished casting? 1 or 2 spell less for day, for example?
Also: light armor without shields, or no armor at all?
Diminished Casting: The dead shaman casts one fewer spell of each level per day. If this reduces the number of spells at a certain level to 0, she may cast spells of that level only if she receives bonus spells of that level from having a high Charisma score.
I would also go with light armor, no shield. Shaman flavor = hide or leather armor. ALthough with all the extra spells, ditching it altogether might be the way to go.
As to the spell issue, Purplefixer's idea might be the way to go.
How's this?
Versatile Casting (Su): A dead shaman casts divine spells drawn from the cleric spell presented in Chapter 10 of the Core Rulebook, and may cast any divine spell he knows without preparing it before, like an oracle of equal level. Due to his nature, the dead shaman can learn a number of arcane spells by sacrificing his ability to cast 9th–level divine spells.
Upon reaching 3rd level, the dead shaman adds a number of cantrips from the sorcerer/wizard spell list to his orison spell list equal to his Charisma modifier, and may select one of these or an orison of his choice. At 5th level, he adds the same number of 1st–level sorcerer/wizard spells to his own spell list, and at every two levels thereafter for each subsequent spell level to a maximum of 6th–level spells at 17th level. The dead shaman casts these arcane spells as and in the same manner as he casts his divine spells. This replaces the dead shaman's spells known at 18th though 20th level.
Using mystic theurge as a measuring stick is flawed, I think, because he sucks. Dual spellcasting progression seems good, but the entry requirements ensure you suck until you enter the PrC (which isn't _fun_). In addition from an optimization standpoint they're not good because you lose tons of class abilities for weaker spellcasting (action economy means 2 spell progressions isn't actually power at high levels, just distraction).
I would give the dead shaman normal 9th-level oracle casting, not diminished. I would give him whatever amalgamation of oracle&sorcerer powers he currently gets. I would restrict him to hide and bone armor (see UC) as a true primitive barbarian, because that's cool flavor. No shields as Elghinn recommended. And then... I'm not sure and then. Why does he need arcane casting? I think I asked this before and didn't get a good explanation.
Rather than adding arcane casting, I think I'd add maybe some spell-like abilities from the sorc/wiz list if they're flavorful to the class. Could replace spell slots with them on a one-by-one basis. Like, "at X level, the dead shaman loses one of his level Y spell slots in order to gain spell Z as a spell-like ability 1/day/week/whatever."
If you want more crossover, come up with cool abilities. We do NOT need dual spellcasting on this guy. He doesn't need arcane magic. He just needs his divine abilities to run through his bloodline, in a way, I guess? IDK.
===
As for the issue of multiclass archetypes which ARE about casting lots of spells from multiple spell lists. I would give a single 9-level progression. I would allow bonus spells/day from both ability scores (if it's a cleric/wizard archetype, INT and WIS, etc.). I would allow them to cast spells from both spell lists in the single 9-level progression. The nature of the spell wouldn't depend on the progression, but on the spell itself. If it's divine, that's your cleric aspect praying for the spell. If it's arcane, your wizard aspect memorizes it from a book. If you learn a spell that's on both spell lists, you'd have to note whether it's a divine spell or an arcane spell.
How about this:
1) restrict to hide and bone armor
2) Only divine spell casting
3) adds his bloodline spells to his spell list, and casts them as divine
4) then keep the rest of the dead shamana the same.
How about this:
1) restrict to hide and bone armor
2) Only divine spell casting
3) adds his bloodline spells to his spell list, and casts them as divine
4) then keep the rest of the dead shamana the same.
Off-hand that sounds good to me but could we get a rehash of what exactly this would look like (advancement table mostly)?
Off-hand that sounds good to me but could we get a rehash of what exactly this would look like (advancement table mostly)?How about this:
1) restrict to hide and bone armor
2) Only divine spell casting
3) adds his bloodline spells to his spell list, and casts them as divine
4) then keep the rest of the dead shamana the same.
Table: Dead Shaman
1st Bloodline, bloodline curse, bloodline revelation, mystery, orison2nd Mystery spell
3rd Bloodline revelation
4th Mystery spell
5th
6th Mystery spell
7th Bloodline revelation
8th Mystery spell
9th
10th Mystery spell
11th Bloodline revelation
12th Mystery spell
13th
14th Mystery spell
15th Bloodline revelation
16th Mystery spell
17th
18th Mystery spell
19th Bloodline revelation
20th Final bloodline revelation
Use oracle spell progression and spells known, and add bloodline spells to his spell list.
Mystery: Dead shamans gain the oracle’s mystery ability, and may only choose from the following mysteries: ancestors**, bones*, or dark tapestry**. (*Advanced Player’s Guide, **Ultimate Magic)
Bloodline: Dead shamans gain the sorcerer bloodline ability, and may only choose from the following bloodlines: aberrant, abyssal, accursed**, infernal, or undead. (**Ultimate Magic)
Bloodline Curse (Ex): The curse afflicting the shaman is in his bloodline itself. He must choose one of the following bloodline curses, according to his lineage. This replaces both oracle’s curse and bloodline arcana.
Breaking Grip: Your unearthly strength is such, that it damages any object you wield or touch. Every time you hold or touch an inanimate object, it must make a saving throw or take 2 point of damage. This effect ignores the object’s hardness. Whenever you cast a spell that deals hit point damage, one target of your choice affected by the spell takes an additional 2 hit points of damage. This damage increases to 3 at 5th level, 4 at 10th level, and 5 at 15th level. This ability affects only spells that deal hit point damage, in whole or in part. Spells that deal only ability damage, or similar effect are unaffected by this ability. The dead shaman must have the abyssal bloodline to gain this curse.
Deformed Limb: One of your limbs is permanently misshapen and may a similar appearance to that of some monstrous creature. You either gain the lame oracle’s curse of the same name, or must wield any weapon as if you were not proficient with it (if you are not proficient to begin, the penalties are doubled). Also, you permanently gain one of the benefits listed on the Warped Polymorph Benefits table (see the warped mutated bloodline on page 73 of Ultimate Magic). The bonus granted by this benefit increases by +1 at 5th, and an additional +1 at 10th and 15th level. If you choose the “Quick” benefit, your movement rate bonus increases to +10 ft. at 5th level, +15 ft. at 10th level, and +20 ft. at 15th level. Any benefit you choose may not contradict the penalty you receive. For example, you cannot select the quick benefit and have the lame effect, or lack proficiency in weapons and select the vicious benefit. The dead shaman must have the aberrant bloodline to gain this curse.
