I longed for a conversion to Pathfinder of all the Holy Warriors (there's also a 3.5 version on Dragon Magazine 310-312), but maybe these are as many alternate classes rather than multiclass archetypes. Should we open another thread?
For the Dreadknight, why not Antipaladin mixed with witch?
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I'm a bit confused now --
is it being proposed that clr/pal be an 'angel knight'/'2E holy warrior' or is it being proposed that the celestial knight -- which is quite nice btw -- be an 'angel knight'/'2E holy warrior' ? Or or or, you know what, I'm shutting up now. Let's see what happens.
Wow, you are confused.
Everything I said was in reference to your Divine Exemplar. What I'm saying is that is has a flavor like unto the seven 2E "Holy Warriors" but all compiled into one archetype, which allows the player to select his specific alignment. You may (or may not) want to change its name to holy warrior or divine warrior.
Angel Knight is the suggested name change for the celestial knight. I think Angelic Knight sounds better than angel knight.
QUESTION: I need more explanation on the aura ability. I kinda get it, but not quite. What "aura effects" are you refering to?
Alright, gonna keep looking at it more.
BTW: Started working on the Alch/Rog archetype. Called it the Toxic Knave (working name for now), based on being a living walking poison source, where he becomes resistant/immune to poison, and later is infused with the alchemic poison itself. This allows him to use his own blood as a poison to apply his weapons (but doing so costs him 1 temp Con damage each time he does so). Still working out the specifics and details, but that's the general idea. He essentailly becomes a poison delivery system (maybe injection at first, then at highest levesl exudes poison from his skin = contact poison that sickens, nauseates, etc.)
The Toxic Knave sounds awesome! If you need some help with it, let me know. You could include the Mutagenic poison that I had put with the Mutant Hag as a Discovery option, too. Maybe even some way of using poisons as a healing potion at higher levels? (Drink a vial of poison, it acts as one of the cure spells based on the DC of the poison?)
Neutral divine exemplars instead receive the constant benefits of a different magic circle spell as a supernatural effect at each of these levels. The magic circle effect cannot ward against an aspect of the divine exemplar's alignment (so a chaotic neutral divine exemplar cannot select magic circle against chaos). The DC for this effect is equal to 10 + 1/2 the divine exemplar's level + the divine exemplar's Charisma bonus. This otherwise functions as, and replaces, the cleric's aura ability.Does the above include 1st level for LN/N/CN?
This is for clarification.
At 1st level a LG/NG/CG divine exemplar = aura of good; LE/NE/CE = aura of evil.
That's obvious.
Then, does LN = aura of law, CN = aura of chaos, and N = ???; OR is it LN/N/CN may select from Magic circle against chaos/evil/good/law, but not one that would oppose himself, such as LN selecting magic circle against law.
Obviously you have 6th/12th/18th level that LN/N/CN may select from Magic circle against chaos/evil/good/law, but not one that would oppose himself, again such as LN selecting magic circle against law.
I'm not being a jerk, just making sure I understand how this works. There's nothing worse then having someone completely misunderstand something you're trying to describe.
No, it does not include 1st level (because it says "at each of these levels" i.e. 6, 12, 18).
Who gets what auras:
LG has aura of good and aura of law.
LN has aura of law.
LE has aura of evil and aura of law.
CG has aura of good and aura of chaos.
CN has aura of chaos.
CE has aura of evil and aura of chaos.
NG has aura of good.
NE has aura of evil.
TN has no aura, because if "At 1st level, a divine exemplar has auras of all his non-neutral alignment components, as a paladin of his level," and he has no non-neutral alignment components, he has no auras. I'm a bit startled since it seemed straightforward to me...
Aura Advancement:
6th level: LG, NG, CG get aura of courage. LE, NE, CE get aura of cowardice. LN, TN, CN get magic circle against [alignment that they don't have].
12th level: LG, NG, CG get aura of resolve or justice. LE, NE, CE get aura of despair or vengeance. LN, TN, CN get magic circle against [a second alignment that they don't have].
18th level: LG, NG, CG get aura of resolve or justice or faith or righteousness. LE, NE, CE get aura of despair or vengeance or sin or depravity. LN, TN, CN get magic circle against [a third alignment that they don't have].
I'm just going to repost the ability as initially written here.
Aura (Su): A divine exemplar's aura is more potent than that of an ordinary cleric. At 1st level, a divine exemplar has auras of all his non-neutral alignment components, as a paladin of his level.
At 6th level, and every six levels thereafter, good divine exemplars select and add one aura effect that a paladin gains by that level. Evil divine exemplars likewise select aura effects from the antipaladin's list. Neutral divine exemplars instead receive the constant benefits of a different magic circle spell as a supernatural effect at each of these levels. The magic circle effect cannot ward against an aspect of the divine exemplar's alignment (so a chaotic neutral divine exemplar cannot select magic circle against chaos). The DC for this effect is equal to 10 + 1/2 the divine exemplar's level + the divine exemplar's Charisma bonus. This otherwise functions as, and replaces, the cleric's aura ability.
You tell me which parts of it aren't clear, ok? I want it to be easily understood, but I can't see where the disconnects are happening. Thanks!
For the Dreadknight, why not Antipaladin mixed with witch?
\
Pretty sure there's already an antipaladin-witch, more focused on corruption & blight etc.
For the Dreadknight, why not Antipaladin mixed with witch?\
Pretty sure there's already an antipaladin-witch, more focused on corruption & blight etc.
Yes, the Plague Bringer.
PLAGUE BRINGER
Plague bringers combine the corruptive power of an antipaladin with the potent and disparaging hexes of a witch. She can use her touch of corruption to deliver damage and cruel side effects, spread disease, cast spells, and perform hexes to demoralize and affect her opponents with virulent diseases.
Primary Class: Witch.
Secondary Class: Antipaladin.
Hit Dice: d8.
Save Bonus: +2 Fortitude.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: Plague bringers may select three antipaladin skills to add to her class skills in addition to the normal witch class skills. The plague bringer gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 2 + Int.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Plague bringers are proficient with all simple and light martial weapons, with light armor, but not with shields.
Spellcasting: Plague bringers casts spells from both the witch and antipaladin spell lists. They cast spells at a caster level equal to their plague bringer level and favor spells that cause pain, disease, corruption and death.
Code of Conduct: A plague bringer must adhere to the guidelines presented in the antipaladin’s code of conduct.
Light Armor (Ex): A plague bringer can cast her spells without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance only if she is wearing light or no armor. A plague bringer wearing medium armor, heavy armor or using a shield incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component.
Touch of Corruption (Su): At 2nd level, a plague bringer gains the antipaladin touch of corruption ability in place of hex at 2nd level. Each day she can use this ability a number of times equal to 3 + her Charisma modifier. As a touch attack, a plague bringer can cause 1d6 points of damage for every four plague bringer levels she possesses, to a total of 5d6 damage at 18th level. Using this ability is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.
Plague Bringer (Su): At 6th level, a plague bringer gains the antipaladin plague bringer ability in place of hex at 6th level.
Cruelty (Su): At 10th level, and every four levels thereafter, a plague bringer selects one cruelty of the antipaladin class in place of a hex. Each cruelty adds an effect to the plague bringer’s touch of corruption ability, in addition to the damage. The target receives a Fortitude save (DC 10 +1/ the plague bringer’s level + the plague bringer’s Charisma modifier) to avoid this cruelty. If the save is successful, the target takes the damage as normal, but not the effects of the cruelty. At 10th level, the plague bringer can select from the fatigued, shaken, or sickened cruelties. At 14th level, the plague bringer can select from the dazed, diseased, and staggered cruelties.