Diabolical Terror: Your devilish visage causes fear in anyone you gaze upon. You take a –4 penalty on Charisma-based skill checks, except for Intimidate. Every time you cast an enchantment or fear spell, that spell’s DC is increased by 2. This increases to 3 at 5th level, 4 at 10th level, and 5 at 15th level. The dead shaman must have the infernal bloodline to gain this curse.
Hag’s Cackle: You have an exceedingly horrid visage which repels anyone you gaze upon. You take a –4 penalty on Charisma-based skill checks, except for Intimidate. You can cackle madly as a move action, just as a witch with the cackle hex, which allows you to extend the duration of any enchantment, curse, or fear spell you cast by 1 round. This bonus increases to 2 rounds at 5th level, 3 rounds at 10th level, and 4 rounds at 15th level. The dead shaman must have the accursed bloodline to gain this curse.
Unwholesome Craving: You must eat the flesh or drink the blood of another living humanoid creature, much like a ghoul or vampire, at least once a day that deals 1d4 damage to the victim. If this urge cannot be satiated, you take 1 Constitution damage for the next 24 hours, and an additional 1 Constitution damage for every 24 hours thereafter, to a maximum of 4 Constitution damage on the fourth day. This penalty persists until you can satiate your craving. In addition, whenever you cast a spell from the necromancy school, your effective caster level increases by 1. This increases by 2 at 5th level, 3 at 10th level, and +4 at 15th level. The dead shaman must have the undead bloodline to gain this curse.
Bloodline Revelations: Starting at 1st level, a dead shaman gains a new bloodline revelation, and an additional bloodline revelation at 3rd level and every four levels thereafter. The dead shaman can freely choose from among his mystery’s revelation or choose a bloodline power in place of a revelation. The dead shaman counts his archetype level for any revelation or bloodline power with level-dependent requirements. The dead shaman may also select from the following new revelations:
Counselor on a Shoulder (Su): You gain the Improved Familiar feat, even if you don’t meet the prerequisites. You gain a small outsider familiar matching your alignment, who acts as your counselor and intermediary with the spirit world. You must be at least 7th level to select this revelation.
Great Monster Armada (Su): You can summon the spirits of your bloodline to attack in a ghostly barrage, which creates physical wounds on any creature within the area through their otherworldly fury. The armada is composed of spectral, frightening shapes of demons, devils, aberrant monsters, ghosts, or cackling crones. These spirits wreak havoc in a 20-foot burst and must remain within 100 feet of the dead shaman. Objects and creatures within the burst take 1d8 points damage for every two dead shaman levels you possess. If you select a specific creature type that the spirits can affect–a traditional enemy of your bloodline or tribe–creatures of that type take 1d8 points of damage for every dead shaman level you possess instead. A successful Fortitude save reduces the damage to half. You must be at least 7th level to select this revelation. You can use this ability once per day, plus one additional time per day at 11th level and every four levels thereafter.
Wild Dance (Su): You can communicate with the tribal spirits of your blood relatives through a ritual that consists of wild and eccentric dances, eldritch songs, and bizarre rites that takes 1 minute to perform. After this ritual is completed, you enter a trance that lasts for 10 minutes. You can take no other actions and must remain uninterrupted while in this trance. When the trance ends, you gain mystical insight into the future. At 1st level, this mystical insight functions as an augury spell with 80% effectiveness. At 5th level, it functions as a divination spell with 90% effectiveness. At 8th level, it functions as a commune spell. None of these spell effects require material components.
Final Bloodline Revelation: A dead shaman is so intimately linked to his unnatural ancestors that he acquires certain bloodline traits in the form of his final bloodline revelation. This replaces the oracle’s normal final revelations. The dead shaman gains the following traits according to his bloodline:
Aberrant: A dead shaman of the aberrant bloodline gains DR 5/magic, 25% chance for normal damage from critical hits or sneak attacks, and a +4 resistance bonus against acid and fire effects. If the dead shaman is slain, he is reborn within 3 days of his death and gains the aberrant type, and takes on some of the visual aspects of that type (such as malformations, horrid appearance, blotchy skin, etc.).
Abyssal: A dead shaman of the abyssal bloodline gains DR 5/good, and resist acid 5, cold 5, and fire 5 and a +4 resistance bonus against electricity and poison effects. If the dead shaman is slain, he is reborn within 3 days of his death and gains the native outsider type, and takes on some of the visual aspects of that type (such as skin color, small horns, a prehensile tail, etc.).
Accursed: A dead shaman of the accursed bloodline gains DR 5/cold iron and magic, resist cold 5 and fire 5, and a +4 resistance bonus against charm, fear, and sleep effects. If the dead shaman is slain, he is reborn within 3 days of his death and gains the monstrous humanoid type, and takes on some of the visual aspects of that type (such as a bestial appearance, scaly skin, long nails, etc.).
Infernal: A dead shaman of the abyssal bloodline gains DR 5/good, resist acid 5 and cold 5, and a +4 resistance bonus against fire and poison effects. If the dead shaman is slain, he is reborn within 3 days of his death and gains the native outsider type, and takes on some of the visual aspects of that type (such as skin color, small horns, a prehensile tail, etc.).
Undead: A dead shaman of the abyssal bloodline gains DR 5/magic, resist cold 5, and a +4 resistance bonus against nonlethal damage, physical ability damage, energy drain, exhaustion, fatigue, and poison effects. If the dead shaman is slain, he is reborn within 3 days of his death and gains the undead type, and takes on some of the visual aspects of that type (such as pallid skin, cold to the touch, scent of decay, etc.).
Special: A dead shaman qualifies for the Expanded Arcana and Extra Revelation feats.
Well to me that looks like a spiffy multiclass archetype, especially once you...
1) restrict to hide and bone armor
2) Only divine spell casting
3) adds his bloodline spells to his spell list, and casts them as divine
4) then keep the rest of the dead shamana the same.
But here's a silly idea... how about making him Wisdom-based.
But here's a silly idea... how about making him Wisdom-based.
Probably not, since the Oracle is Charisma based, and so is the sorcerer. =p
But the dead shaman's all tribal ancestral wisdom blah blah :P
But the dead shaman's all tribal ancestral wisdom blah blah :P
:p
But the dead shaman's all tribal ancestral wisdom blah blah :P:p
You think I'm kidding. I'm totally not.
You think I'm kidding. I'm totally not.But the dead shaman's all tribal ancestral wisdom blah blah :P:p
Well let's pose that to Bardess, its his (his? hers? Bardess is a female name right?) ...its Bardess's build, so...and we haven't heard from Bardess whether our suggested fix is OK.
Obviously. I just wanted to reinforce that it was a serious suggestion, despite its original framing.
Obviously. I just wanted to reinforce that it was a serious suggestion, despite its original framing.
I know. That's why they need to add expression pics, thumbs ups and downs, and few other things to the boards.