At 18th level, the plague bringer can select from the cursed, exhausted, frightened, nauseated, and poisoned cruelties.
Patron Themes: The following patron themes complement the plague bringer multiclass archetype: death*, plague. (*Ultimate Magic)
Hexes: The following hexes complement the plague bringer multiclass archetype: beast of ill-omen*, blight, charm, evil eye, nails*, poison steep*. (*Ultimate Magic)
Greater Hexes: The following greater hexes complement the plague bringer multiclass archetype: agony, infected wounds*, retribution. (*Ultimate Magic)
Grand Hexes: The following grand hexes complement the plague bringer multiclass archetype: death curse, dire prophecy*. (*Ultimate Magic)
Special: The plague bringer qualifies for the Extra Lay on Hands (Touch of Corruption), Extra Mercy (Cruelty), and Extra Hex feats, but is treated as having an antipaladin level equal to 1/2 his plague bringer level for level-dependent requirements.
Table: Plague Bringer
Base
Class Attack Fort Ref Will Spells per Day
Level Bonus Save Save Save Special 0 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st +0 +2 +0 +2 Cantrips, hex, light armor, 3 1 — — — — — — — —
witch’s familiar
2nd +1 +2 +0 +3 Touch of corruption 4 2 — — — — — — — —
3rd +1 +3 +1 +3 4 2 1 — — — — — — —
4th +2 +3 +1 +4 Hex 4 3 2 — — — — — — —
5th +2 +3 +1 +4 4 3 2 1 — — — — — —
6th +3 +4 +2 +5 Plague bringer 4 3 3 2 — — — — — —
7th +3 +4 +2 +5 4 4 3 2 1 — — — — —
8th +4 +4 +2 +6 Hex 4 4 3 3 2 — — — — —
9th +4 +5 +3 +6 4 4 4 3 2 1 — — — —
10th +5 +5 +3 +7 Cruelty, major hex 4 4 4 3 3 2 — — — —
11th +5 +5 +3 +7 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 — — —
12th +6/+1 +6 +4 +8 Hex 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 — — —
13th +6/+1 +6 +4 +8 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 — —
14th +7/+2 +6 +4 +9 Cruelty, 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 — —
15th +7/+2 +7 +5 +9 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1 —
16th +8/+3 +7 +5 +10 Hex 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2 —
17th +8/+3 +7 +5 +10 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 2 1
18th +9/+4 +8 +6 +11 Cruelty, grand hex 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3 2
19th +9/+4 +8 +6 +11 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 3 3
20th +10/+5 +8 +6 +12 Hex 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4 4
...No, it does not include 1st level (because it says "at each of these levels" i.e. 6, 12, 18).
Who gets what auras:
LG has aura of good and aura of law.
LN has aura of law.
LE has aura of evil and aura of law.
CG has aura of good and aura of chaos.
CN has aura of chaos.
CE has aura of evil and aura of chaos.
NG has aura of good.
NE has aura of evil.
TN has no aura, because if "At 1st level, a divine exemplar has auras of all his non-neutral alignment components, as a paladin of his level," and he has no non-neutral alignment components, he has no auras. I'm a bit startled since it seemed straightforward to me...
Great, that clears things up. Thanx!
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Great, that clears things up. Thanx!...No, it does not include 1st level (because it says "at each of these levels" i.e. 6, 12, 18).
Who gets what auras:
LG has aura of good and aura of law.
LN has aura of law.
LE has aura of evil and aura of law.
CG has aura of good and aura of chaos.
CN has aura of chaos.
CE has aura of evil and aura of chaos.
NG has aura of good.
NE has aura of evil.
TN has no aura, because if "At 1st level, a divine exemplar has auras of all his non-neutral alignment components, as a paladin of his level," and he has no non-neutral alignment components, he has no auras. I'm a bit startled since it seemed straightforward to me...
Has anyone worked on alchemist/druid yet? (Maybe call it Woodchemist or something like that). I'm imagining mixing mutagens with wild shape (probably sacrificing bombs)... :-D
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Has anyone worked on alchemist/druid yet? (Maybe call it Woodchemist or something like that). I'm imagining mixing mutagens with wild shape (probably sacrificing bombs)... :-DGreat, that clears things up. Thanx!...No, it does not include 1st level (because it says "at each of these levels" i.e. 6, 12, 18).
Who gets what auras:
LG has aura of good and aura of law.
LN has aura of law.
LE has aura of evil and aura of law.
CG has aura of good and aura of chaos.
CN has aura of chaos.
CE has aura of evil and aura of chaos.
NG has aura of good.
NE has aura of evil.
TN has no aura, because if "At 1st level, a divine exemplar has auras of all his non-neutral alignment components, as a paladin of his level," and he has no non-neutral alignment components, he has no auras. I'm a bit startled since it seemed straightforward to me...
Also, a friend of mine mentioned the idea of a Summoner/Fighter, so here's my take on that one:
Unlike most summoners, a martial conjurer trains his body and aids his eidolon in combat, and the pair of them become a force to be reckoned with.
Primary Class: Summoner
Secondary Class: Fighter
Hit Dice: d8
Save Bonus: +2 Fort
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The martial conjurer adds three fighter skills to his list of class skills.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Martial conjurers are proficient with all simple and martial weapons. They are proficient with light armor, and do not suffer an arcane spell failure chance when casting summoner spells. They are not proficient with medium or heavy armor or shields, all of which cause arcane spell failure chance as normal.
Weakened link (Su): The martial conjurer’s link with his eidolon is not as strong as other summoners, but this allows him to wear armor and use magic items that others may not be able to. He may wear light armor without disrupting the link to his eidolon. He and his eidolon may also wear magic items in the same slots. His eidolon still may not wear armor. This replaces Life Link at level 1.
Bonus Feats: At 1st, 2nd, 8th, 14th, and 16th levels a martial conjurer may choose a combat feat. This is identical to a fighter bonus feat. The martial conjurer’s effective fighter level for qualifying for feats is equal to ½ his martial conjurer level. This replaces Bond Senses, Transposition, Life Bond, and Merge Forms.
Weapon Training: Beginning at 5th level, the martial conjurer gains the fighter’s weapon training ability as a fighter of his level. This replaces the Summon Monster and Gate spell-like abilities.
Re: Martial Conjurer
- first thoughts: the very concept of a summoner who can fight better than a normal summoner bugs me. Especially since you're not nerfing his eidolon at all! So basically, the summoner's trading all his cool flavored abilities (transposition, summon monster) for the ability to have two bangers. ... imho, lame. Sorry.
- Weakened link? He can already wear light armor just fine. You're trading OUT a disability (life link puts limits on eidolon) in return for something he already has. But wait... he and the eidolon can wear full magic gear? :|
- Bonus Feats - I'd like these a lot more if they replaced, oh I don't know, the eidolon's feats or reduced its evolution pool or something.
- Weapon Training - I'm okay with this. Though I think I'd rather see him lose uses per day, or slow his progression, for not-quite-full weapon training, rather than a total trade. IDK.
Keep it up!
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Re: Martial Conjurer
- first thoughts: the very concept of a summoner who can fight better than a normal summoner bugs me. Especially since you're not nerfing his eidolon at all! So basically, the summoner's trading all his cool flavored abilities (transposition, summon monster) for the ability to have two bangers. ... imho, lame. Sorry.
- Weakened link? He can already wear light armor just fine. You're trading OUT a disability (life link puts limits on eidolon) in return for something he already has. But wait... he and the eidolon can wear full magic gear? :|
- Bonus Feats - I'd like these a lot more if they replaced, oh I don't know, the eidolon's feats or reduced its evolution pool or something.