Obviously. I just wanted to reinforce that it was a serious suggestion, despite its original framing.I know. That's why they need to add expression pics, thumbs ups and downs, and few other things to the boards.
Image tags for pony macros !!
I would go for 3) How'd you make diminished casting? 1 or 2 spell less for day, for example?
Also: light armor without shields, or no armor at all?Diminished Casting: The dead shaman casts one fewer spell of each level per day. If this reduces the number of spells at a certain level to 0, she may cast spells of that level only if she receives bonus spells of that level from having a high Charisma score.
I would also go with light armor, no shield. Shaman flavor = hide or leather armor. ALthough with all the extra spells, ditching it altogether might be the way to go.
As to the spell issue, Purplefixer's idea might be the way to go.
How's this?
Versatile Casting (Su): A dead shaman casts divine spells drawn from the cleric spell presented in Chapter 10 of the Core Rulebook, and may cast any divine spell he knows without preparing it before, like an oracle of equal level. Due to his nature, the dead shaman can learn a number of arcane spells by sacrificing his ability to cast 9th–level divine spells.
Upon reaching 3rd level, the dead shaman adds a number of cantrips from the sorcerer/wizard spell list to his orison spell list equal to his Charisma modifier, and may select one of these or an orison of his choice. At 5th level, he adds the same number of 1st–level sorcerer/wizard spells to his own spell list, and at every two levels thereafter for each subsequent spell level to a maximum of 6th–level spells at 17th level. The dead shaman casts these arcane spells as and in the same manner as he casts his divine spells. This replaces the dead shaman's spells known at 18th though 20th level.
What about mixing this with my original proposal? Give him this few arcane spells for Charisma up to 5th level, without sacrificing 9th-level divine spells. The arcane spells would be cast using a higher level slot (except perhaps cantrips), and ok for diminished spellcasting. I don't mind if they're just two or three for level, but some arcane spellcasting is REQUIRED for me!
Ok for light armor. Maybe we could limit him just to druid armor (natural = hide, leather, bones, wood).I guess I'd mantain Charisma for ability. A shaman's role in his tribe is a matter of PRESTIGE and how he can impress/intimidate his tribemates.
And yes, Bardess is a female name. I'm a she.^^
What exactly is the point of the bloodline? They get nothing for it. It's an empty choice as written. No bloodline spells, no bloodline arcana, no bloodline feats. Once again, you have an Oracle with custom mystery. If it did give anything, as written it's in addition to anything the oracle normally gets.
:D
I'm with Bardess. You need something arcane to make it actually arcane. A Dead Oracle isn't a bad concept and all, but if we're multiclassing here, let's replace the mystery spells with bloodline spells.
To get the Bloodline Powers you need to take the Eldritch Heritage feat chain? Something special to give them those powers at full progression would be nice?
Ok purplefixer at this point your "but it's not a multiclass archetype" is getting a bit old. The dead shaman's got bloodlines and bloodline arcana. Maybe you're not reading it right. "The dead shaman can freely choose from among his mystery’s revelation or choose a bloodline power in place of a revelation."
So my next wave of suggestion:
Give the dead shaman d6 hit die and 1/2 BAB. 2 skills per level instead of 4.
.... and then why not just combine spell lists if you neeeeeed arcane casting? I just reduced the oracle body to the sorcerer body, and sorcerers can in theory cast any spell in the game, so I don't think it'd be unbalanced to give full spell access to cleric and sorcerer lists. Especially since you've got limited spells known.
Maybe give the cross-blooded sorcerer archetype's drawbacks (will-2 and one fewer spell known per level) in return for giving full mystery spells and full bloodline spells.
"The dead shaman can freely choose from among his mystery’s revelation or choose a bloodline power in place of a revelation."
What!? Where does it say... it... oh. Well damn! I'm wrong. Sorry about that. I was under the impression it was always Dead Shaman Revelation, and not the ones previously listed. Not sure how that happened. Seriously, my bad.
Now that seems a little OP though. Sorcerers dont get to pick and choose their powers, why does the Dead Shaman? The Dual Bloodline tie-in makes it MUCH more palatable. Versatility costs focus. Good suggestion, Flak.
Reading all the oracle archetypes, those additional revelations are all -requirements-. Is it okay to leave that out with these bonus three (councilor on a shoulder, great monster armada, and wild dance)? It seems like something that I should have an opinion on, but I don't really. If there's a reason behind it, one way or another, I'd like to hear it. Just trying to get in your head.
Well... it's a bloodline power from THEIR bloodline. The dead shaman selects one bloodline and one mystery. Their bloodline curse (which is also an arcana) depends on their bloodline. Their revelations depend on their mystery. But instead of a revelation they can pick up one of their bloodline's powers. I don't see how that's broken or OP.
The three new revelations could be required I suppose.
Hum, this is a good suggestion Flak. Maybe we can use the Dual-Blooded drawbacks very well.
As for the revelations, I gave them as optional but it's true that oracle archetypes have them as requirements. Maybe I'll change.
Concept: A wise sage of the woods, friend to fey and beast, but who chooses not to simply protect nature but to learn the very magic of the land.
Advantages/Disadvantages to straight Witch: Entangle Hex is -awesome- at low levels. Also, Leyline casting makes up for having less spells by making that all-important first cast of a combat that much more powerful.
Weapon Prof: Simple only.
Skills: Add three druid.
HD: d6
BAB: Half.
Save Bonus: +2 to Fort
Level: Special:
1st Cantrips, diminished casting, hex, nature’s sense, witch’s familiar
2nd Wild empathy, woodland stride
3rd Trackless step
4th Hex
5th Herb lore, resist nature’s lure
6th Wild shape 1/day (beast shape I)
7th Hex
8th Leyline casting +1
9th Wild shape 2/day (beast shape II)
10th Hex, Wisdom of the Woods
11th Improved herb lore
12th Wild shape 3/day (plant shape I)
13th Hex, major hex
14th Leyline casting +2
15th Wild shape 4/day (plant shape II)
16th Hex
17th Greater herb lore
18th Quick leyline casting, wild shape 5/day
19th Hex, grand hex
20th Sagacity of the wild
Alternate Terrain: Although the elder sage is based on the woodland druid, he may select an alternate terrain at the time of character creation in which he gains the benefits of the herb lore, improved herb lore, greater herb lore, leyline casting, and wisdom of the woods abilities. Once chosen it cannot be changed.
Spellcasting: Add all Summon Nature's Ally, Plant and Animal Domain spells to the Elder Sages' spell list.
Diminished Spellcasting: Loses 1 spell per day from each spell level.
All additional Hexes are spell-like abilities and take a standard action to perform.
Hexes: An Elder Sage may select Entangle as a Hex. They may only have one Entangle effect active at any time.
Major Hexes: An Elder Sage may select Barkskin as a Major Hex. An individual may only benefit from this Hex once every 24 hours.
Grand Hexes: An Elder Sage may select Summon Nature's Ally V as a Greater Hex. they may only have one such effect active at any time.
Nature Sense: As Druid.
Wild Empathy: As Druid. Level counted as one less.
Woodland Stride: As Druid.
Herb Lore: Your experience and knowledge of the land you have studied grants you +2 Profession (Herbalism), Knowledge (Nature) and Craft (Alchemy), as well as Eschew Materials in wooded areas.
Resist Nature's Lure: As Druid.
Improved Herblore: Continued study of the land grants you +4 Profession (Herbalism), Knowledge (Nature) and Craft (Alchemy). In addition, while in wooded areas you may ignore material components of 10 GP or less.
Leyline Casting: Deep secrets you have unearthed through constant practice and a deep bond to the land beneath enable you to perform a potent ritual, increasing your spellcasting powers. By spending one minute meditating in terrain to increase the caster level of your next spell cast there by 1. This rises to +2 at 14th level. A number of spells per day equal to your wisdom modifier may benefit from this ability. Leaving this terrain will cause you to lose this effect, even should you return to it before meditating again.
Greater Herblore: You may ignore components of 50 GP or less in cost, in a wooded area.
Wisdom of the Woods: If you prepare spells in a wooded area, you may choose to prepare your Leyline casting at that time. The number of Leyline Castings per day does not increase, but applying them to specific prepared spells allows you to leave wooded areas and still retain the benefits. Once prepared, you may not change your Leyline Casting until the next time you prepare spells.
Quick Leycast: The magic of the land throbs beneath your feat, ready at your very beck and call. Once per day, you may prepare a Leyline Casting with a full-round action.
Sagacity of the Wild: You no longer age or recieve physical aging penalties. Any aging penalties already recieved are not removed.
Aaaargh. Okay, I'm pulling out hairs trying to write the Elder Sage out in a 'gamebook' fashion, so I'm going to leave it in functional form and move on, get a little done on the Trick Blade, and then hopefully clear my clogged brain enough to polish this. Everything here is set and ready to go, it just needs to be 'fancied up', so to speak. Sorry! ^^;
Moving on- Trick Blade, Rogue/Magus. I was thinking of giving them the Arcane Pool and Magus Arcana; and then giving them the ability to cast spells directly out of that pool. They'd know around one spell per level (Level 1 up to around eighth level, then level 2 until fifteenth, leaving them with level 3 spells as their max at high levels) chosen from the Magus list, caster level equal to half rogue level (Minimum 1) and have access to only certain Arcana like Pool Strike.
As far as their Spellstrike... I'm thinking only Spellstrike as part of a sneak attack.
Example of in-play: Trick Blade2 with a rapier who knows Shocking Grasp spends 1 Arcane Point. They then can Sneak Attack, and make it a Spellstrike. Thus they deal 1d6+(str)+1d6 sneak attack damage+1d6 electric damage.[/Spoiler]
With an Arcane Pool of 2, they could do that twice a day. Lessening the sneak attack dice as they level should probably be done, as well- I'm thinking a max of 14d6 at twentieth level. This means that they
They'd likely lose trapfinding, as well... And be more like sorcerers rather than having a full spellbook. Do either of these sound good to anyone? If so, I can have a basic write-up ready soon.
Hum, this is a good suggestion Flak. Maybe we can use the Dual-Blooded drawbacks very well.
As for the revelations, I gave them as optional but it's true that oracle archetypes have them as requirements. Maybe I'll change.
I remember when you were putting together the first iteration it was actually my suggestion to make them optional. I didn't see why they'd need to be set... but eh, seems fine to me to set them at the appropriate levels. How about this...
Revelations: Starting at 1st level, a dead shaman gains a new revelation, and an additional revelation at 3rd level and every four levels thereafter. Anytime the dead shaman could pick a revelation, he can instead gain a bloodline power available to sorcerers of his bloodline and level. The dead shaman's levels count as oracle and shaman levels for the purposes of selecting revelations and bloodline powers and determining the effects thereof.Additionally, the dead shaman must take the following revelations at the listed levels.
Wild Dance (Su): You can communicate with the tribal spirits of your blood relatives through a ritual that consists of wild and eccentric dances, eldritch songs, and bizarre rites. The ritual takes 1 minute to perform. After this ritual is completed, you enter a trance that lasts for 10 minutes. You can take no other actions and must remain uninterrupted while in this trance. When the trance ends, you gain mystical insight into the future. At 1st level, this mystical insight functions as an augury spell with 80% effectiveness. At 5th level, it functions as a divination spell with 90% effectiveness. At 8th level, it functions as a commune spell. None of these spell effects require material components. You must take this revelation at 1st level.
Counselor on a Shoulder (Su): You receive Improved Familiar, even if you don’t meet its prerequisites. You gain a small outsider familiar matching your alignment, who acts as your counselor and intermediary with the spirit world. You must take this revelation at 3rd level. Your effective wizard level for the purpose of determining your familiar's abilities is equal to your dead shaman level - 2.
Great Monster Armada (Su): You can summon the spirits of your bloodline to attack in a ghostly barrage, which creates physical wounds on any creature within the area through their otherworldly fury. The armada is composed of spectral, frightening shapes of demons, devils, aberrant monsters, ghosts, or cackling crones. These spirits wreak havoc in a 20-foot burst within 100 feet of the dead shaman. Objects and creatures within the burst take 1d8 points damage for every two dead shaman levels you possess. If you select a specific creature type that the spirits can affect–a traditional enemy of your bloodline or tribe–creatures of that type take 1d8 points of damage for every dead shaman level you possess instead. A successful Fortitude save reduces the damage to half. You must take this revelation at 7th level. You can use this ability once per day, plus one additional time per day at 11th level and every four levels thereafter.
(This way, a dead shaman can take Extra Revelation to gain either bloodline powers or revelations.)
Hit Die d6
BAB 1/2
Saves Fort&Ref poor, Will good
Advancement Chart
1st Bloodline, bloodline curse, drawbacks, revelation, mystery, orisons, shamanic magic, tribal armor
2nd Mystery spell
3rd Revelation, bloodline spell
4th Mystery spell
5th Bloodline spell
6th Mystery spell
7th Revelation, bloodline spell
8th Mystery spell
9th Bloodline spell
10th Mystery spell
11th Revelation , bloodline spell
12th Mystery spell
13th Bloodline spell
14th Mystery spell
15th Revelation, bloodline spell
16th Mystery spell
17th Bloodline spell
18th Mystery spell
19th Revelation, bloodline spell
20th Final revelation
Mystery: Dead shamans gain the oracle’s mystery ability, and may only choose from the following mysteries: ancestors**, bones*, or dark tapestry**. (*Advanced Player’s Guide, **Ultimate Magic)
Bloodline: Dead shamans gain the sorcerer bloodline ability, and may only choose from the following bloodlines: aberrant, abyssal, accursed**, infernal, or undead. They do not gain the bloodline's bloodline arcana automatically. (**Ultimate Magic)
Bloodline Curse: [as in Elghinn's latest posting]
Shamanic Magic: The dead shaman selects his spells known from both the cleric and sorcerer/wizard spell lists, and can cast any spell he knows using his oracle's spontaneous spell slots.