- Weapon Training - I'm okay with this. Though I think I'd rather see him lose uses per day, or slow his progression, for not-quite-full weapon training, rather than a total trade. IDK.
Keep it up!
Whoa, you definitely have a point there, I totally forgot that Summoners can already wear light armor. I agree that I have to figure out how to nerf the eidolon a bit. And yeah, the full magic gear thing is too powerful too. I'll rework it.
A starting point might be to halve the eidolon's HD at every level (see master summoner). Good luck!
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A starting point might be to halve the eidolon's HD at every level (see master summoner). Good luck!
How about this?
Unlike most summoners, a martial conjurer trains his body and aids his eidolon in combat, and the pair of them become a force to be reckoned with.
Primary Class: Summoner
Secondary Class: Fighter
Hit Dice: d8
Save Bonus: +2 Fort
Bonus Skills and Ranks: The martial conjurer adds three fighter skills to his list of class skills.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Martial conjurers are proficient with all simple and martial weapons. They are proficient with light armor, and do not suffer an arcane spell failure chance when casting summoner spells. They are not proficient with medium or heavy armor or shields, all of which cause arcane spell failure chance as normal.
Bonus Feats: At 1st, 4th, 8th, 12th, and 16th levels a martial conjurer may choose a combat feat. This is identical to a fighter bonus feat. The martial conjurer’s effective fighter level for qualifying for feats is equal to ½ his martial conjurer level.
Weakened Eidolon: Because the martial conjurer must spend some time training himself in the art of battle, his eidolon is not as powerful as those of other summoners. His effective summoner level for determing all aspects of his eidolon is ¾ his martial conjurer level (minimum 1).
Weapon Training: Beginning at 5th level, the martial conjurer gains the fighter’s weapon training ability as a fighter of his level. This replaces the Summon Monster and Gate spell-like abilities.
This nerfs the eidolon without making it completely useless. Agreed?
Agreed. Still not getting the flavor. What's conjurer-y about him? His eidolon? I'd trade out spells before I trade out the summon monster abilities. I dunno. Seems the flavor is "two fighters."
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Agreed. Still not getting the flavor. What's conjurer-y about him? His eidolon? I'd trade out spells before I trade out the summon monster abilities. I dunno. Seems the flavor is "two fighters."
You're right, conjurer was just based on using thesaurus.com with summoner. Really the idea is being able to team up on an enemy with two fighters. I need to come up with a couple specific abilities to replace one or two of the summoner ones, I'll work on that for a bit now and we'll see what comes out of it. This one is more generic than some of the others though.
After I get this one worked out, I'll start on Alchemist/Druid. :-D
Ok. When I think 'martial conjurer' I think of something more like the synthesist—someone who summons aspects to himself to improve his own martial prowess. Maybe that's my disconnect...
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Agreed. Still not getting the flavor. What's conjurer-y about him? His eidolon? I'd trade out spells before I trade out the summon monster abilities. I dunno. Seems the flavor is "two fighters."
Here's one that I think fits the flavor of the Martial Summoner well:
Bonus Teamwork Feats: At 10th level and then again at 18th level, the martial conjurer chooses a teamwork feat. Both the martial conjurer and his eidolon gain that teamwork feat as a bonus feat. This replaces aspect and greater aspect.
Ok. When I think 'martial conjurer' I think of something more like the synthesist—someone who summons aspects to himself to improve his own martial prowess. Maybe that's my disconnect...
I'm sort of with Flak. When I think of a Summoner/Fighter, I'd almost see it as an "eidolon-esque" suit of armor he can summon and enhance like an eidolon. It'd be like using the Merge Form ability from 1st level, the "eidolon armor" wouldn't have HD, and would also lose some other things from the eidolon (I'd have to take a look and see what would and wouldn't remain, but then the evolutions (certain ones, not all) could be used to evolve the "armor". Just a thought. You'd have to find a good power/nerf balance though, 'cause fighter's are already deadly. I'd keep Summoner as the primary, then keep martial-based evolutions and likely create new ones.
Now I want to work on it...but too many others to do.
EDIT: BTW, what did people think of the Celestial Knight (I think I'm going to rename him the Angelic Knight)? Thoughts? Good things? Criticisms?
I'm kind of liking all this, so I thought I'd drop in and see if I could help out?
I got a few ideas- in the order I'd like to do them if there isn't one yet:
1. Witch/Druid, "Elder Sage" - A witch who relies on druidic powers. Probably get Wildshape to some weak level, along with the Plant domain spells?
2. Rogue/Magus, "Trick Blade" - A rogue who can give up Sneak Attack damage to cast touch spells in a way similar to spellstrike.
3. Magus/Ranger, "Arcane Hunter" - Basically spellstrike arrows, probably use ranger traps as well. They're weak enough to be latched on, if done carefully?
I'm kind of liking all this, so I thought I'd drop in and see if I could help out?
I got a few ideas- in the order I'd like to do them if there isn't one yet:
1. Witch/Druid, "Elder Sage" - A witch who relies on druidic powers. Probably get Wildshape to some weak level, along with the Plant domain spells?
2. Rogue/Magus, "Trick Blade" - A rogue who can give up Sneak Attack damage to cast touch spells in a way similar to spellstrike.
3. Magus/Ranger, "Arcane Hunter" - Basically spellstrike arrows, probably use ranger traps as well. They're weak enough to be latched on, if done carefully?
Welcome to the thread Raiderrpg, I think you are good to go. I don't recall any of the three you propose. Have a go!
Awesome! I'll try to have the 'Elder Sage' in a rough draft form this very weekend. I have the first five levels already planned out... >:3
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Ok. When I think 'martial conjurer' I think of something more like the synthesist—someone who summons aspects to himself to improve his own martial prowess. Maybe that's my disconnect...I'm sort of with Flak. When I think of a Summoner/Fighter, I'd almost see it as an "eidolon-esque" suit of armor he can summon and enhance like an eidolon. It'd be like using the Merge Form ability from 1st level, the "eidolon armor" wouldn't have HD, and would also lose some other things from the eidolon (I'd have to take a look and see what would and wouldn't remain, but then the evolutions (certain ones, not all) could be used to evolve the "armor". Just a thought. You'd have to find a good power/nerf balance though, 'cause fighter's are already deadly. I'd keep Summoner as the primary, then keep martial-based evolutions and likely create new ones.
Now I want to work on it...but too many others to do.
EDIT: BTW, what did people think of the Celestial Knight (I think I'm going to rename him the Angelic Knight)? Thoughts? Good things? Criticisms?
See, I feel like the Synthesist summoner archetype already covers that idea, so I was going for more of a teamwork-based idea. I'll keep thinking about it.
In other news, I wrote up an Alchemist(P)/Druid(S):
Wild Herbalists are the alchemists of the forest, mixing powerful drugs and potions using natural ingredients.
Primary Class: Alchmist
Secondary Class: Druid
Hit Dice: d8
Save Bonus: +2 Will
Bonus Skills and Ranks: Wild Herbalists may select three Druid skills to add to their class skills in addition to the normal Alchemist class skills.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Wild herbalists are proficient with all simple weapons and the scimitar and scythe, and with all natural attacks. They are proficient with light and medium armor, but may not wear metal armor or shield, as a druid. They are not proficient with shields. A Wild Herbalist who wears a prohibited armor or shield loses her mutation aspect ability while wearing it and for 24 hours afterward.
Natural Alchemy: A wild herbalist has learned to use herbs and venoms to create powerful effects and potions, but the destructive nature of bombs goes against her morality. This is identical to and replaces the Alchemist's alchemy ability, but it cannot be used to create bombs.
Wild Empathy: At first level a wild herbalist gains wild empathy as a druid. This replaces throw anything.