Tribal Armor: The dead shaman's spells are all semi-arcane, semi-divine. Due to tradition and his connection to the divine, he can cast dead shaman spells in bone, hide, leather, and wooden armor without incurring a chance of arcane spell failure.
Drawbacks: A dead shaman has one fewer spell known at each level (including cantrips) than is presented on Table 2-6: Oracle Spells Known on page 45 of the Advanced Player's Guide. Furthermore, the muddled nature of the magic to which the dead shaman is exposed forces him to constantly take some mental effort just to remain focused on his current situation and needs. This leaves him with less mental resolve to deal with external threats. A dead shaman always takes a –2 penalty on Will saves.
Revelations: [as in my quote box above]
Mystery spells: As a normal oracle, the dead shaman adds his mystery's bonus spells to his spells known at 2nd level and every two levels thereafter.
Bloodline spells: At 3rd level and every two levels thereafter, the dead shaman adds his bloodline's bonus spells to his spells known.
Final Revelation: [as in Elghinn's latest posting]
** spoiler omitted **...
I would use the magus as the base. Give them diminished casting (-1 spell slot/level). Give them the thief's spellbook ability I wrote for the stealth mage (see below). Allow them to pick rogue talents in place of magus arcana (advanced talents @ 12th level and up). Replace spell combat (and its improvements) with sneak attack +1d6 @ 2nd, 5th, 8th, 11th, 14th, 17th, 20th levels (max 7d6) -- the diminished casting & spells in spellbook progression help to mitigate this. Use rogue proficiencies instead of magus proficiencies. Replace medium armor and heavy armor with uncanny dodge/evasion-type abilities.
And maybe replace arcane pool with ninja's ki pool. Just a thought.
Thief's Spellbook (Ex): A trickblade finds less time to research new spells, but has mastered an obfuscatory manner of scribing those he learns. At 1st level, the trickblade incorporates elements of a personalized secret code into his arcane writings. Creatures with whom he does not share this code take a -4 penalty on skill checks involving his spellbook. The trickblade's non-cantrip spells take one extra page each in his spellbook, and he gains only one new spell in his spellbook at each level after 1st. In all other respects, a trickblade's spellbook functions as a normal magus's spellbook.
Oooh, I'm liking the spellbook idea, there.
I'm probably not going to do it quite like that, but I'm definitely going to be cribbing some of those ideas :P Thanks, Flak!
Oooh, I'm liking the spellbook idea, there.
I'm probably not going to do it quite like that, but I'm definitely going to be cribbing some of those ideas :P Thanks, Flak!
Sure thing. 's what I'm here for =)
** spoiler omitted **...
Aaaargh. Okay, I'm pulling out hairs trying to write the Elder Sage out in a 'gamebook' fashion, so I'm going to leave it in functional form and move on, get a little done on the Trick Blade, and then hopefully clear my clogged brain enough to polish this. Everything here is set and ready to go, it just needs to be 'fancied up', so to speak. Sorry! ^^;
Move on to your Trick Blade. I'll take care of putting this all in to "gamebook" fashion, and post the final version. that's what I'M here for =)
Move on to your Trick Blade. I'll take care of putting this all in to "gamebook" fashion, and post the final version. that's what I'M here for =)** spoiler omitted **...
Aaaargh. Okay, I'm pulling out hairs trying to write the Elder Sage out in a 'gamebook' fashion, so I'm going to leave it in functional form and move on, get a little done on the Trick Blade, and then hopefully clear my clogged brain enough to polish this. Everything here is set and ready to go, it just needs to be 'fancied up', so to speak. Sorry! ^^;
Hee, thanks! >:3
I'll have the Trick Blade ready for show pretty soon, then- getting in a couple rough draft ideas already. Definitely using the thief's spellbook, but I'm going to be keeping Magus as the secondary class- you'll see why tomorrow. ;3
Flak rewrote Dead Shaman - More Arcane, More Caster, More Legit?
Looks good!
My only final thought would be to make it spontaneous druid instead of spontaneous cleric, but that seems like going a bit too far...
Seems OK to me! We can approve it as it is, just... he's become a Sorcerer/Oracle now, rather than an Oracle/Sorcerer! Not bad at all, the flavor is unscathed and this way his tone of mild "insanity" is even increased...
Seems OK to me! We can approve it as it is, just... he's become a Sorcerer/Oracle now, rather than an Oracle/Sorcerer! Not bad at all, the flavor is unscathed and this way his tone of mild "insanity" is even increased...
So what's the final verdict? With all the back and forth, it looks like Flak's version above is what we're looking going with? That correct?
Seems so.
So we've decided to make it a Sorcerer/Oracle? And with fixed revelations at given levels?
Okay, here we go!
Concept- A Rogue who dabbles in battle magic.
Advantages/Disadvantages to a regular Rogue: Less Sneak attack, less trapfinding ability, less talents. Limited spellcasting and Arcane Pool allow for magical versatility.
Rogue/Magis
Skills: Add three Rogue. 6+Int per level.
Weapons and Armor: Light, Shields, All Rogue, plus one additional Martial weapon.
HD: D8
BAB: 3/4
Save Bonus: +2 Will
Level: Special:
1 Sneak Attack +1d6, Cantrips, Arcane Pool, Lesser Trapfinding
2 Blade Trick
3 Evasion, Sneakstrike
4 Sneak Attack +2d6
5 Blade Trick, You Don't Know Till You Try
6 Uncanny Dodge
7 Sneak Attack +3d6
8 Blade Trick
9 A Little Luck
10 Sneak Attack +4d6
11 Blade Trick
12 Improved Uncanny Dodge
13 Sneak Attack +5d6
14 Advanced Blade Trick
15 Fighter Training
16 Sneak Attack +6d6
17 Blade Trick
18 A Lot of Luck
19 Sneak Attack +7d6
20 Blade Trick, Spectacular Strike
Arcane Pool: As Magus.
Lesser Trapfinding: A Trick Blade may use Disable Device to disarm magical traps. Unlike a rogue, they recieve no additional bonus to perception or disable device.
Spellcasting: A Trick Blade learns a very limited number of spells, based on intelligence. They select spells from the Magus spell list. A Trick Blade counts their caster level as 1/2 their Trick Blade level, minimum 1.
Blade Trick: A rogue may select either a Rogue Talent or a Magus Arcana. They may not select two Magus Arcana in a row. Their effective Magus level for selecting Arcana is half their trick blade level. At Fourteenth level, they may select Advanced Rogue Talents instead.
Sneakstrike: At any time that a Trick Blade attempts a melee sneak attack, or a sneak attack with a thrown weapon, they may choose to cast a touch spell as part of the strike; otherwise, this follows all rules as spellstrike.
You Don't Know Till You Try: By spending 2 Arcane Points, a Trick Blade may gain the bonuses of a single Rogue Talent for one round.
A Little Luck: By spending 1 point from their Arcane Pool, a Trick Blade may add +2 to a single saving throw of their choice. This lasts until the end of their turn, and is an immediate action.
Fighter Training: Starting at Fifteenth level, a Trick Blade may count 1/3rd of their Trick Blade levels as fighter levels for the purpose of qualifying for feats.
A Lot of Luck: Once per day, a Trick Blade may spend 2 Arcane Points to re-roll their last attack, skill, or saving throw. This must be decided before the results of the roll are given, and the second roll must be taken even if it is worse.
Spectacular Strike: Trick Blades who have mastered their art may perform a special sneak attack. They may choose to paralyze their opponent for 1d6 rounds (Fort Negates), put them to sleep for 1 hour (Fort Negates), or drain away arcane power to Fatigue the target and re-gain 1 Arcane Point (Will Negates). In all cases, the save DC is equal to 10+(1/2 Trick Blade level)+the Trick Blade's Intelligence Modifier.
Thief's Spellbook (Ex): A trickblade finds less time to research new spells, but has mastered an obfuscatory manner of scribing those he learns. At 1st level, the trickblade incorporates elements of a personalized secret code into his arcane writings. Creatures with whom he does not share this code take a -4 penalty on skill checks involving his spellbook. The trickblade's non-cantrip spells take one extra page each in his spellbook, and he gains only one new spell in his spellbook at each level after 1st. In all other respects, a trickblade's spellbook functions as a normal magus's spellbook.
Trick Blade Spellcasting:
Level: Slots Per Day: (Cantrips/1st level/2nd level/3rd level)
1 - 2
2 - 2
3 - 3/0
4 - 3/0
5 - 4/1
6 - 4/1
7 - 4/2
8 - 4/2
9 - 4/3
10 - 4/3
11 - 4/3/0
12 - 4/3/0
13 - 4/3/1
14 - 4/3/1
15 - 4/3/2
16 - 4/3/2
17 - 4/3/3
18 - 4/3/3/0
19 - 4/3/3/0
20 - 4/3/3/1
So as you can see, they get 3rd level spells late, have a low caster level, and are obviously not meant to rely on spells as anything but short-term buffs and utility (with some neat bonus damage). They also have a few very rogue-ish ways to use their Arcane Pool. >:3
You guys like? Is there any area you'd want to see improved? Is the balance possibly off, or the unique spellcasting a bit awkward? Let me know!
Edit By the way, possible flavor for Sneakstrike- they rely on subtle 'chinks' in someone's aura, hence if the person is aware of them, it doesn't quite work... Sound good?
I really think a magus base would be better... there are a few magus archetypes which i think would just work too well (bladebound, for instance).
Also, caster level = 1/2 level? So his spells will always just suck.
They may not select two magus arcana in a row? In my opinion, the more choice we give players the better...
Fighter training... @ 15th level, they treat 1/3 of their level as fighter levels? Yay—so they can get weapon specialization. That's the only fighter feat they'll ever qualify for. "Your ability is the ability to burn your limited feats on ... a selection of one feat." It's just sad for the trickblade, man.
You don't know till you try => I love this!!
Spellcasting progression makes the 3.5 assassin look like a wizard. Also, a 3rd level spell at 20th level? Everything will automatically pass its DC, and at caster level 10 it'll hardly scratch anything. As for utility spells... magi don't have many.
Spectacular strike is cool, and could be used as a capstone for a magus-based trickblade as well (since I'd see them losing spell combat).
Anyway... nice first stab but I really think you're erring a bit. Like I said a lot of his abilities are just bad (spells and fighter training for two). I'd reconsider this construction.
Also, caster level = 1/2 level? So his spells will always just suck.
That IS the idea. They aren't supposed to be flinging around fireballs. I could raise it up a bit, I suppose...
They may not select two magus arcana in a row? In my opinion, the more choice we give players the better...
Nine outa ten times, I'd agree. But I figured this'd be a good way to focus on rogue-talents... but I suppose counting as half-magus level already does that, huh.
Fighter training... @ 15th level, they treat 1/3 of their level as fighter levels? Yay—so they can get weapon specialization. That's the only fighter feat they'll ever qualify for. "Your ability is the ability to burn your limited feats on ... a selection of one feat." It's just sad for the trickblade, man.
... Okay, Point. Very good point. I'll have to fix that up, maybe just make it a bonus combat feat that -could- be weapon specialization?
You don't know till you try => I love this!!
Ha! Thanks >:3
Spellcasting progression makes the 3.5 assassin look like a wizard. Also, a 3rd level spell at 20th level? Everything will automatically pass its DC, and at caster level 10 it'll hardly scratch anything. As for utility spells... magi don't have many.
Oh, let me count the ways...
1st level- Feather Fall, Floating Disk, Jump, Mount, Silent Image, Unseen Servant, Vanish2nd level- Alter Self, Fog Cloud, Gust of Wind, Invisibility, Levitate, Minor Image, Spider Climb
3rd level- Arcane Sight, Beast Shape I, Force Hook Charge (Okay, might be combat-focused, but it IS basically a Hookshot), Fly, Phantom Steed, Water Breathing
And that's just off the top of my head. Fairly sure there are other spells with nice, strong utility uses. :P
Could do caster level -3, minimum 1. That still fits with what I'd like to see for them...
Spectacular strike is cool, and could be used as a capstone for a magus-based trickblade as well (since I'd see them losing spell combat).
Again, I'm trying to do a Rogue-based one. I am glad you like the ability, though. >:3
I'm going to bump up the casting slightly, but I don't see them getting anything past 3rd level spells.
Here's the final version for Elder Sage.
Within the circles of the practitioners of nature magic, among the secreted and hidden covens of the witching power, they speak of an ancient wiseman of the woods; this then is the elder sage. Not completely one with nor wholly apart from the natural world, the elder sage spends his time among the woodlands–studying it, learning from it. This then is of whom the druids only whisper, at whom the witches stare and regard as both crazed and touched by the powers of divine patronage. A strange and awe-inspiring enigma, the magic of the fey and the roar of beasts do not give him fear, for within the elder sage is the very magic of the world itself.