Mutation aspect: Beginning at first level, the wild herbalist becomes in tune with nature and can enhance her mutagen ability using power from nature. She gains the feral mutagen discovery. Beginning at 4th level, she may choose to use wild shape as a druid of her level whenever she uses a mutagen. Any bonuses to ability scores from the mutagen and the wild shape ability stack. The duration of wild shape is equal to the duration of the mutagen (normally ten minutes per wild herbalist level), and the number of times per day that wild shape may be used is the same as a druid of the same level. The effects of the feral mutagen discovery do not function while using wild shape, but continue to function when using a mutagen without wild shape. This ability replaces the alchemist's bomb class feature.
Discoveries: The following discoveries complement the wild herbalist archetype:
Concentrate poison*, Grand mutagen*, Greater mutagen*, Healing touch**, Infuse mutagen*, Spontaneous healing**, Sticky poison*, Wings**
(* denotes a discovery from the Advanced Players Guide, ** denotes a discovery from Ultimate Magic)
New Discoveries: In addition to the discoveries normally available to the alchemist, a wild herbalist may choose any of the following:
Aspect of the Beast: The wild herbalist gains the effects of the Aspect of the Beast feat (from the Advanced Players Guide). If she chooses claws, her claw natural attacks gained from the feral mutagen discovery deal damage as if she was one size category larger. She does not need to meet the prerequisites for the feat.
Animal Companion: A wild herbalist gains the nature bond druid ability but may only choose an animal companion (not a cleric domain). Her effective druid level is equal to her wild herbalist level -3 for any level-dependent effects (similar to a ranger). The wild herbalist must be at least 4th level to choose this discovery.
Mutate Companion: A wild herbalist's animal companion can sometimes be used as a guinea pig for experiments with new potions, and begins to show signs of this in its physical form. The companion gains two evolution points as if it were a summoner's eidolon, and can gain evolutions from the eidolon's list. These points may not be used to increase the companion's ability scores. This discovery may be chosen multiple times, each time the companion gains two more evolution points. Each time the wild herbalist gains a level, he may change the evolutions that his companion currently has. If the wild herbalist's companion dies or is replaced in some other way, the new companion does not gain the benefits of this ability for one week after entering the wild herbalist's service. The wild herbalist must be at least 8th level and have the Animal Companion discovery to choose this discovery.
Special: A wild herbalist may not choose discoveries that give her a familiar and an animal companion at the same time, and may not choose any discoveries that require the bomb class feature.
In other news, I wrote up an Alchemist(P)/Druid(S):
** spoiler omitted **...
I like it! Simple and straight forward, has flavor, good tweeks to the standard abilities, interesting additions too. Good job. I can't see anything too crazy or OP. Comments, anyone else?
Okay, Elder Sage rough draft. No real flavor yet, but the abilities and concept is there.
Intro: Being Written!
Concept: A wise sage of the woods, friend to fey and beast, but who chooses not to simply protect nature but to learn the very magic of the land.
Advantages/Disadvantages to straight Witch: Entangle Hex is -awesome- at low levels. Also, Leycast makes up for having less spells by making that all-important first cast of a combat that much more powerful.
Weapon Prof: Simple only.
Skills: Add three druid.
HD: d6
BAB: Half.
Save Bonus: +2 to Fort
Level: Special:
1 Nature Sense, Wild Empathy, Cantrips, Hex, Witch's Familiar
2 Woodland Stride, Hex
3 Trackless Step
4 Herb Lore, Hex
5 Wild Shape 1/day (Beast Shape I)
6 Resist Nature's Lure
7 Wild Shape 2/day (Beast Shape II)
8 Hex
9 Nature's Gift
10 Wild Shape 3/day, Hex
11 Leycast +1
12 Hex, Major Hex
13 Wild Shape 3/day (Plant Shape I)
14 Hex
15 Greater Herblore
16 Wild Shape 4/day
17 Hex
18 Leycast +2, Hex
19 Wild Shape 5/day (Plant Shape II)
20 Quick Leycast, Hex, Grand Hex
Spellcasting: Loses 1 spell per day from each spell level.
Hexes: An Elder Sage may select Entangle as a Hex. They may only have one Entangle effect active at any time.
Major Hexes: An Elder Sage may select Barkskin as a Major Hex. An individual may only benefit from this Hex once every 24 hours.
Grand Hexes: An Elder Sage may select Summon Nature's Ally V as a Greater Hex. they may only have one such effect active at any time.
Nature Sense: As Druid.
Wild Empathy: As Druid.
Woodland Stride: As Druid.
Herb Lore: +2 Profession (Herbalism) and Craft (Alchemy), also Eschew Materials in wooded areas.
Resist Nature's Lue: As Druid.
Nature's Gift: Add Summon Nature's Ally I-IX to your spell list.
Leycast: Spend one minute meditating in terrain to increase the caster level of your next spell cast there by 1, 2 at 7th level. A number of spells per day equal to your wisdom modifier may benefit from this ability. Leaving this terrain will cause you to lose this effect, even should you return to it before meditating again.
Greater Herblore: You may ignore components of 50 GP or less in cost, in a wooded area.
Quick Leycast: Once per day, you may prepare a Leycast with a full-round action.
Any changes need to be made? If not, I can flavor it up and have it finished tomorrow afternoon, time permitting.
In other news, I wrote up an Alchemist(P)/Druid(S):
** spoiler omitted **...
I like it. But two criticisms:
1. animal companion, even with -3 adjustment, is too good for a discovery. I would divide it into two (maybe one has 50% hit points, like the feathered companion of the falconer ranger [UC]; the other has full hit points). And then I think I would provide a third discovery to eliminate the level lag. Maybe animal companion lesser, animal companion, and animal companion greater. All three discoveries combined make an animal companion identical to a druid's (full level & HP). Thoughts? Also, how awesome would it be if the wild herbalist's animal companion counted as an alchemist for the purposes of consuming mutagens? ;) I would also give the wild herbalist free infuse extract&mutagen with regard to his animal companion.
2. rather that evolution points—'cause that's really weird, and I feel evolutions are seeing a bit too much love in this thread tbh—how about discoveries? Like the beastbonded witch. The way she can give her feats to her familiar. The wild herbalist, instead of taking a discovery, can select one discovery and apply it to his animal companion. The discovery would have to be something that doesn't affect bombs or extracts, but could be something like vestigial arm—allowing the animal companion to quaff potions & mutagens on his own, etc.
See, I feel like the Synthesist summoner archetype already covers that idea, so I was going for more of a teamwork-based idea. I'll keep thinking about it.
Ooh, ooh, I has idea!!!!!
Not to steal your thunder, bro. I'm gonna post something soon. Let's see how you feel about it.
@Elghinn: thoughts on my divine exemplar (possible name change divine champion) beyond the confusion over the aura ability? I don't want to call him "holy warrior" because he can also be very unholy, and he doesn't -need- to be a warrior... I dunno. Lemme know what, if anything, I should be changing! =)
Summoner/Fighter => Astral Captain.
Some summoners lean more toward a martial path. Amongst these, a more specialized group devotes extra time to bonding with a variety of extra-planar creatures, the better to cooperate with them in battle. These astral commanders eschew the summoner's usual eidolon companion in favor of extensive combat training with their extra-planar buddies. When the time is right, the astral captain can rally them to his cause and amass a small but powerful strike force.
Advancement Chart
1. Astral magic, bonus feat, buddy system, cantrips, diminished casting, summon monster I
2. Bonus feat, fighter training
3. Summon monster II, training
4. Bonus feat
5. Summon monster III, captain's grace
6. Bonus feat
7. Summon monster IV, medium armor
8. Bonus feat
9. Summon monster V, training
10. Bonus feat
11. Summon monster VI, improved teamwork
12. Bonus feat
13. Summon monster VII, heavy armor
14. Bonus feat
15. Summon monster VIII, training
16. Bonus feat
17. Summon monster IX, improved leadership
18. Bonus feat
19. Gate
20. Bonus feat, mastery
Primary Class: Summoner.
Secondary Class: Fighter.
Hit Dice: d8.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: An astral captain selects three fighter skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal summoner class skills. The astral captain gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 2 + Int.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Astral captains are proficient with all simple weapons. Astral captains are also proficient with light armor. An astral captain can cast bard spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, an astral captain wearing medium or heavy armor, or using a shield, incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. A multiclass astral captain still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane spells received from other classes.
Astral Magic: Instead of casting spells selected from the summoner's spell list, the astral captain casts conjuration and transmutation spells from the bard's spell list. He learns and casts these spells as normal; he simply uses the bard's conjuration and transmutation spells instead of the usual summoner spell list.
Bonus Feats: At 1st level, and at every even-numbered level thereafter, the astral captain receives a bonus feat. These bonus feats must be combat feats, teamwork feats, or Extra Summons. Alternatively, the astral captain may elect to gain one evolution point, as the summoner's eidolon's ability. Each time he does this, he may reconfigure his evolutions. At 1st level, the astral captain may only select 1-point evolutions. At 8th level, he can select 2-point evolutions. At 16th level, he can select 3-point evolutions. At 20th level, he can select 4-point evolutions. This ability replaces life link, bond senses, shield ally, maker's call, transposition, aspect, greater shield ally, life bond, merge forms, and greater aspect.
Buddy System (Ex): At 1st level, the astral captain selects one configuration of monsters summonable with his summon monster I spell-like ability. This configuration represents extraplanar friends and allies of the astral captain's. Every time he uses his summon monster ability or casts an appropriately-leveled summon monster spell, he may choose to summon these allies. Allies summoned in this way have all the teamwork feats the astral captain has. Whenever the astral captain accesses another level of his summon monster spell-like ability, he may select a configuration of allies for that level of summon monster. (For example, a 3rd-level astral captain could have a celestial dire rate ally [chosen at 1st level] and a fiendish hyena ally [chosen at 3rd level]). This ability replaces eidolon.
Diminished Spellcasting: An astral captain gains one fewer spell of each level than normal. If this reduces the number of spells at a certain level to 0, he may cast spells of that level only if he receives bonus spells of that level from having a high ability score.
Fighter Training (Ex): An astral captain counts 1/2 his total astral captain level as his fighter level for the purpose of qualifying for feats. If he has levels in fighter, these levels stack.
Training (Ex): At 3rd level, the astral captain receives either armor training 1 or weapon training 2, as the fighter class abilities. At 9th and 15th levels, the astral captain may select the other of these two options or he may advance training he already chose by 1 level. Every time the astral captain takes weapon training, in addition to the normal benefits, he receives proficiency with all martial weapons in the selected weapon group.
Captain's Grace (Ex): At 5th level, the astral captain receives a +1 bonus on Diplomacy, Intimidate, and opposed Charisma checks. These bonuses increase by +1 at 10th, 15th, and 20th levels.
Medium Armor (Ex): At 7th level, an astral captain gains proficiency with medium armor. He can cast bard spells while wearing medium armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance.
Improved Teamwork (Ex): At 11th level, whenever he receives a numeric bonus from a teamwork feat, the astral captain increases this bonus by +1. Any monsters he summons also receive this benefit.
Heavy Armor (Ex): At 13th level, an astral captain gains proficiency with heavy armor. He can cast bard spells while wearing heavy armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance.
Improved Leadership (Ex): At 17th level, an astral captain with the Leadership feat adds his captain's grace to his leadership score.
Mastery (Ex): At 20th level, an astral captain receives either armor mastery or weapon mastery, as the fighter abilities by the same names. This ability replaces twin eidolon.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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In other news, I wrote up an Alchemist(P)/Druid(S):
** spoiler omitted **...
I like it. But two criticisms:
1. animal companion, even with -3 adjustment, is too good for a discovery. I would divide it into two (maybe one has 50% hit points, like the feathered companion of the falconer ranger [UC]; the other has full hit points). And then I think I would provide a third discovery to eliminate the level lag. Maybe animal companion lesser, animal companion, and animal companion greater. All three discoveries combined make an animal companion identical to a druid's (full level & HP). Thoughts? Also, how awesome would it be if the wild herbalist's animal companion counted as an alchemist for the purposes of consuming mutagens? ;) I would also give the wild herbalist free infuse extract&mutagen with regard to his animal companion.
2. rather that evolution points—'cause that's really weird, and I feel evolutions are seeing a bit too much love in this thread tbh—how about discoveries? Like the beastbonded witch. The way she can give her feats to her familiar. The wild herbalist, instead of taking a discovery, can select one discovery and apply it to his animal companion. The discovery would have to be something that doesn't affect bombs or extracts, but could be something like vestigial arm—allowing the animal companion to quaff potions & mutagens on his own, etc.
I think the reason evolutions are seeing so much love is because it's a system that already exists which has a lot of options for non-humanoid characters. I'm personally a huge fan of them, which is why I have been using them in several of my builds. I appreciate the feedback, but I'm gonna keep that one as it is (plus Elghinn likes it, and he's the one with the pdf-ing talent lol)
As for the animal companion, you're right, I split it into three. I would imagine someone running a Wild Herbalist and either choosing to go down the path of evolutions (making their companion more grotesque and powerful with each discovery) or finishing the progression into a druid-level companion.
Here's the updated "New Discoveries" section:
New Discoveries: In addition to the discoveries normally available to the alchemist, a wild herbalist may choose any of the following:
Aspect of the Beast: The wild herbalist gains the effects of the Aspect of the Beast feat (from the Advanced Players Guide). If she chooses claws, her claw natural attacks gained from the feral mutagen discovery deal damage as if she was one size category larger. She does not need to meet the prerequisites for the feat.
Lesser Animal Companion: The wild herbalist gains the nature bond druid ability but may only choose an animal companion (not a cleric domain). Her effective druid level is equal 1/2 her wild herbalist level for any level-dependent effects. The wild herbalist must be at least 4th level to choose this discovery.
Improved Animal Companion: The wild herbalist's effective druid level is now equal to her wild herbalist level - 3 (as a ranger) for any level-dependent effects concerning her animal companion. The wild herbalist must be at least 8th level to choose this discovery.
Greater Animal Companion: The wild herbalist's effective druid level is now equal to her wild herbalist level for any level-dependent effects concerning her animal companion. The wild herbalist must be at least 12th level to choose this discovery.
Mutate Companion: A wild herbalist's animal companion can sometimes be used as a guinea pig for experiments with new potions, and begins to show signs of this in its physical form. The companion gains two evolution points as if it were a summoner's eidolon, and can gain evolutions from the eidolon's list. These points may not be used to increase the companion's ability scores. This discovery may be chosen multiple times, each time the companion gains two more evolution points. Each time the wild herbalist gains a level, he may change the evolutions that his companion currently has. If the wild herbalist's companion dies or is replaced in some other way, the new companion does not gain the benefits of this ability for one week after entering the wild herbalist's service. The wild herbalist must be at least 8th level and have the Lesser Animal Companion discovery to choose this discovery.
Yeah, I was mostly thinking, "there are alchemist things that could be applied!" ... wait. Why not do both?
Any thoughts on allowing the companion to benefit from extracts&mutagens?
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Summoner/Fighter => Astral Captain.