Primary Class: Witch.
Secondary Class: Druid.
Hit Dice: d6.
Save bonus: +2 Fort.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: An elder sage adds three druid class skills to his list of class skills in addition to the normal witch skills. The elder sage gains a number of ranks at each level of the multiclass archetype equal to 2 + Int.
Weapon and Armor proficiency: Elder sages are proficient with all simple weapons. They are not proficient with any type of armor or shield. Armor interferes with an elder sage’s gestures, which can cause his spells with somatic components to fail.
Spells: The elder sage casts spells drawn from the witch spell list, but adds the summon nature’s ally spells, and all spells from the animal and plant domain to her list. She continues to learn, prepare, and cast spells as a witch of her level, and gains bonus spells for a high Intelligence score as normal.
Diminished Casting: An elder sage gains one fewer spell of each level than normal. If this reduces the number of spells at a certain level to 0, she may cast spells of that level only if she receives bonus spells of that level from having a high ability score.
Nature Sense (Ex): At 1st level, the elder sage gains the nature sense, and is exactly like the druid ability of the same name.
Wild Empathy (Ex): At 2nd level, the elder sage gains wild empathy, and is exactly like the druid ability of the same name.
Woodland Stride (Ex): At 2nd level, the elder sage gains woodland stride, and is exactly like the druid ability of the same name.
Trackless Step (Ex): At 3rd level, the elder sage gains trackless step, and is exactly like the druid ability of the same name.
Hex: At 4th level and every four levels thereafter, the elder sage gains one hex of her choice. This is exactly like the witch ability of the same name. In addition, the elder sage adds entangle as the spell of the same name to her list of hexes. This is a spell-like ability that can be used once per day as a standard action.
Herb Lore (Ex): At 5th level, an elder sage’s experience and knowledge of the woodlands grants a +2 competence bonus on all Craft (alchemy), Knowledge (nature), and Profession (herbalism) checks, and gains the Eschew Material feat when within that terrain.
Resist Nature's Lure (Ex): At 5th level, the elder sage gains resist nature’s lure, and is exactly like the druid ability of the same name.
Wild Shape (Su): Starting at 6th level, the elder sage can use wild shape once per day, and an additional time per day every three levels thereafter, to a maximum of five times per day at 18th level. At 6th level, wild shape functions as beast shape I. At 9th level, wild shape functions as beast shape II. At 12th level, wild shape functions as plant shape I. At 15th level, wild shape functions as plant shape II. This is exactly like the druid ability of the same name.
Leyline Casting (Su): At 8th level, the elder sage has unearthed a deep and long-forgotten secret concerning the bond between her magic and the woodlands beneath her feet. By meditating and engaging in a ritual that takes 1 minute to perform, the elder sage increases the effective caster level of her next spell by +1. This effect increases to +2 at 14th level. The elder sage can increase the caster level of a number of spells per day equal to her Wisdom modifier. If the elder sage leaves the woodland region in which she performed the ritual, the effect is immediately lost. The elder sage must perform the ritual again to reactivate the effect.
Wisdom of the Woods: At 10th level, whenever the elder sage prepares her spells in a woodland region she can simultaneously prepare her leyline casting and apply it to specific prepared spells at this time. In doing so the elder sage retains her leyline casting benefits even if she leaves the woodland region where her ritual was performed. The number of leyline castings the elder sage can initiate per day does not change. Once prepared, the elder sage cannot change her leyline casting until the next time she prepares her spells.
Improved Herblore (Ex): At 11th level, an elder sage’s competence bonus on Craft (alchemy), Knowledge (nature), and Profession (herbalism) checks made within woodland regions increases to +4, and Eschew Materials now allows her to ignore material components of 10 GP or less in the same terrain.
Major Hex: Starting at 13th level, and every three levels thereafter, the elder sage can select a major hex whenever she could select a new hex. In addition, the elder sage adds barkskin as the spell of the same name to his list of major hexes. This is a spell-like ability that can be used once per day as a standard action.
Greater Herblore (Ex): At 17th level, an elder sage’s competence bonus on Craft (alchemy), Knowledge (nature), and Profession (herbalism) checks made within woodland regions increases to +6, and Eschew Materials now allows her to ignore material components of 50 GP or less in the same terrain.
Quick Leyline Casting (Su): At 18th level, the magic of the land throbs in the elder sage’s veins, ready to answer her call. Once per day, the elder sage can prepare a leyline casting along with a full-round action.
Grand Hex: Starting at 19th level, the elder sage can select a grand hex whenever she could select a new hex. In addition, the elder sage adds summon nature’s ally V as the spell of the same name to his list of grand hexes. This is a spell-like ability that can be used once per day as a standard action.
Sagacity of the Wild (Su): At 20t level, the elder sage no longer takes penalties to her ability scores for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties that she has already taken, however, remain in place. Age bonuses still accrue, and the elder sage still dies of old age when her time is up.
Hex: The following hexes compliment the elder sage multiclass archetype: beast of ill-omen**, blight*, cauldron*, charm*, disguise*, entangle, feral speech**, fortune*, healing*, misfortune*, slumber*, tongues*, ward*, or water lung**. (*Advanced Player’s Guide, **Ultimate Magic)
Major Hex: The following major hexes compliment the elder sage multiclass archetype: barkskin, beast eye**, hidden home**, hoarfrost**, major healing* speak in dreams**, visions*, weather control*, or witch’s brew**.
Grand Hex: The following grand hexes compliment the elder sage multiclass archetype: eternal slumber*, life giver*, natural disaster*, summon natures ally V, or summon spirit**.
Alternate Terrain: Although the elder sage is based on the woodland druid, he may select an alternate terrain at the time of character creation in which he gains the benefits of the herb lore, improved herb lore, greater herb lore, leyline casting, and wisdom of the woods abilities. Once chosen it cannot be changed.