Some summoners lean more toward a martial path. Amongst these, a more specialized group devotes extra time to bonding with a variety of extra-planar creatures, the better to cooperate with them in battle. These astral commanders eschew the summoner's usual eidolon companion in favor of extensive combat training with their extra-planar buddies. When the time is right, the astral captain can rally them to his cause and amass a small but powerful strike force.
Advancement Chart
1. Astral magic, bonus feat, buddy system, cantrips, diminished casting, summon monster I
2. Bonus feat, fighter training
3. Summon monster II, training
4. Bonus feat
5. Summon monster III, captain's grace
6. Bonus feat
7. Summon monster IV, medium armor
8. Bonus feat
9. Summon monster V, training
10. Bonus feat
11. Summon monster VI, improved teamwork
12. Bonus feat
13. Summon monster VII, heavy armor
14. Bonus feat
15. Summon monster VIII, training
16. Bonus feat
17. Summon monster IX, improved leadership
18. Bonus feat
19. Gate
20. Bonus feat, masteryPrimary Class: Summoner.
Secondary Class: Fighter.
Hit Dice: d8.Bonus Skills and Ranks: An astral captain selects three fighter skills to add to his class skills in addition to the normal summoner class skills. The astral captain gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 2 + Int.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Astral captains are proficient with all simple weapons. Astral captains are also proficient with light armor. An astral captain can cast bard spells while wearing light armor without incurring the normal arcane spell failure chance. Like any other arcane spellcaster, an astral captain wearing medium or heavy armor, or using a shield, incurs a chance of arcane spell failure if the spell in question has a somatic component. A multiclass astral captain still incurs the normal arcane spell failure chance for arcane...
Just a couple quick critiques:
Primary Class: Summoner.
Secondary Class: Fighter.
Hit Dice: d8.
Also Save Bonus: +2 Fortitude
Improved Leadership (Ex): At 17th level, an astral captain with the Leadership feat adds his captain's grace to his leadership score.
"...adds his captain's grace bonus to his leadership score."
Also, why does he use the bard's list? Just because most of the summoner spells are eidolon-based?
Yeah, and for cure wounds. Thanks for the catches.
Anyway... thoughts? It's a teamwork-based summoner/fighter who doesn't have the stupidly strong eidolon on top of being a competent combatant. Your goal + my concern.
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Yeah, and for cure wounds. Thanks for the catches.
Anyway... thoughts? It's a teamwork-based summoner/fighter who doesn't have the stupidly strong eidolon on top of being a competent combatant. Your goal + my concern.
I think it's fine, though you could probably do the same thing with a bard as the base and just give him the summoning abilities. It's probably not something I would want to play because I have a feeling it would get complex (anytime you're summoning more than one creature it can get tedious) but yeah, it works.
How complex it is depends on how you want to play it... you don't need to summon multiple things at a time. I expect it'd be a lot simpler than playing two characters :P
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RPG Superstar 2014 Top 16
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Yeah, I was mostly thinking, "there are alchemist things that could be applied!" ... wait. Why not do both?
Any thoughts on allowing the companion to benefit from extracts&mutagens?
The only problem with letting the companion use mutagens is that a companion hardly needs the mental stats, so it takes away the penalty. I would definitely add something like this to the discoveries list though:
Share Extract: The wild herbalist may use an extract on his animal companion as if it were himself. The companion must still drink the extract to gain its effects, though the wild herbalist does not need to feed the companion the extract directly (For example, if the companion has the "arms" evolution, it may carry an extract and drink it whenever necessary). The wild herbalist must have the Lesser Animal Companion discovery to choose this discovery.
Cool beans!
@Elghinn: thoughts on my divine exemplar (possible name change divine champion) beyond the confusion over the aura ability? I don't want to call him "holy warrior" because he can also be very unholy, and he doesn't -need- to be a warrior... I dunno. Lemme know what, if anything, I should be changing! =)
You know, "Divine Exemplar" has sort of grown on me. He's a true example of a specific alignment; thus an exemplar.
I have to say I really like him. Your idea of granting all the deity's domain spells as part of his spell list is awesome (I stole a version of it for my Pal/Clr archetype I'm reworking). Here's a few sugestions which you can heed or disregard at your leisure.
First, what about this change to your "Aura" explanation. I think the wording is good, and I wanted to keep the True Neutral different from the rest, but keep some of the iconic alignment-related abilities for divne based lawful neutral and chaotic neutral classes.
Beginning at 6th level, and every six levels thereafter, the divine exemplar gains an additional aura effect, according to their alignment. At 6th level, a divine exemplar may choose either aura of courage (good) or aura of cowardice. Divine exemplars with either a lawful neutral or chaotic neutral alignment must select between the two auras, much like they must choose what type of energy they can channel. Once their choice is made it cannot be changed, and also determines what auras they can choose at higher levels. For example, a lawful neutral divine exemplar who selects aura of courage must choose his subsequent auras from those granted to the paladin. Should he choose aura of cowardice, he must choose from among those auras granted to the antipaladin. A divine exemplar cannot select opposing auras.
At 12th level, a divine exemplar may choose either aura of resolve/aura of despair, or aura of justice/aura of vengeance with the same restrictions. At 18th level, a divine exemplar may choose either aura of faith/sin or aura of righteousness/depravity, or any previously listed aura, with the same restrictions. A lawful neutral or chaotic neutral divine exemplar that chooses aura of faith or aura of sin gains either a lawful or chaotic aligned weapon according to their alignment. Subsequently, their aura of righteous/depravity provides either DR 5/chaos or DR 5/law respectively. A divine exemplar with a true neutral alignment does not gain one of the listed auras at 6th, 12th, and 18th level. Instead, they may select magic circle against chaos, magic circle against evil, magic circle against good, or magic circle against law at each interval. Each functions as a constant supernatural ability. The DC for this effect is equal to 10 + 1/2 the divine exemplar's level + the divine exemplar's Charisma bonus. This otherwise functions as, and replaces, the cleric's aura ability.
I assume that the channeling will work thusly?
If so then I would try to keep the other abilities in line with the choice made by the divine exemplar, as to the type of energy he chooses to channel. Thus the following suggested changes.
In this entry...
Conductive Weaponry (Su): At 14th level, a divine exemplar treats any magical melee weapon he wields as though it had the conductive* special ability. If he is proficient with unarmed strikes, he receives Domain Strike as a bonus feat. (*Advanced Player’s Guide)
...where is Domain Strike? Can't find it.
Maybe change "Divine Champion" to Divine PAragon" to keep in line with the "exemplar" idea?
That's all.
Like I said, I really like it. Good combo of cleric-paladin and new abilities unique to the archetpe.
NEXT:
1) Back to you, what do you think of the Celestial Knight (renamed Angelic Knight)?
2) I think there are starting to be a few too many new archetypes being posted without US (those on the thread) making sure those previously posted have been looked over and passed into the final document stage. I'm going to go through and see which ones still need to be finalized and post them.
Yeah, I was mostly thinking, "there are alchemist things that could be applied!" ... wait. Why not do both?
Any thoughts on allowing the companion to benefit from extracts&mutagens?
You can piggy-back on the "Share Spells" ability of the eidolon or familiar, and allow it to sharer the effects of extracts and mutagens?
EDIT: Nevermind, I see Cartmanbeck already suggested a very suitable solution.
Yeah, and for cure wounds. Thanks for the catches.
Anyway... thoughts? It's a teamwork-based summoner/fighter who doesn't have the stupidly strong eidolon on top of being a competent combatant. Your goal + my concern.
You know, there is nothing wrong with 1) rewriting his spell list, or 2)doing a group swap of spells, something like: The astral captain draws his spells from the summoner spell list, but replaces any eidolon-based spells with cure spells from the bard spell list.
I haven't taken a look at the whole archetype yet, but I'll throw in my 2 cp in a bit.
First, the simple one: Domain Strike is in Ultimate Combat. It allows you to use domain powers in conjunction with unarmed strikes.
Second, the name. If you're cool with it let's stick to Divine Exemplar.
auras
The auras are mostly good- or evil-themed. So I'm not sure why LN or CN should get them. I think LN and CN should get magic circle like TN.
healing/harming hands & mercies/cruelties
Your attempt at simplification of lay on hands/touch of corruption (and mercies/cruelties) unfortunately leaves out any mention of true neutral characters. I thought my wording was at least all-encompassing.
I actually took lay on hands/touch of corruption away from the neutral alignments after reading holy/unholy champion a second time. The healing/damage is very polar (good/evil) and while neutral clerics have traditionally had to decide whether to heal or harm I don't see why the neutral divine exemplar has to be _good_ at healing or harming. I see lay on hands/touch of corruption in this class as being a bonus for those DEDICATED to healing/harm. (i.e. it's the will of their god, and I don't see that being the case for CN for instance) So I gave neutrals versatile channeler, with a small bonus, and allowed them to apply mercies & cruelties to channeling, whereas the good&evil guys get mercies & cruelties with the amplified healing/harming of the touch attack.
smite
You're right that I forgot to account for CG and LE in my smite text. Ooops. Nice catch. Giving the TNs versatility is nice. One thing, though: according to Paizo's archetypes explanations, stating the exact level of the ability lost is proper form. I.e. "this replaces weapon training 2" — it's understood that that bumps down the progression. So my text of "This ability replaces orisons, channel energy 4d6, channel energy 7d6, and channel energy 10d6." is correct.
channel
I don't think you need that text at all. The ability doesn't change. I'm just replacing a few increments of it, which is text for smite. But yes, you're right about how it works! =)
FINALLY
One last thing... I made a booboo—evil divine exemplars with touch of corruption apply ONE cruelty of their choosing to their touch of corruption. Neutral divine exemplars channeling energy to harm select ONE cruelty and apply it to ONE enemy.
I'll rewrite stuff as necessary, so give me a quick OK on each of these items OR we can continue debating them.
Mostly I just don't think LN/CN chars should get too many good/evil goodies especially since it's more strongly about the alignment than a normal cleric.
===
as for the other stuff
Celestial Knight - have to admit, haven't read it. Too much summoner going on in my head these days. I'll take a look soon.
Too many new archetypes - eh. Material is material.
* Chris delvo's divine vessel seems nice (and is in good shape to add). His dread knight is alright (and in good shape) but I think someone complained about too many evil PC options.
* cartmanbeck and I have competing summoner/fighter multiclass archetypes lol. Read them both. I think that's the most contentious topic in here right now.
* cartmanbeck made a wild herbalist. (Alchemist/druid) Some things aren't all in the same post, like "share extract," but mostly I think it's just about good to go.
* Raiderrpg has some WIP on his elder sage but it's not complete yet.
* I'm done brewing new homes for a bit so I can help with consolidation/editing.
You know, there is nothing wrong with 1) rewriting his spell list, or 2)doing a group swap of spells, something like: The astral captain draws his spells from the summoner spell list, but replaces any eidolon-based spells with cure spells from the bard spell list.
Nothing wrong with it... but I think the way it is is fine, no? I feel my wording is simple enough and there isn't really any reason not to do it that way. He loses spells like dispel magic and mage armor, I guess, but he's less of a mage and more of a fighter anyway. I guess I should note that he keeps the summoner's full cantrips list. >_>
First, the simple one: Domain Strike is in Ultimate Combat. It allows you to use domain powers in conjunction with unarmed strikes.
Second, the name. If you're cool with it let's stick to Divine Exemplar.
auras
The auras are mostly good- or evil-themed. So I'm not sure why LN or CN should get them. I think LN and CN should get magic circle like TN.healing/harming hands & mercies/cruelties
Your attempt at simplification of lay on hands/touch of corruption (and mercies/cruelties) unfortunately leaves out any mention of true neutral characters. I thought my wording was at least all-encompassing.I actually took lay on hands/touch of corruption away from the neutral alignments after reading holy/unholy champion a second time. The healing/damage is very polar (good/evil) and while neutral clerics have traditionally had to decide whether to heal or harm I don't see why the neutral divine exemplar has to be _good_ at healing or harming. I see lay on hands/touch of corruption in this class as being a bonus for those DEDICATED to healing/harm. (i.e. it's the will of their god, and I don't see that being the case for CN for instance) So I gave neutrals versatile channeler, with a small bonus, and allowed them to apply mercies & cruelties to channeling, whereas the good&evil guys get mercies & cruelties with the amplified healing/harming of the touch attack.
smite
You're right that I forgot to account for CG and LE in my smite text. Ooops. Nice catch. Giving the TNs versatility is nice. One thing, though: according to Paizo's archetypes explanations, stating the exact level of the ability lost is proper form. I.e. "this replaces weapon training 2" — it's understood that that bumps down the progression. So my text of "This ability replaces orisons, channel energy 4d6, channel energy 7d6, and channel energy 10d6." is correct.channel
I don't think you need that text at all. The ability doesn't change. I'm just replacing a few increments of it, which is text for smite. But...
Alright, were good. I just wanted yto hear your reasoing for having the neutrals with their own things, and I'm good with that. I'm always interested in the "why" for things, I always did that as a DM. If you give me a good logical reason, then I'm usually OK with it. So, make your fixes and post your final version, then I'll add it to the final doc.
Nothing wrong with it... but I think the way it is is fine, no? I feel my wording is simple enough and there isn't really any reason not to do it that way. He loses spells like dispel magic and mage armor, I guess, but he's less of a mage and more of a fighter anyway. I guess I should note that he keeps the summoner's full cantrips list. >_>
You know, there is nothing wrong with 1) rewriting his spell list, or 2)doing a group swap of spells, something like: The astral captain draws his spells from the summoner spell list, but replaces any eidolon-based spells with cure spells from the bard spell list.
Sure. +1
And thanx for the update list:
* Chris delvo's divine vessel seems nice (and is in good shape to add). His dread knight is alright (and in good shape) but I think someone complained about too many evil PC options.
* cartmanbeck and I have competing summoner/fighter multiclass archetypes lol. Read them both. I think that's the most contentious topic in here right now.
* cartmanbeck made a wild herbalist. (Alchemist/druid) Some things aren't all in the same post, like "share extract," but mostly I think it's just about good to go.
* Raiderrpg has some WIP on his elder sage but it's not complete yet.
* I'm done brewing new homes for a bit so I can help with consolidation/editing.
We also have Bardess' Dead Shaman we're waiting for an updated version of.
Oh, also, durr, limiting his spell list is a nerf. I totally forgot that part of my reason. :P
Was hoping for some feedback here. Either way, I just ran a playtest with a level 1, 10, and 20 Elder sage today- (quick build, not optimal) and it seemed a little too strong compared to the Witch. I think I'm going to lessen the number of Hexes- make them at levels 1, 3, 6, 9, 12 (Major gained here), 15, and 18 (Grand gained here).
Gonna try and do a quick build run with that when I can.
Entangle Hex is, indeed, seeming to be nice and fun without being too crazy- with the lower number of spells they can't just sit back and let a summon monster do the work every time.
That said it's all my own playtest, so easily biased- I could really use a little feedback 'fore I make a finished-up-draft of this guy. :sweatdrop:
@Raiderrpg:
Don't get too frustrated if you don't get feedback immediately. With so many archetypes floating around (about 7 or 8 now) it may take some time. You will eventually get feedback as soon as people can post them. I'll be taking a look at yours next, but on a preliminary glance it looks pretty good. I'll get back to you.