Table: Elder Sage
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Cantrips, diminished casting, hex, 2 0 — — — — — — — —
nature’s sense, witch’s familiar
2nd +1 +2 +0 +3 Wild empathy, woodland stride 3 1 — — — — — — — —
3rd +1 +3 +1 +3 Trackless step 3 1 0 — — — — — — —
4th +2 +3 +1 +4 Hex 3 2 1 — — — — — — —
5th +2 +3 +1 +4 Herb lore, resist nature’s lure 3 2 1 0 — — — — — —
6th +3 +4 +2 +5 Wild shape 1/day (beast shape I) 3 2 2 1 — — — — — —
7th +3 +4 +2 +5 Hex 3 3 2 1 0 — — — — —
8th +4 +4 +2 +6 Leyline casting +1 3 3 2 2 1 — — — — —
9th +4 +5 +3 +6 Wild shape 2/day (beast shape II) 3 3 3 2 1 0 — — — —
10th +5 +5 +3 +7 Hex, wisdom of the woods 3 3 3 2 2 1 — — — —
11th +5 +5 +3 +7 Improved herb lore 3 3 3 3 2 1 0 — — —
12th +6/+1 +6 +4 +8 Wild shape 3/day (plant shape I) 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 — — —
13th +6/+1 +6 +4 +8 Hex, major hex 3 3 3 3 3 2 1 0 — —
14th +7/+2 +6 +4 +9 Leyline casting +2 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 — —
15th +7/+2 +7 +5 +9 Wild shape 4/day (plant shape II) 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 1 0 —
16th +8/+3 +7 +5 +10 Hex 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 1 —
17th +8/+3 +7 +5 +10 Greater herb lore 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 1 0
18th +9/+4 +8 +6 +11 Quick leyline casting, wild shape 5/day 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2 1
19th +9/+4 +8 +6 +11 Hex, grand hex 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 2 2
20th +10/+5 +8 +6 +12 Sagacity of the wild 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3 3
Here's the final version for Elder Sage.
A few things I caught...
For one thing, the elder sage's sex is schizo. His/her switch-ups all over the place.
Spells: The elder sage casts spells drawn from the witch spell list, but adds the summon nature’s ally spells, and all spells from the animal and plant domain to her list. She continues to learn, prepare, and cast spells as a witch of her level, and gains bonus spells for a high Intelligence score as normal.
Should be "Animal and Plant cleric domains" for clarity. Domain names are capitalized, and it's plural, and they're specified in the cleric section.
Nature Sense (Ex): At 1st level, the elder sage gains the nature sense, and is exactly like the druid ability of the same name.
Wild Empathy (Ex): At 2nd level, the elder sage gains wild empathy, and is exactly like the druid ability of the same name.
Woodland Stride (Ex): At 2nd level, the elder sage gains woodland stride, and is exactly like the druid ability of the same name.
Trackless Step (Ex): At 3rd level, the elder sage gains trackless step, and is exactly like the druid ability of the same name.
These all are either missing or overabundant with words. They don't make sense.
Herb Lore (Ex): At 5th level, an elder sage’s experience and knowledge of the woodlands grants a +2 competence bonus on all Craft (alchemy), Knowledge (nature), and Profession (herbalism) checks, and gains the Eschew Material feat when within that terrain.
Should be "grants him" (or her?????). Also as written the elder sage's experience and knowledge gain a feat, rather than the elder sage gaining it. (It should be noted that one does not 'gain' a feat temporarily, as well.) Oh, and Profession skill names are all ... professions. I.E. what you are, not what you do.
I'd rewrite as such:
Herb Lore (Ex): At 5th level, an elder sage’s experience and knowledge of the woodlands grants him a +2 competence bonus on all Craft (alchemy), Knowledge (nature), and Profession (herbalist) checks. Additionally, he gains the benefits of Eschew Materials while in woodland terrain.
Moving on...
Resist Nature's Lure (Ex): At 5th level, the elder sage gains resist nature’s lure, and is exactly like the druid ability of the same name.
Again, this doesn't make sense.
Improved Herblore (Ex): At 11th level, an elder sage’s competence bonus on Craft (alchemy), Knowledge (nature), and Profession (herbalism) checks made within woodland regions increases to +4, and Eschew Materials now allows her to ignore material components of 10 GP or less in the same terrain.
Again. Profession (herbalist). Also should be, "ignore material components with a value of up to 10 GP." I'm not sure any spell has a material component between 0 GP and 10 GP, by the way, so this might just be cruft.
Finally... is it herb lore or herblore? The unimproved version is "herb lore..."
Greater Herblore (Ex): At 17th level, an elder sage’s competence bonus on Craft (alchemy), Knowledge (nature), and Profession (herbalism) checks made within woodland regions increases to +6, and Eschew Materials now allows her to ignore material components of 50 GP or less in the same terrain.
Again. Profession (herbalist). Also should be, "ignore material components with a value of up to 50 GP." I'm not sure any spell has a material component between 0 GP and 10 GP, by the way, so this might just be cruft.
Finally... is it herb lore or herblore? The unimproved version is "herb lore..."
(I feel like I'm repeating myself haha.)
Anyway... almost there...
Here's the final version for Elder Sage.A few things I caught...
For one thing, the elder sage's sex is schizo. His/her switch-ups all over the place.
Spells: The elder sage casts spells drawn from the witch spell list, but adds the summon nature’s ally spells, and all spells from the animal and plant domain to her list. She continues to learn, prepare, and cast spells as a witch of her level, and gains bonus spells for a high Intelligence score as normal.Should be "Animal and Plant cleric domains" for clarity. Domain names are capitalized, and it's plural, and they're specified in the cleric section.
FIXED
Nature Sense (Ex): At 1st level, the elder sage gains the nature sense, and is exactly like the druid ability of the same name.
Wild Empathy (Ex): At 2nd level, the elder sage gains wild empathy, and is exactly like the druid ability of the same name.
Woodland Stride (Ex): At 2nd level, the elder sage gains woodland stride, and is exactly like the druid ability of the same name.
Trackless Step (Ex): At 3rd level, the elder sage gains trackless step, and is exactly like the druid ability of the same name.
These all are either missing or overabundant with words. They don't make sense.
The all now say (including Resist Nature's Lure): This is exactly like the druid ability of the same name.
Herb Lore (Ex): At 5th level, an elder sage’s experience and knowledge of the woodlands grants a +2 competence bonus on all Craft (alchemy), Knowledge (nature), and Profession (herbalism) checks, and gains the Eschew Material feat when within that terrain.Should be "grants him" (or her?????). Also as written the elder sage's experience and knowledge gain a feat, rather than the elder sage gaining it. (It should be noted that one does not 'gain' a feat temporarily, as well.) Oh, and Profession skill names are all ... professions. I.E. what you are, not what you do.
I'd rewrite as such:
Herb Lore (Ex): At 5th level, an elder sage’s experience and knowledge of the woodlands grants him a +2...
FIXED
Should be Herb Lore, Improved Herb Lore, and Greater Herb Lore
"ignore material components with a value of up to 10 GP/ 50 GP." I'm not sure any spell has a material component between 0 GP and 10 GP (of 10 GP and 50 GP), by the way, so this might just be cruft.
What would you suggest?
Improved Herb Lore: up to 100gp?
Greater Herb Lore: up to 250 gp?
Any way for us to easily check the range of material component costs?