@Flak:
Question: (probably a dumb one, but as a teacher, "There are no dumb questions!" :D)
Bonus Feats: ... Alternatively, the astral captain may elect to gain one evolution point, as the summoner's eidolon's ability. Each time he does this, he may reconfigure his evolutions. At 1st level, the astral captain may only select 1-point evolutions...
1) What is it he's evolving? Himself, or his summoned monsters?
2) So, with Buddy System, from my understanding, the astral captain summons the same creature(s) he chose to summon at each level of summon monster? For example, he summons a dire badger for summon monster II, thats what appears each time he summons creatures from the level 2 list of monsters? So it doesn't quite function like the summon monster spells, allowing the astral captain to become familiar/friendly with the creatures he summons. Sort of "summoned cohorts".
3) He can add his captain's grace to his Leadership score. Does he gain Leadership as a free feat? If so, it's not in the features or on the table.
Aside from those questions, I like it, and the flavor of a warrior who can summon his own army from nothingness. Kinda like Aragon in LOTR and the Ghosties he forces to fight for him.
@Cartmanbeck:
So, here's what I have as what seems to be the final version.
Wild herbalists are the alchemists of the forest, mixing powerful drugs and potions using natural ingredients.
Primary Class: Alchemist.
Secondary Class: Druid.
Hit Dice: d8.
Save Bonus: +2 Will.
Bonus Skills and Ranks: Wild herbalists may select three druid skills to add to their class skills in addition to the normal alchemist class skills. The wild herbalist gains a number of ranks at each level equal to 4 + Int.
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Wild herbalists are proficient with all simple weapons and the scimitar and scythe, and with all natural attacks. They are proficient with light and medium armor, but may not wear metal armor or shield, like a druid. They are not proficient with shields. A wild herbalist who wears a prohibited armor or shield loses her mutation aspect ability while wearing it and for 24 hours afterward.
Natural Alchemy: A wild herbalist has learned to use herbs and venoms to create powerful effects and potions, but the destructive nature of bombs goes against her morality. This is identical to and replaces the alchemist's alchemy ability, but it cannot be used to create bombs.
Wild Empathy: At 1st level, a wild herbalist gains wild empathy as a druid. This replaces throw anything.
Mutation Aspect: Beginning at 1st level, the wild herbalist becomes in tune with nature and can enhance her mutagen ability using power from nature. She gains the feral mutagen discovery. At 4th level, she may choose to use wild shape as a druid of her level whenever she uses a mutagen. Any bonuses to ability scores from the mutagen and the wild shape ability stack. The duration of wild shape is equal to the duration of the mutagen (normally ten minutes per wild herbalist level), and the number of times per day that wild shape may be used is the same as a druid of the same level. The effects of the feral mutagen discovery do not function while using wild shape, but continue to function when using a mutagen without wild shape. This ability replaces the alchemist's bomb class feature.
New Discoveries: In addition to the discoveries normally available to the alchemist, a wild herbalist may choose any of the following:
Aspect of the Beast: The wild herbalist gains the effects of the Aspect of the Beast* feat. If she chooses claws, her claw natural attacks gained from the feral mutagen discovery deal damage as if she was one size category larger. She does not need to meet the prerequisites for the feat. (*Advanced Players Guide)
Greater Animal Companion: The wild herbalist's effective druid level is now equal to her wild herbalist level for any level-dependent effects concerning her animal companion. The wild herbalist must be at least 12th level to choose this discovery.
Improved Animal Companion: The wild herbalist's effective druid level is now equal to her wild herbalist level –3 (as a ranger) for any level-dependent effects concerning her animal companion. The wild herbalist must be at least 8th level to choose this discovery.
Lesser Animal Companion: The wild herbalist gains the nature bond druid ability but may only choose an animal companion (not a cleric domain). Her effective druid level is equal 1/2 her wild herbalist level for any level-dependent effects. The wild herbalist must be at least 4th level to choose this discovery.
Mutate Companion: A wild herbalist's animal companion can sometimes be used as a guinea pig for experiments with new potions, and begins to show signs of this in its physical form. The companion gains two evolution points as if it were a summoner's eidolon, and can gain evolutions from the eidolon's list. These points may not be used to increase the companion's ability scores. This discovery may be chosen multiple times, each time the companion gains two more evolution points. Each time the wild herbalist gains a level, he may change the evolutions that his companion currently has. If the wild herbalist's companion dies or is replaced in some other way, the new companion does not gain the benefits of this ability for one week after entering the wild herbalist's service. The wild herbalist must be at least 8th level and have the Lesser Animal Companion discovery to choose this discovery.
Share Extract: The wild herbalist may use an extract on his animal companion as if it were himself. The companion must still drink the extract to gain its effects, though the wild herbalist does not need to feed the companion the extract directly (For example, if the companion has the "arms" evolution, it may carry an extract and drink it whenever necessary). The wild herbalist must have the Lesser Animal Companion discovery to choose this discovery.
Special: A wild herbalist may not choose discoveries that give her a familiar and an animal companion at the same time, and may not choose any discoveries that require the bomb class feature.
Discoveries: The following discoveries complement the wild herbalist archetype: concentrate poison*, grand mutagen*, greater mutagen*, healing touch**, infuse mutagen*, spontaneous healing**, sticky poison*, and wings**. (*Advanced Players Guide, **Ultimate Magic)
...I could really use a little feedback 'fore I make a finished-up-draft of this guy. :sweatdrop:
Took a good look at your Elder Sage, Raiderrpg. Looks pretty good. I would suggest the following changes, both with the advancement table (specifically when abilities are gained), and some changes with the actual class features.
Suggested New Advancement Table
1st Cantrips, diminished casting, hex, nature’s sense, wild empathy, witch’s familiar
2nd Woodland stride
3rd Herb lore
4th Hex
5th Trackless step
6th Hex
7th Wild shape 1/day (beast shape I)
8th Hex, resist nature’s lure
9th Lay cast +1
10th Improved herb lore
11th Wild shape 2/day (beast shape II)
12th Hex, major hex
13th Lay cast +2
14th Hex
15th Wild shape 3/day (plant shape I)
16th Hex
17th Greater herb lore
18th Quick lay cast
19th Wild shape 4/day (plant shape II)
20th Hex, grand hex
Suggested changes:
1) Remove your Nature’s Gift ability and simply add Summon Nature’s Ally I-IX, and all animal and plant domains spells to the witch's spell list
2) Leycast should be Laycast or Lay cast (I assume its reference to “Lay of the Land”, I prefer Lay cast)
3) Herbal Lore: +2 bonus on Profession (herbalism), Craft (alchemy), and Knowledge (nature) checks, Eshew Materials in forest terrain
4) add Improved Herbal Lore: +4 bonus on Profession (herbalism), Craft (alchemy), and Knowledge (nature) checks; Eschew Material now allows you to cast any spell with a material component costing 10 gp or less without needing that component.
5) Greater Herbal Lore: +6 bonus on Profession (herbalism), Craft (alchemy), and Knowledge (nature) checks; Eschew Material now allows you to cast any spell with a material component costing 50 gp or less without needing that component.
6) Grand Hexes: I would remove Summon Nature's Ally V as a Greater Hex, and swap it with Wall of Thorns. I think its much more in keeping with your entangle and barkskin hex additions.
leylines, actually :P And... hm. Good idea on the lore part.
I'm also thinking of an capstone letting them ignore physical aging penalties, to fit in with how old guys like these are in fantasy media.
I'll write it up proper in the mornin'- and see if I can find a good balance of hexes to stick to.
Thanks!